can you be normal and get the tao?

[mewtwo]

so can you be normal and get the tao or do you have to be kinda out there to get it? living beyond society so to speak.

[Stigweard]

Well seeing that Dao is to be found in every ordinary mundane moment of life then I say "YES".

 

After all, whats normal?

 

[Jetsun]

I think it was Jung who said something like "it's not a sign of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" . Most of the prophets and enlightened people tended to be rebels and went against the grain, so I think it's difficult to just be a normal guy and achieve the Tao without coming into conflict with society somewhat because so much within society is about doing the exact opposite of what you need to do to harmonise yourself.

[XieJia]

Just like what Stig and Jetsun said...

 

however i would like to write something here:

the ancient masters would smile if they were asked this question;

 

no, you can't be normal and GET the Dao.

 

and Yes, the Dao is with the every moment of all life. It encompass ten thousands things.

 

How could anyone say they get it!?

 

By acting accordingly to circumstances, one is with the great Dao; by imposing our wills, we swim against the current.

 

Like Stigweard said: What's normal? and like Jetsun said about society.

There's your normal, my normal, their normal? So many normals, so which one is normal?

[Birch]

Krishnamurti? Gopi Krishna? For the quote.

No one cannot IME be normal and be in harmony with Dao and society in its present phase "at large". Society is an imposition on people whereas Dao is not. Smart societies understand this stuff and so build in cultural safeties. I suppose you could DIY it. Better IMO just to find like-minded folks and stay away from cults:-)

[Jetsun]

I think the reason why the sangha or spiritual community is considered one of the jewels is so your new way of being which could be at odds with regular society can become "normal" within that group, so you join a tribe where it is normal to be in line with the Tao. Doing it on your own in society without a sangha means your up against all sorts of powerful pressures which may contradict your aim.

[Mal]

so can you be normal and get the tao or do you have to be kinda out there to get it? living beyond society so to speak.

 

I think you can be normal and get the tao, i.e. anyone can "do it"

 

But those that have the Tao IME are kinda out there compared to what the "normal" people do and what the normal people talk about.

 

e.g. it's normal to go outside and have a smoke during work. Go outside for the same amount of time and do standing post

[Birch]

I think the reason why the sangha or spiritual community is considered one of the jewels is so your new way of being which could be at odds with regular society can become "normal" within that group, so you join a tribe where it is normal to be in line with the Tao. Doing it on your own in society without a sangha means your up against all sorts of powerful pressures which may contradict your aim.

Not if you go ninja:-) Keep it on the DL:-)

Anyway, I'm glad of this forum. I couldn't talk with anyone else much about it. But I wouldn't join a tribe either.

Props to Mal for doing his standing post on a smoke break:-)

[Ambrose_Bierce]

Normal is a city in Illinois.

[Green Tiger]

I think it helps to be simple.

[lienshan]

to get the tao is to drop the tao both in a normal toilet and a stream beyond society

[Taiji Bum]

I think you can be normal and get the tao, i.e. anyone can "do it"

 

But those that have the Tao IME are kinda out there compared to what the "normal" people do and what the normal people talk about.

 

e.g. it's normal to go outside and have a smoke during work. Go outside for the same amount of time and do standing post

So true, Mal. I've had jobs where I would go outside on my breaks to practice taijiquan or stand post and crazy rumors were spread. The hospital that I work at now has a special place for meditation so doing taiji or post standing there is "normal" but when I worked at factories I was a freak of nature! I was eventually confronted by an angry mob (literally about 10 people) at one factory asking if I hated them for some reason or if I was too good to share a breakroom with them. Of course I invited them all to do taijiquan with me but I had no takers. Hahaha....

 

EDIT: And dont get me started about my family and why I am still single! Well mom... you see... I need to conserve Jing.....

Edited September 8, 2011 by Taiji Bum

[Sloppy Zhang]

You can be "normal" as far as society is concerned, and still "get" the tao.

 

In case you have any doubt about this, all you have to do is just start talking to "normal" people.

 

You'd be surprised how aware these people are. Of course, they won't use the terms that "taoists" use. They won't use any established philosophical rhetoric. Their views may be roundabout and unrefined. But if you let them explain themselves, you'll get that they are talking about the same things.

