Yogani On Adyashanti

[sean]

Via AYP Forums

 

Hi Kirtanman:

 

Yes, I agree that the process of enlightenment is the same everywhere, determined by the inherent capabilities in the human nervous system, rather than by any particular approach.

 

Of course, different approaches may "bring it on" in different orders of manifestation (some easier to traverse than others), but eventually all the steps have to be gone through, leading to the integration of inner silence and ecstatic energy awakening we talk about so much here.

 

Your comments on Adyashanti point to the presence of an energy awakening in conjunction with the rise of stillness/Oneness/no-thingness. Not having traveled the Zen path, I can't offer further corroboration, but do find a kinship and loving affection for his condition. I believe we stand on the threshold of many thousands entering this same condition. Won't that be something?

 

I'm currently finishing up the next AYP Enlightenment Series book on Asanas, Mudras, Bandhas & Kundalini, and have been describing all of this from the other side this time around -- weaving physical methods into an overall routine centered on sitting practices, including spinal breathing, deep meditation, samyama, etc. And then looking at the energy awakening from the neurobiological side, and tracing it back into the emergence of Oneness/Unity. Hopefully this will be helpful to the many out there these days practicing mainly physical yoga.

 

No matter what our path, "experiences" will be a two-edged sword. To move forward we will have them. Yet, to engage in experiences as "the enlightenment" at the expense of our practices will tend to stall our progress. Spiritual progress does not come from experiences. It comes from practices reaching beyond experiences. A very important point that is not lost on the Zen folks, or on anyone who is engaged in effective spiritual practices.

 

Paradoxically, enlightenment is not an experience. It is becoming that which is beyond all experience, and thereby becoming the experience itself, which then manifests as outpouring divine love in the world.

 

The different traditions deal with the inevitable rise of energy experiences in different ways. How they deal with this phenomenon has a large impact on how successful they may be in shepherding folks on through to enlightenment.

 

Unlike the few people who come into this life more or less ready for enlightenment (I agree with you on that, Weaver), many of us may have a longer road to travel with energy experiences associated with the purification and opening occurring in our nervous system. So it is good if we can understand what these experiences are ("scenery") so we can stay the course, preferably while enjoying ourselves along the way. Ultimately, experiences are transcended, and integrated into the divine purpose, which is stillness in action.

 

This is what we see in realized people from any tradition. Bring them on!

 

The guru is in you.

[cloud recluse]

Sean,wernt you attending some kind of Adya gig a little while back ? What was your experience of him ?

[sean]

Sean,wernt you attending some kind of Adya gig a little while back ? What was your experience of him ?

Not to sound pretentious I hope, but I've found it difficult and even counterproductive to talk about my experiences with Adyashanti. I will say that he is one of my primary teachers along with Yogani. You're into him too aren't you?

[cloud recluse]

No,Sean,its NOT pretentious ,its perfectly reasonable

 

And Yes,I am definetly into him.

 

Of all the 'nondual' gurus around,hes the only one so-far whose word I accept without reservation.The others give me pause,but in both his writing,& in what little I get to see of him from the video clips on his site,and the Spontaneous Awakening cd set,the guy really seems effortlessly genuine.

 

Its not just that hes clarified a few ideas in my head for me ( though he has certainly done that in a rather crucial way for me ) ,but his whole demeanour strikes me.I mean,I cant REALLY tell,Ive never met him,all my impressions are necesarily 'second-hand',but I get this compelling vibe of an effortless composure alongside a real,unrestricted humanity.

 

And the thing is,Im not really much of a 'guru freak'! If anything,Im far TOO critical of gurus & VERY high in my expecations of them.Theres no 'eager belief' about me in that respect.But as soon as I encountered the guy,Ive been quite taken with him.

 

Of course,the downside there is that he doesnt seem to tour much downunder

 

Youve described him as one of your primary teachers.Well,im starting to feel more than a little inclined that way myself.

 

Regards,Cloud

[Cameron]

I feel the same way as Sean. Sort of reluctant to even give opinions on him and conceptualize what exactly it is he is teaching.

 

But I think he's worth checking out. Sean and I are going to another 2 day intensive with him in November and have talked about maybe doing a retreat.

 

I have been gravitating more towards Michael Winn Alchemy stuff and don't know how the two approaches will go together.

 

Michael I think has been sort of critical of the Bodri/Adyashanti approach of sit and do nothing or don't maniupluate but Adya doesn't really polarize the issue the way Bodri does.

 

I-think-what Adya is saying is when you deeply trust and allow your experience to be what it is the natural enlightened mind becomes apparent on its own. But he doesn't say you shouldnt ever do mind directed meditations just include the yin/allowing aspect.

 

The thing is I think Winn has been saying something similar with Shen theory all along and those practices are very compelling to me but uses a different languange.

