Mal Posted September 10, 2011 ScottyZYX is spamming the forum with posts. Since this morning we are treating them just like spam. report ip ban and delete the post. until we hear otherwise from Sean as this is an extraordinary situation. Updated: Scotty and Stigweard are currently suspended for 7 days Any new post/ids by them during this time will be unapproved. Updated: Stig is unsuspended 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted September 10, 2011 I don't think they are spam. He's the only person fighting a very uphill battle. Since he's the only one saying what he's saying, of course he is going to be posting more frequently on his own than someone who has other people posting similar stuff. Please reinstate scotty. All he's doing is looking for an equal, across the board implementation of the rules: If that were the policy here, then: awesome! Or if the policy is strictly "no insults", then: awesome! But to rapidly switch between these two extremes based on the moderator's personal bias regarding various members here? Not acceptable. That is basically what it comes down to. People have been suspended/banned for abrasive behavior, condescending tone, and slyly insulting peoples' intelligence. Concurrently, other members (who have been here for a while) have come out more directly and blatantly made personal remarks (in more than a few cases, towards/against scotty). These people have not had moderator action come down as swiftly as others have. It is a HUGE imbalance. All that scotty has done has come out and said "hey, there is an imbalance, what are we going to do with it?" It's my opinion that this balance will NEVER be reached with the current policy and current style of moderation. I fully understand the insult policy- sean wants a place where people can come and talk and share their opinions without feeling like they are going to be harassed at every turn (by new and, presumably, old members). But I don't think that will ever happen when we talk about "real stuff". Stuff that people have been spending their lifetimes doing. Stuff that is really personal and really important. We have no screening mechanism for "respect". And even with long term members, we have no way of knowing what is going to set them off. For instance, in the gender threads we had some guys come out with their honest experiences and opinions regarding women- totally uncensored and direct. Some well respected members (shaktimama, seth ananda, among others), had some very powerful reactions to that. Some pretty nasty things were said all around. To me, that is not inherently a bad thing. That's merely a consequence of finding something that is real. If TTB's wants to have "real" discussions, we are going to strike some nerves. People are going to get pissed. And in anger, some people are going to respond in an ugly fashion. It happens. We can use that to further exploration and conversation, or we can try and trim it so that we are all "proper" in our discourse. But it's my opinion that if we do that, we're always going to stay on the surface level. If you don't let people show their ugly sides, then you aren't letting them be "real". The focus, I think, should instead be on disturbances to the forums that are inherent problems for navigation purposes. Scotty wasn't posting spam threads or spam posts. He was making topics relevant to actions that were going on. And as I have mentioned previously, conversations move quicker than the mods do. I can understand how, from a mod perspective, scotty's threads may seem as "spam"- as soon as you work out an issue, three more threads have popped up. But from the perspective of a participating member, it's the mods that are moving in slow motion! Einstein's theory of relativity seems to apply to TTB's as well I've outlined my suggestions for things that are "disruptive" in this post. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted September 11, 2011 Wait.... did I miss something? What'd Stig do for the suspension? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted September 11, 2011 Wait.... did I miss something? What'd Stig do for the suspension? Maybe the mods took you up on your definition of "disruptive" Anyways... IMO, it was a predictable outcome. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) Maybe the mods took you up on your definition of "disruptive" Well I for one didn't see stig do anything anywhere close to my definition of disruptive, so maybe I'm missing something else. Anyways... IMO, it was a predictable outcome. In what way? Edited September 11, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjjbecker Posted September 12, 2011 Both Scotty and Stig are sincere people, and I understand where they are coming from. On certain points I agree. Scotty certainly has a right to say he thinks decisions have not been correct. Stig certainly has a right to suggest changes that he thinks could improve the forum. People have the right to say whether they agree or disagree. The issue here though is Scotty and Stig demanding that there should be change-on their terms. The issue here is making statements that they can, and will, do whatever they want. They can't. Not a statement of opinion but of fact-and they have forced Sean and the moderators to prove this. Ultimately Sean DOES get to choose how the forum is run-he owns it. I am all for freedom of speach and opinion. I am not for individuals demanding what they want and constantly doing so. That isn't why I visit