 

The thing is most times this doesn't come up in "normal" conversation. So you may need to be good at carrying on a conversation in order to get them to that space where they feel comfortable opening up. Sometimes it helps to be a stranger to them- they aren't afraid of you judging them, you don't know any of their friends, so it's not like word will get around that they were philosophizing about "weird" stuff earlier in the day.

 

I get that there are "outsiders", and I bet there are quite a few "outsiders" here. But I think it is an incredibly valuable spiritual exercise to act "normal", to become friends with people who are "normal", who have no conscious knowledge of the tao, who aren't spiritual, who are just living life to do whatever impermanent thing they want to do at the time (go to work, party, drink, fuck, watch tv, drive a nice car, etc etc etc). If you can't connect with a "normal" person, how the hell do you expect to connect with the rest of the universe?????

Edited September 8, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[GreytoWhite]

So true, Mal. I've had jobs where I would go outside on my breaks to practice taijiquan or stand post and crazy rumors were spread. The hospital that I work at now has a special place for meditation so doing taiji or post standing there is "normal" but when I worked at factories I was a freak of nature! I was eventually confronted by an angry mob (literally about 10 people) at one factory asking if I hated them for some reason or if I was too good to share a breakroom with them. Of course I invited them all to do taijiquan with me but I had no takers. Hahaha....

 

EDIT: And dont get me started about my family and why I am still single! Well mom... you see... I need to conserve Jing.....

 

My coworkers got pretty scared when this short White guy got to the Buddha's Warrior Attendant Pounding Mortar part of the form. Apparently the stomp was forceful and they thought I'd hurt myself when I started moving slowly again.

 

I don't think it's possible to be considered normal when striving for the Dao. Luckily I have some good friends who don't judge or are have their own path.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Anyone and everyoen can "get" the Tao. But it takes practice and Zen to BE the tao. Once you "get" it, you must then let go of it before you can be it.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Assuming you mean "one with the Tao"

 

I think it needs to be said that there is more than one type of being "one with the Tao." There is the more ordinary kind, as written about by Chuang Tzu, when you have shed your social conditioning and live from your center.

 

The other type is the more esoteric type which requires initiation, and fasting without food or water for weeks while in meditation the entire time.

 

I'd say a normal person can get to the first type, but normal people need to eat and drink and walk around, so, I'd say it's a pretty obvious no for the second type..

[thelerner]

You could be part of society and not buy into so much of its bull shit. Realize you have some middle ground in common. I think crazy often has more to do with Where and When you do things, then what you do.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

You could be part of society and not buy into so much of its bull shit. Realize you have some middle ground in common. I think crazy often has more to do with Where and When you do things, then what you do.

 

There is a good crossover Egyptian quote that speaks to that: "the wise know and act in the rhythm of their time"

 

This doesn't mean to jump every time society says so, but to be in rhythm. I forget which Afrocentric poet said: "we're not ON time, we're IN time."

 

Another saying for African drummers "mistakes, falling out of time, can be forgiven, but not listening cannot." You can do all kinds of things without causing a musical train wreck as long as you're listening properly to the rhythm.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[corbin]

I think if a person truly walks in harmony with the Tao, there will be many people who will think you are not normal, but is that really a bad thing?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

To walk in harmony with the Tao, first try to walk in harmony with the true being of self, the whole of your being.

 

What more is in need to be in harmony with the Tao?

 

You might simply be in harmony by pushing paper behind an office desk job or by bullshitting with one of the local homeless.

 

Your harmony is the "path of least resistence".

[thelerner]

Is it normal how we live now?

I have a plaque on my night stand that says 'Masquerading as a normal person, day after day, is exhausting.

 

There are times I feel that way. I look, live and play pretty normal, so its nice to let down my hair at Burning Man events, Midnight meditation groups, even my writing group has wild improv moments.

 

I don't think its about being 'normal', but we do need to live and thrive where we are or look for another place.

 

Thriving where one is, may be the top Taoist art.

[corbin]

For me, being in harmony with the Tao, and finding my true self is a very personal thing, and may be not be the same as others, this is why some people may feel I am not normal when I find my path. People tend to want to have everyone believe the exact why they do, and if you do not, then you will be labeled non normal by them.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

People tend to want to have everyone believe the exact why they do, and if you do not, then you will be labeled non normal by them.

 

 

Which makes no-one normal!

[corbin]

Very true Tao Master:)