Bliss VS Awareness

[ion]

Hello Everything,

 

Bliss is transient, it does not last. Awareness is transient, it does not last. Seek that which lasts and you will see that these two things are as worthless as the sand at the beach. When you see them as worthless, then they will never be stolen from you.

 

Aaron

 

 

Consciousness is transient. Awareness to wich consciousness is dependant is not transient.

[suninmyeyes]

I voted other.

Well I started becouse I wanted to have a deeper insight into life.

 

Now I do it becouse it feels right.

Edited September 16, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Enishi]

IMO this is like comparing wheels to engines in terms of what is more important to making a car run.

[ion]

IMO this is like comparing wheels to engines in terms of what is more important to making a car run.

 

 

Why? I understand the meaning of the cliche but how do you apply it to this?

[Aaron]

Consciousness is transient. Awareness to wich consciousness is dependant is not transient.

 

You have it backwards. Awareness is transient, consciousness is not transient.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

I was considering making a similar comment but I had no way to build on it and felt it would sound too negative if I just said it and did not build on it.

 

Thing is, nothing lasts forever. That is because the universe and all things within are dynamic. The only way we could escape these changes would be to escape the physical and Y'all know I don't talk about such things.

 

Nothing about this is really negative. All things are transient. The only thing that is not transient is what is. If you seek what is, then as a byproduct you will have both peace and awareness, but in learning what is, you see the transient nature of awareness and peace, so they will have little value to you, which is why they will not be taken from you, simply because you do not need them, so you are happy to give them away.

 

Aaron

Edited September 17, 2011 by Twinner

[Meow]

There are easier ways to achieve pleasure than meditation. Even intensified pleasure. And pleasure that's coming from unusual mind experiences doesn't make pleasure anything more than pleasure, even if it's supreme bliss or something alike. Considering how the whole life is about searching for pleasure and running from pain, HECK NO, it would be crazy to meditate for the same purpose. An outlet of that circle, please, not vice versa.

 

Pleasure is disgusting in the way that it makes you do things that you do, even if you know that you shouldn't be doing them or if they harm you. It rules your life so completely. Imho a wish to get more of it is incompatible with the wish to change oneself, since that's exactly what puts a stop to any change.

[Understanding]

There are easier ways to achieve pleasure than meditation. Even intensified pleasure. And pleasure that's coming from unusual mind experiences doesn't make pleasure anything more than pleasure, even if it's supreme bliss or something alike. Considering how the whole life is about searching for pleasure and running from pain, HECK NO, it would be crazy to meditate for the same purpose. An outlet of that circle, please, not vice versa.

 

Pleasure is disgusting in the way that it makes you do things that you do, even if you know that you shouldn't be doing them or if they harm you. It rules your life so completely. Imho a wish to get more of it is incompatible with the wish to change oneself, since that's exactly what puts a stop to any change.

 

 

lots of good information here guys

looks like no one chose bliss yet LOL

looks like Lama Dorje's gonna need a new sales pitch =O

 

Well there is long term pleasure and short term pleasure, doing drugs and having unprotected sex and doing crazy things on a motorcycle will bring short term pleasure, but long term pain. I doubt there is any way to get supreme bliss without mediation. No way at all.

 

And i mean, what is the point of living, even you have awarenss of everything, if you are in intesne amounts of pain? I feel that as i meditate it is not so uneven, and the being blissful helps me become aware, and becoming aware helps me become blissful.

 

Im sure i would be very happy being in pure bliss and knowing nothing, they say that ignorance is bliss, but i dont very much like the idea of mindlessness and egolessness, depending on you definition of ego, I WANT TO KNOW HOW THINGS WORK, i want to one day be able to feel every cell in my body, i want to UNDERSTAND, i want to be sensitive, but in the end i think we only have 3 things, awareness, bliss, and power and the lack or opposite of those. meditating is about bringing those more and more.

 

i think void mediation is more about learning to be aware of what truley matters, by quieting what doesnt matter as much, but i dont think that void is the end goal, if void were the end goal, then we might as well become athesists and bleive that when we die concoiuness ends and that this life is all we got.

[C T]

Actually i think ignorance is the root of suffering, not bliss.

 

The root of bliss is transcendence of dualistic interpretations of things flowing into the field of awareness.