this forum and it isn't why other people come here. In the end it is the same as spamming and it distracts from the other discussion. It is clearly stated within the rules/guidelines to please abide by the moderators decisions. I don't think the moderators have any objection to someone questioning an individual decision. Constant demands though are not abiding by these decisions. Stig and Scotty constantly berated the moderators. Neither of them have the right-as per the forum rules/guidelines to do this. People may not like this-no one is forcing them to. They however don't have the right to force the forum to follow their opinions, nor do they have the right to force the owner to do what they want. If someone doesn't like how this forum is run then they are free to leave. If they want everything on their terms then the choice they have is to set up their own forum, where they are the owners and so they get to make the decisions. Stig referenced my post on self moderation in his thread, but he seemingly missed the point entirely. My post was all about individual accountability and responsability. When people consider the feelings of others, rather than being deliberately obnoxious and confrontational, then the need for the moderators disappears. It was not a call for the removal-or even change-of the current system. The idea that the moderators here are unreasonable, controlling individuals is not backed up by the evidence. They may makes mistakes, there may be some disagreement on their decisions. Such is the way of things. Some will agree, some will disagree. To claim the moderators are destroying free speach and discussion on this forum is simply wrong. Discussions and threads are continuing here, and have done so since the moderator roles were created. We can argue all day about 'fairness' and 'equal punishment for all', but that is not a 'get out of jail free' card. Deal with your own behaviour and actions. Overstep the mark and get moderated for it, you only have yourself to blame. You don't like what someone else says or thinks? Ignore them and move on. React, then you choose to live with the consequences, whether you like them or not. 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted September 12, 2011 Well I for one didn't see stig do anything anywhere close to my definition of disruptive, so maybe I'm missing something else. In what way? What the previous two posts said I have moderated for years (and still do at another site), so I have a lot of empathy for the mod process and how disruptive some posting occurs and the flurry of PMs you can get about it (not that it happened here but I know it happens). Forums are generally privately owned and run by volunteer mods who do their best; which may not seem like the best at times, but it's up to the mod team and owner to decide when a change really needs to occur. I think it's very useful for members to air their ideas and vision and to that degree I applaud Stig's energy for a better board; but I think the 'demand for change' and other innuendos conveyed is the exact kind of disruption which mods see growing like a wild fire. Look how quiet it is now with both of them "cooling off"... That's what mod's consider at some point; what does it take to get the board and it's members back from the unrest. Maybe in a 'no-holds barred' board, it would take a month or more to eventually cool off and as we say, the issue dies a 'natural and slow death'; but that is the discretion of the owner and mods, IMO. I for one do not really like seeing either of those guys suspended; I had a real beef with how Scotty was suspended but I kept my strongest opinions in check since I can understand ultimately why. Relativity is not a good moderating way; Very slow suspensions followed by very fast suspensions on two cases which leave many questioning WTF is not a good feeling for members or mods... but neither of those guys exhibited the kind of 'self-moderation' which is being put forth either... which means you know when enough is enough. My feeling was, it was past enough 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted September 12, 2011 Btt: Stig is unsuspended. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 12, 2011 Btt: Stig is unsuspended. Damn! He needed the break. He has been working far too hard and is very stressed out. (There Stig, my buddy, I got even with you. Hehehe.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted September 12, 2011 Well it's 2 am here is Aus where Stig and I live so he probably is resting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Well it's 2 am here is Aus where Stig and I live so he probably is resting. You should do the same! Let the other mods take the work, and the heat Edited September 12, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) This may be beating the last remaining bush in existence, but.. forget it. MjjBecker said it best. Edited September 13, 2011 by thelerner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) ? Is that an official moderator response? What does it mean? Are you not taking what I said seriously for some reason? Edit: Oh, I think I get it now. You think you should be paid to do your job correctly...as long as money isn't coming in, you will refuse to do it correctly? Then why did you accept your position? Out of respect for the integrity of this forum, you should consider the points I made. Edited September 18, 2011 by Scotty 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
