tao te ching in original chinese translate directly to english?

[Jeff]

This is not a grammar lesson but only mentioned to tell, that Laozi's 'subjective' and 'objective'

were closely connected to the classical language itself. It was changed after 221 BC and the the two

Mawangdui versions were written in a reformed language and the Received version in another language!

 

An excellent point. A translation of a translation into English... True meaning can be easily lost without the correct context.

 

Anyone know of a English translation by a "realized" Taoist Master?

 

[dawei]

Anyone know of a English translation by a "realized" Taoist Master?

Did you see the three I posted here?

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/20491-ttc-study-chapter-68-of-the-tao-teh-ching/page__view__findpost__p__291193

 

Ni is online here: (Scroll down and then click on Ni)

http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/TTK/_IndexTTK.html

 

Flowing Hands can be downloaded here: (his website)

http://www.life-in-crisis.info/dao-de-jhing.pdf

 

Liao has a book here: (Amazon)

http://www.amazon.com/Nine-Nights-Taoist-Master-Deluxe/dp/0976545403/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315840144&sr=8-1

Edited September 12, 2011 by dawei

[XieJia]

What's forever enough: Sufficient knowledge is enough!

to know enough its to be enough this always enough indeed

知足之为足，此恒足矣。

 

Knowing enough is doing enough, this is ever enough!

 

In my opinion, zhi is indeed what you stated.

I believe what is state here is the zhi zu is the subjective form of wei zu.

Elaborating further Know Enough is the subjective, do enough is the objective.

The chapter goes in form of stating the objective and then the subjective; the last one is the subjective and then objective.

 

I understood your point about comparing the different scripts.

 

P.S. Where did you get the Chinese text for the Great One and Water?

 

@dawei

Cheers!!

Edited September 12, 2011 by XieJia

[dawei]

P.S. Where did you get the Chinese text for the Great One and Water?

Not sure where he gets his, but this is the source of the text we are using in the Subforum Thread I started on The Water Book:

http://www.tao-te-king.org/taiyi_shengshui.htm

Edited September 12, 2011 by dawei

[lienshan]

知足之为足，此恒足矣。

 

Knowing enough is doing enough, this is ever enough!

足之 meaning 'enough made' is maybe the correct translation leading to:

 

Knowledge enough-made (subject) does (verb) enough (object)

 

Written classical chinese was a language with a very strange grammar. No wonder that it was modernized.

Even the most highranking chinese scholars disagree about how to read and understand the ancient texts.

 

P.S. Where did you get the Chinese text for the Great One and Water?

TaiYiShengShui and Sarah Allan's comments to TaiYiShengShui

 

PS. I'm more and more convinced, that all the TaiYiShengShui text is in fact three unknown Laozi chapters?

[ChiDragon]

知足之为足，此恒足矣。

 

Knowing it's enough is enough, then it is always enough.

[Jeff]

Did you see the three I posted here?

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/20491-ttc-study-chapter-68-of-the-tao-teh-ching/page__view__findpost__p__291193

 

Ni is online here: (Scroll down and then click on Ni)

http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/TTK/_IndexTTK.html

 

Flowing Hands can be downloaded here: (his website)

http://www.life-in-crisis.info/dao-de-jhing.pdf

 

Liao has a book here: (Amazon)

http://www.amazon.com/Nine-Nights-Taoist-Master-Deluxe/dp/0976545403/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315840144&sr=8-1

 

Thanks.

 

[lienshan]

Knowing enough is doing enough, this is ever enough!

Knowing it's enough is enough, then it is always enough.

知足之為足 此恒足矣

 

The second part is easy; it's the first part of the line, that causes troubles.

The line contains the same structure as the opening line of chapter 2:

 

天下皆 知美之為美 也 惡已

 

When everyone in the world knows the beautiful as beautiful, ugliness comes into being. (Henricks)

 

Both 美 'beautiful' and 足 'enough' are adjectives.

 

 

I think that mewtwo begins to realize why his wish with this thread is so hard to fullfill

[XieJia]

天下皆 知美之為美 也 惡已

 

When everyone in the world knows the beautiful as beautiful, ugliness comes into being. (Henricks)

 

Both 美 'beautiful' and 足 'enough' are adjectives.

I think that mewtwo begins to realize why his wish with this thread is so hard to fullfill

Indeed true and ever so true; however I also like ChiDragon's translation of last part of 46.

 

When All under Heaven knows the being of beauty of the beautiful; ugliness's there already.

 

With the analogy of stepping forward, the world moves backwards; does it not?

So I would think the two comes into being simutaneously.

 

However, the Ancient Chinese Language with things deriving from symbology.

The Beautiful and the Enough and any other can also be view as pure nouns.

We think we can see this from further, examing the remainder of chapter 2.

This is to view it from the multifold functions; all are adjectives when discribing One.

 

@Lienshan do you think there's a possiblity that the original LaoZi doesn't have all the chapters that we thought the DDJ to have?

Edited September 13, 2011 by XieJia

[lienshan]

@Lienshan do you think there's a possiblity that the original LaoZi

doesn't have all the chapters that we thought the DDJ to have?

28 bamboo slips of the Guodian Tao Teh Ching bundle C was not bound together when exavacated. The bundle C contains six separate bamboo slips, which the non-taoist scholars have placed behind the socalled 'TaiYiShengShui' text, because they are not included in the other versions of Tao Teh Ching. But these six bamboo slips could as well originally have been in the front of the bundle C ... is the text written on these six bamboo slips written by Laozi?

 

bamboo slip 9

Heaven and Dao value what's completed of weakness and naiveness by benefitting what's giving birth.

To appreciate the hard of stabbing the strong is like

to profit the soft of assisting the weak.

 

bamboo slips 10 to 14

Below the soil is similar to the word earth.

Above the air is similar to the word heaven.

Dao is also their character; Early Dawn is their name.

Why Dao follows what's duty surely rely on their name.

Therefore is the duty completed and itself prolonged.

That the sage follows duty does also rely on their name.

Therefore is the merit completed and himself not boned.

Heaven and earth are nominated side by side independently.

Therefore perform their two boats in line not cultivated together.

To administer heaven isn't enough because:

The lowest height of west and north acts powerful.

Earth and heaven are not enough:

The highest low of east and south acts powerful.

The moreover surplus from the lowest of the not enough from what's highest is like

the moreover surplus from the highest of the not enough from what's lowest.

 

What strikes me when translating is the structure of the two end-lines: B of A is like D of C.

That's Laozi's favourite arguementation formula, that he used in many of his Tao Teh Ching chapters.

[XieJia]

 

bamboo slip 9

Heaven and Dao value what's completed of weakness and naiveness by benefitting what's giving birth.

To appreciate the hard of stabbing the strong is like

to profit the soft of assisting the weak.

 

bamboo slips 10 to 14

Below the soil is similar to the word earth.

Above the air is similar to the word heaven.

Dao is also their character; Early Dawn is their name.

Why Dao follows what's duty surely rely on their name.

Therefore is the duty completed and itself prolonged.

That the sage follows duty does also rely on their name.

Therefore is the merit completed and himself not boned.

Heaven and earth are nominated side by side independently.

Therefore perform their two boats in line not cultivated together.

To administer heaven isn't enough because:

The lowest height of west and north acts powerful.

Earth and heaven are not enough:

The highest low of east and south acts powerful.

The moreover surplus from the lowest of the not enough from what's highest is like

the moreover surplus from the highest of the not enough from what's lowest.

 

Bravo! let me look at the Chinese text and lets share opinions; maybe somewhere outside this thread?