 

When Winn says allow your shen to join or copulate in the tan tiens that is a similar mind set as Adya saying just sit and allow. But Adya doesn't study Alchemy or ateast doesn't use Taoist languange(Tan Tiens, 5 elements/shen, 3 treasures etc.)

 

I think its an interesting journey with these different teachers and pretty much have the attitide of let me just study for 10 years before having lots of opinions about what is good, bad, right or wrong about any of them or any approaches.

 

Basically, shut up and practice for awhile.

 

And smile

[cloud recluse]

Sean & Cameron

 

I want to run an idea past the both of you,as its something Ive been 'inspired' to think from Adyas material,in relation to the purification of the nervous system re Yogani & other yogis.

 

My understanding (& at this point I fully admit its only an intellectual understanding) is that after Enlightenment,there will come a phase where all the material you have repressed,avoided or simply not encountered yet will come rushing into the light of your Awareness,the Light that is now You.Basically,after the fascination with your newfound freedom has worn off,Life reasserts itself,or becomes necessary to reengage if your want vitality to be part of your ongoing Enlightenment.

 

Something like that.So Enlightenment isnt the "End",but it is the pivotal dropping away of some really tiresome baggage

 

Sooner or later,You would have to re-engage Life,as Enlightenment has permanently destabilised your avoidance mechanism,cut it off at its roots.Now your in Full Contact,like it or not

 

Isnt it possible that the yogic purification,as well as your general willingness to engage life,that youve established PRIOR to Enlightenment ( IF youve done so) would also smooth out the post -Enlightenment reintergartion of Living?

 

So although those yogas are not Enlightenment themselves,and could actually become a distraction from Enlightenment if you thought you could "get" Enlightenment through your efforts in those yogas,properly done they may establish a response to daily life,a "Habit" if you will,of embodiment & embrace.

 

So you come to Enlightenment with an allready established habit of embodiment,ready & waiting to kick in when Enlightenment takes the lid off all your avoided material.

 

So material like Yoganis would give you the Habit of Embodiment to bring to Enlightenment,and make the transition to Enlightened living a lot smoother,the transition to Enlightened Love,Loving Actions a lot quicker.

 

Being an organic "habit",its not like a concept that your trying to impose on Enlightenment,& thus obscure it.Rather,yoga has given you a deep skill of embodiment.Its habituated you to embrace instead of avoidance.

 

I mean,"Yoga",to me,when its healthy,is just real life,real living anyhow.Full contact living.Enlightenment then would destabilise the main impediment to that Living,and really release you into full embodiment.

 

Perhaps ?

 

Anyhow,what do you think?

 

Regards,Cloud

[Cameron]

Sean & Cameron

 

I want to run an idea past the both of you,as its something Ive been 'inspired' to think from Adyas material,in relation to the purification of the nervous system re Yogani & other yogis.

 

My understanding (& at this point I fully admit its only an intellectual understanding) is that after Enlightenment,there will come a phase where all the material you have repressed,avoided or simply not encountered yet will come rushing into the light of your Awareness,the Light that is now You.Basically,after the fascination with your newfound freedom has worn off,Life reasserts itself,or becomes necessary to reengage if your want vitality to be part of your ongoing Enlightenment.

 

Something like that.So Enlightenment isnt the "End",but it is the pivotal dropping away of some really tiresome baggage

 

Sooner or later,You would have to re-engage Life,as Enlightenment has permanently destabilised your avoidance mechanism,cut it off at its roots.Now your in Full Contact,like it or not

 

Isnt it possible that the yogic purification,as well as your general willingness to engage life,that youve established PRIOR to Enlightenment ( IF youve done so) would also smooth out the post -Enlightenment reintergartion of Living?

 

So although those yogas are not Enlightenment themselves,and could actually become a distraction from Enlightenment if you thought you could "get" Enlightenment through your efforts in those yogas,properly done they may establish a response to daily life,a "Habit" if you will,of embodiment & embrace.

 

So you come to Enlightenment with an allready established habit of embodiment,ready & waiting to kick in when Enlightenment takes the lid off all your avoided material.

 

So material like Yoganis would give you the Habit of Embodiment to bring to Enlightenment,and make the transition to Enlightened living a lot smoother,the transition to Enlightened Love,Loving Actions a lot quicker.

 

Being an organic "habit",its not like a concept that your trying to impose on Enlightenment,& thus obscure it.Rather,yoga has given you a deep skill of embodiment.Its habituated you to embrace instead of avoidance.

 

I mean,"Yoga",to me,when its healthy,is just real life,real living anyhow.Full contact living.Enlightenment then would destabilise the main impediment to that Living,and really release you into full embodiment.

 

Perhaps ?

