Do we require guidance to reach enlightenment?

[C T]

 

I think I will make a topic about this, to look at the ways that we take external things and build on the illusion..

 

 

I hope CT will overlook the reflexive swipe too..

Good idea, mate, about starting a new topic.

 

No worries, swipe away if you must.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

If humanity is not at the point that we developed web of systems that require and promote the egotistical state and lived according to our selfless nature, nobody would think to destroy the ego for the sake of mankind. Why bother?

 

 

[don't think I'll make a new topic since it's something that can be discussed in others right now..]

 

on the above quote, I'd also like to say that Buddhism is not so much about destroying the ego, but simply realizing that it is an illusion (edit: though in effect these are the same things..). Also, this realization is not just for mankind but works from an individual level, sort of like "take care of yourself and you'll take care of your family, take care of your family and you'll take care of society, etc."

 

There is always the issue of "why me?" or "why not me?" regardless of the social structure. When these questions are of no value to a person, they surely can consider the needs of others more often; however, I think aiding society is more a residual effect than the primary motivation of the realization, since freeing individuals this way is more efficient, complete, and durable, imo..

Edited September 19, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[LBDaoist]

Yes, we all require guidance to reach enlightenment. At some point, we all have to admit to ourselves that we do not know it all and that we can learn from others. One of my favorite Taoist sayings has been, "If I only meet three people today, one of them can be my teacher."

 

If you believe that no one else has anything to teach you, are you enlightened?

 

Having said that, it would be prudent to be wary of those claiming to enlighten you... especially if they want money.

[xabir2005]

Yes, we all require guidance to reach enlightenment. At some point, we all have to admit to ourselves that we do not know it all and that we can learn from others. One of my favorite Taoist sayings has been, "If I only meet three people today, one of them can be my teacher."

 

If you believe that no one else has anything to teach you, are you enlightened?

 

Having said that, it would be prudent to be wary of those claiming to enlighten you... especially if they want money.

well said. Like the first chan patriarch bodhidharma said, "If you don't find a teacher soon, you'll live this life in vain. It's true, you have the buddha-nature. But without the help of a teacher you'll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher's help.

If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn't need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you're so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you'll understand."

[Harmonious Emptiness]

well said. Like the first chan patriarch bodhidharma said, "If you don't find a teacher soon, you'll live this life in vain. It's true, you have the buddha-nature. But without the help of a teacher you'll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher's help.

If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn't need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you're so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you'll understand."

 

I have to wonder, with all the printed texts of the best teachers in history that are available today, is the task not far more accessible than in the past?

 

I would not argue against finding the right teacher though. The same as with learning music or anything else, we can learn and learn on our own, but then when a master sees your technique and suggests something, they can potentially save you years in getting to another level by pointing out things we don't see on our own.

 

That said, in merely understanding what the Buddha meant, I think there are so many angles that can be learned from to try and get a 360 degree view of what he meant. However, again, to see our application of that with all the mistaken assumptions or oversights, the right teacher is a blessing.

 

Nevertheless, I think "the right teacher" is very important as they will be able to work with what we know and grow on that. I find teachers of any discipline can sometimes disregard the students direction and try to build them into their own image of what is correct. Sometimes old habits need to be broken down to solidify a foundation, but "perfect technique" might not be the "best technique," at least I can see this in musical training and feel like it might crossover in spiritual training. There have been times when I was doing something "improperly" and was told to abandon it and learn the "proper" way, only to later realize that some of the best use the "improper" way. Though a stubborn student will just spin in the same ditch if he's never willing to discard some things to make room for others.

 

just some thoughts...

[Jeff]

I had glimpses of experiences like you since a couple of years back, and seeing this, Thusness told me to start practicing self-inquiry... it didn't take long, (but it can certainly be faster for some - some got it even instantly), about 1 year 10 months since I started self-inquiring... to Self-Realization.

 

You may want to try self-inquiry as it is a direct path to self-realization which I, Thusness, and many others can attest. The method is being described in my e-book: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/12/my-e-booke-journal.html , but also taught by many other teachers like Sri Ramana Maharshi, Ch'an Master Hsu Yun, etc etc.

 

And no, I don't feel distinct chakras or dan tiens, and furthermore I don't manipulate or deal with chakras or kundalini and the likes in order to induce experiences of cosmic consciousness or lead to self-realization. I consider that as a valid, but gradual path... whereas self-inquiry is a direct path to self-realization.

 

Xabir,

 

Thank you for sharing your e-book. I am about half way through and I may have been confusing what I thought was "non-duality" with "I am everything". I had assumed that non-duality was the absence of me with a continuous moment, but others have stated that "non-duality" has no moment. Thoughts? Also, is non-duality completely beyond the mind (i.e. not even physical pain)?

 

Thanks.

 

[Aaron]

I never claimed any such things. In this exact thread I responded to you

 

On onother page of this thread I responded to a less contrived version of the same statement with-

 

 

Dont you realize to tease somone for things they have not done, and to project the contents of your mind on them as to laugh mockingly is to be like laughing at your self. Even more so now this other part of my earlier response more aplicable.

 

 

Hello Ion,

 

My intent wasn't to hurt your feelings or tease you, but to shake you up a bit, because you need to be shaken. You are so certain and I want you to understand that being certain doesn't always mean you are right. You can view things any way you want, but if there is a place within you that holds even the smallest doubt, then it is time to review that belief and be sure it is valid, or better yet throw it away and start from scratch.

 

I hope that you can understand that experience is far more important than intellectual understanding. When you stop analyzing what you experience according to what you have been taught and instead can view the experience for what it is, then I am certain your ideas of masculine and feminine and even sidhis and psychic powers will evaporate and what you will be left with is the knowledge of the true nature of things.

 

When I understood the true nature of things I understood that I am nothing.

 

Aaron

Edited September 22, 2011 by Twinner

[xabir2005]

[Jeff]

Xabir,

 

Thank you for this post. It fits exactly.

 

Have a good weekend.

 

[manitou]

 

 

In other words, as the senses become more purified and filters are dismantled one by one, then one's vision gradually become clearer, and in that clarity, often one gets to see how one can derive great delight from surrendering to simplicity, something which comes from sustaining a patient and humble practice. This recognition can only touch us as profoundly as we are willing to let go of our resistance. Once the barriers come down, everything can be our Teacher, since wisdom cannot fail but recognizes itself always.

 

I couldn't agree more with what you're saying here. It's a question of removing filters, personality disorders, rules, (as Suninmyeyes said earlier) and being capable of transcending the childish religious beliefs that most of us were given. It's a question of getting down to Who you Actually Are - finding the real Human Being inside - and it's most likely not who you think it is. It is getting to the point where we choose our reactions, whether they be reactions of kindness, sternness, or honesty - but the enlightened one is capable of pulling his chosen reaction out of the bag but not being manipulated by it. Not to be shaken by it. It's being capable of seeing the metaphysical dynamicism of the human soul and the souls of others. And yes - everything becomes our teacher. Standing in line becomes our teacher, as does getting cut off in traffic.

 

Surrendering to simplicity. that's so beautiful, Cowtao. Getting to the point in life where we're capable of being happy with what we have, and are no longer plagued by what we don't have and once wanted so badly. It's acceptance of the fact that Life Just Is, and that everything mixes together to form one huge life experience for everyone here and now. I think the main thing that enlightened ones share is lack of fear of tomorrow....or much of anything, for that matter. The enlightened one no longer fears death, but embraces it as a necessary part of life.