[Marblehead]

You have it backwards. Awareness is transient, consciousness is not transient.

 

Aaron

 

What happened to Bliss?

[Marblehead]

Nothing about this is really negative. All things are transient. The only thing that is not transient is what is. If you seek what is, then as a byproduct you will have both peace and awareness, but in learning what is, you see the transient nature of awareness and peace, so they will have little value to you, which is why they will not be taken from you, simply because you do not need them, so you are happy to give them away.

 

Aaron

 

See? You built on it. And you did well. Good boy!

[Marblehead]

Actually i think ignorance is the root of suffering, not bliss.

 

Well, of course you do. Hehehe. Isn't that a given?

[Protector]

POWER!

the other two will come easily with enough power

simple

[Meow]

And i mean, what is the point of living, even you have awarenss of everything, if you are in intesne amounts of pain? I feel that as i meditate it is not so uneven, and the being blissful helps me become aware, and becoming aware helps me become blissful.

If you belong to a tradition that uses bliss, there's nothing to say without arguing the whole tradition.

 

But as it is, nobody speaks of either intense amount of pain or eternal bliss, do they? There's no such choice, it's somewhere in between. There's no way to paralyze your body from feeling anything, and to paralyze your mind from feeling emotions. It sounds like death or coma, not like life.

[ion]

You have it backwards. Awareness is transient, consciousness is not transient.

 

Aaron

 

 

It is my understanding that awareness is not dependent on anything, and that consciousness is dependent on what it is conscious of.

 

Consciousness is dependent on experience and other things.

 

Take meditation for example... The goal is that you gain control and there is no more arising of consciousness in your awareness.

 

Another important point someone made one time was that everything is mind, consciousness is subjection of mind.

 

Consciousness is transient, it can be transient in life, and most certainly is at the end of it. Awareness is not, awareness is the field of all consciousness.

 

Bliss is dependent on consciousness. The ego in each of us is a consciousness.

 

What is your understanding that shows I have it backwards?

[Understanding]

POWER!

the other two will come easily with enough power

simple

 

YOU GOT IT!!

lol

 

yeah its a trifecta

[Aetherous]

Bliss.

[Birch]

Not sure really. I think it's just a habit i've gotten into.

Anyways, after a while, how would one know bliss from any other feeling? I guess i had the occasional moment here and there. I'm probably doing it wrong again.

[zanshin]

Awareness leading to bliss. I always liked that sort of going out of control feeling, riding on a motorcycle, falling madly in love, crazy feeling alive things. But with awareness, everyday things become sublime. Wet grass under my feet, breeze blowing in the first chill of fall, sky morning pink and I cried because it was all so beautiful. Or maybe that was pms.

Edited September 19, 2011 by zanshin

[Aetherous]

I always liked that sort of going out of control feeling, riding on a motorcycle, falling madly in love, crazy feeling alive things. But with awareness, everyday things become sublime. Wet grass under my feet, breeze blowing in the first chill of fall, sky morning pink and I cried because it was all so beautiful.

 

+1

 

Even the respiration that is always occurring within the body becomes sublime.

[NeiChuan]

Imagine the stress at having attained all the wonderful bliss states, and then realizing that none of it can prolong life for even an extra minute as death looms closer and closer

 

I Don't think it'd be viewed in the same sense.

 

It might even be a bit beautiful to the person in bliss, being they understand they're that much more like the seasons.

 

And everyones season must come to an end.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Very interesting discussion and points here..

 

I suppose my overall goal is to have more awareness in daily life which reduces suffering and allows me to be more present and give more of myself.

 

At the same time, I feel that the bliss during meditation sort of cleans out a lot of the junk that keeps me from being able to have and share goodness with people. Finding the bliss in meditation allows me to know that there is still bliss in the minimal, and also that I will not loose that "basic goodness" if I have nothing else. Basically bliss brings me in the right direction. It's not about pleasure, but connecting to "basic goodness" which is like a magic elixer that allow for more patience which allows for more awareness, courage, and love...

[Soulthriller]

I don't feel a need to separate bliss from awareness but rather unify them along with being to create a harmony of Being-Awareness-Bliss as I have found this to benefit me more than the separation of these aspects of existence.