 

Anyhow,what do you think?

 

Regards,Cloud

 

I havent done much yoga or AYP, mostly qigong. I consider myself a beginner of the different paths I follow and not really in a position to comment how enlightenment may or may not change or be a complement to other practices.

 

Have you checked out this Sailor Bob guy in Melbourne? Someone from my Adyashanti group mentioned him. I think he is supposed to be 'awake'.

 

Better to direct questions to really, really qualified people I think.

 

But I imagine the short answer would be "yes".

[sean]

Isnt it possible that the yogic purification,as well as your general willingness to engage life,that youve established PRIOR to Enlightenment ( IF youve done so) would also smooth out the post -Enlightenment reintergartion of Living?

I hope so!! I really do. I've read a little too much St John of the Cross for my own good and so I have this nagging fear that a tragically lonesome dark night is a prereq. to awakening. If it is, so be it. I'll take it like a man as best I can. But my hope is that the various Yogic practices do help refine and purify a vehicle more resonant with and more suited to embodying Enlightenment. Then maybe the post-awakening blues are not experienced quite so morbidly. Or maybe you can even just expand in bliss until "you" dissolve! That'd be sweet. Uggh... I dunno... what the hell do I know anyway?

[Yoda]

St John of the Cross came out of a very dark time and it took more of a quantum leap to let go of shit back then, imo. Nobody had full body squirters back then, he didn't have access to sensible methods, nice blenders, etc, etc, he was a total freak blasting his way through rock and steel with just raw desire as his explosives.

 

Very few made the trip and the few that did had to be half psycho in the first place.

[sean]

St John of the Cross came out of a very dark time and it took more of a quantum leap to let go of shit back then, imo. Nobody had full body squirters back then, he didn't have access to sensible methods, nice blenders, etc, etc, he was a total freak blasting his way through rock and steel with just raw desire as his explosives.

 

Very few made the trip and the few that did had to be half psycho in the first place.

I really prefer this view. I was raised Catholic though and I'm an Enneagram Four to make matters worse so I have this hard to shake sense that I am entitled to at least a partially tragic worldview.

[Yoda]

I like to think that nice things like squirtology is what the Catholic Church was really trying to articulate all this time. The priest flicking holy water over the congregation is symbolic of that. Possibly.

 

In the Secrets of Wilder you get the sense of what it could be like for a brilliant do-it-yourselfer reinventing the process and the real likelihood of overdoing it. It could really suck. Yogani did say in a recent post, "in my long and not always happy journey through life..." I got the vibe there that he got stuck in the mud a bit back in the day.

 

It seems to me that with enough wisdom, life can't really be tragic anymore no matter what happens.

[cloud recluse]

I hope so!! I really do. I've read a little too much St John of the Cross for my own good and so I have this nagging fear that a tragically lonesome dark night is a prereq. to awakening.

 

Actually,Ive been thinking about my use of the word "purification",and it occurs to me that one thing I really luv from Yogani is his term "Ecstatic Conductivity".So we are "purified" ( a somewhat grim,ascetic term) by Ecstasy.We dont mortify our desires,rather we satisfy them with a subtler ecstasy.Desire meeting a

real fullfillment,or at least finding a worthy goal,in the bodies ecstatic core,then expanding out to external phenomena.

 

NOW THATS MY IDEA OF A GOOD PURIFICATION!!!!!!

 

And as for Enlightenment,Im going to take Adya's word for it that you dont HAVE to be broken unless you MAKE youself a tough nut to crack.I think thats one of the really important things I get from the Spontaneous Awakening cd's.

 

I think Yoda's right in that St John was a bit hampered when it came to avavilable techniques,& the Catholic trip was probably a lot less diluted that it is now,so intuiting his way to Ecstatic Conductivity was never going to be straightforward.

 

Regards,Cloud

 

 

p.s. The ironic thing here is that Spinal Breathing still gives me a headache

Edited October 5, 2006 by cloud recluse

[sunshine]

 

p.s. The ironic thing here is that Spinal Breathing still gives me a headache

 

Check your breathing!?!

 

Harry

[Yoda]

Cloud,

 

If spinal breathing gives you a headache, Yogani suggests stripper pee. St. John of the Cross missed out on that trick!!

 

This is important though... there's got to be a workaround here somewhere. If it's too much oxygen, the cure might be to pause a bit on the exhale.

 

If it's on an energy level, maybe do spinal breathing to the heart with just some breaths to the forehead.

 

Maybe try stretching before spinal breathing.

 

Maybe post a question on the ayp forum or e-mail Yogani.

 

Worse case scenario, you are very sensitive to the practice which Yogani says is ultimately a very good sign but you just have to go very slowly with it.

 

-Yoda

[cloud recluse]

Cloud,

 

If spinal breathing gives you a headache, Yogani suggests stripper pee...

 

I cant actually afford any right now

 

... there's got to be a workaround here somewhere. If it's too much oxygen, the cure might be to pause a bit on the exhale.

 

If it's on an energy level, maybe do spinal breathing to the heart with just some breaths to the forehead.

 

Maybe try stretching before spinal breathing.

 

Maybe post a question on the ayp forum or e-mail Yogani.

 

Worse case scenario, you are very sensitive to the practice which Yogani says is ultimately a very good sign but you just have to go very slowly with it.

 

-Yoda

 

This all sound viable to me,thanx Yoda

 

Initially,I just backed off & concentrated on trying to increase the depth of my meditaion,figuring that it wasnt deep enough to comfortably accomadate amplified energies.But my breif dabbling in spinal breathing does seem to have uncovered/trigered a complex of stresses that I ahd always suspected were there.Im actually considering some therapeutic massage options first.Then come back to spinal breathing after a good de-bugging

 

Regards,Cloud

[cloud recluse]

After 24 hours of pounding headache,I went to my Tai Ji teacher for TCM diagnosis,cupping & massage.Apparently,things are a bit wobbly & theres a bit of therapeutic work to be done before I start messing about alchemically.But one session has allready soothed things a bit.

 

But heres a Yogani-Adya question on another matter.Ive been quite taken by Adyas Listening Without Manipulation,whereas Yoganis meditation is mantra orientated.Is anyone experienced on 'combining' both?

 

The reason why I ask is that I would really like to get more into Yoganis material at some point.I think perhaps simply because Im just so impressed by the clarity & internal consistency of his presentation.So I dont want to be tinkering with the strength of the forms he presents.But neither do I want to relinquish the formlessness of Adya.

 

What do people think about this ?

 

Regards,Cloud

Edited October 10, 2006 by cloud recluse

[cloud recluse]

Actually,is the IAM mantra only for the purpose of purification. I mean it makes sense to become silence after the pranayama in order to safely intergrate the aroused energy. But is the I AM also an arouser of cleansing Energy?

 

If it was just a case of silence,I could happily drop the Mantra & just Listen Without Manipulation.

[freeform]

Actually,is the IAM mantra only for the purpose of purification. I mean it makes sense to become silence after the pranayama in order to safely intergrate the aroused energy. But is the I AM also an arouser of cleansing Energy?

 

If it was just a case of silence,I could happily drop the Mantra & just Listen Without Manipulation.

 

I dont I AM myself - but find myself spontaneously chanting weird sounds. a mantra or chant has two main functions, as I see it - firstly it's great at emtying your mind and secondly it centres your energy. Sitting in forgetfullness, or just going deep into your body can have the effect of quieting your mind (not as effective ime) but there is no centering...

 

When you chant a mantra, you can feel where the energy concentrates or emanates from, each sound has it's own centre... for example I just tried 'I AM' and felt it in the deep heart... if I slowly chant 'hooraahh' in me it starts in the LTT and moves up to the back of my head. If I kept chanting that over months, perhaps it would change - generally the longer you chant the same mantra, the more it moves down into your core channel.

 

So rather than an arouser of cleansing energy, it's a method for centering energy within yourself.

[Yoda]

Cloud,

 

I wouldn't force the pranayama thing. One option might be to do some yoga or light power yoga right before meditation to oxygenate and open the channels in lieu of pranayama. Or maybe just sit in siddhasana for a few minutes before meditation to get things moving below the belt. And/or do Trunk's testical massage/ice treatment before meditation, etc. Just don't overdo the exercise or you'll be too stimulated to get into the meditation state.

 

I wouldn't label yourself as 'blocked' either... I'd go with the label 'gifted' in that you are very sensitive to energy circulation exercises which is a glorious thing in the long run. Just changing labels will really help.

 

If you are drawn to Adyashanti, then possibly the above doesn't apply. Just sit there.

 

While there are many people out there like Adyashanti who didn't need a method, I definitely do and that's what systems like AYP provide.

 

Like Freeform says, iam is just a method for assisting the mind to abide in the formless tao. Yogani says that mantras can be used for energy cultivation or for meditative cultivation depending on the mantra itself and how it's used. So saying om out loud with no real pauses is using it as an energy tool, but saying it mentally with long deep, blissful pauses and only repeating it when one becomes aware of self and other again, etc it becomes a meditation tool. At the same time it is a meditation tool, it does cultivate certain energy currents at a very deep level. Yogani says that om is the king of mantras, but that it can be harmful when used as a meditation tool when the nervous system isn't ready for it as it stimulates the crown chakra directly. Iam on the other hand, doesn't do that, so is safer.

 

Go with whatever feels the best, of course.

 

-Yoda