The origins of alchemy (and chemistry)

[Taomeow]

Am J Chin Med. 1988;16(1-2):83-6.

 

Alchemy, Chinese versus Greek, an etymological approach: a rejoinder.

Mahdihassan S.

 

Abstract

The theory generally accepted maintains that Alchemy arose at Alexandria as a child of Greek culture. It has two names, Chemeia as the earlier and Chumeia as the later. There is another theory that Alchemy arose in China. Its founder was the aged ascetic who longed after drugs of longevity. He first tried jade, next gold and cinnabar, but the ideal was a drug which was red like cinnabar and fire-proof like gold. But what was actually prepared was red colloidal gold or "calcined gold," by grinding gold granules in a decoction of an herb of longevity. It was called Chin-I; Chin = gold and I = plant juice. In Fukin dialect Chin-I = Kim-Iya. This was Arabicized, by pre-Islamic Arabs trading in silk with China, as Kimiya, whence arose Al-Kimiya and finally Al-chemy. It was first accepted by Bucharic speaking Copts in Egypt who transliterated Kimiya = Chemeia, pronouncing it as the Arabs did. With the increase of trade in silk the Chinese also went to Alexandria and helped the Greeks to translate Chin-I as Chrusozomion meaning, gold (making) ferment, instead of gold making plant juice. Consistent with this origin of the word Chemeia is the fact that the earlier Alchemists were not Greeks but probably Bucharic speaks Copts or Egyptians. The consumer of Chin-I or Chemeia became "a drug-made immortal" called Chin-Jen, Golden-Man. This was translated into Greek as Chrusanthropos. Thus the etymoloogy of two Greek words Chrusozomion and Chrusanthropos support the origin of the loan word, Chemeia as Chinese. To save space it is not proposed to discuss the origin of Chumeia.

 

PMID:3064584 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

Interestingly, the Russian word for chemistry still sounds almost exactly like the Chinese (Fukin) Kim-Iya -- "khimiya." (While "alchemy" contracted the Arabic article al- along the way and is "alkhimiya.")

 

[witch]

Very interesting and it doesn't surprise me at all.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Personally, I'm a lot more inclined to believe that the words for alchemy and chemistry came from Kemet, the name, at the time, of Ancient Egypt where the alchemical process seemed to start around 6000BC or so. The Ancient Greeks were also very influenced by Kemet as seen in their adoption of their pantheon.

 

Also, the Arabs added a lot to chemistry and math, but are more likely to have learned them first from the Kemetics who seem to have started them first and also spread their culture and knowledge around both actively and by accepting scholars from all around the world who knew "if you want to know the real ish, you gots to get to Kemet."

[Taomeow]

Personally, I'm a lot more inclined to believe that the words for alchemy and chemistry came from Kemet, the name, at the time, of Ancient Egypt where the alchemical process seemed to start around 6000BC or so. The Ancient Greeks were also very influenced by Kemet as seen in their adoption of their pantheon.

 

Also, the Arabs added a lot to chemistry and math, but are more likely to have learned them first from the Kemetics who seem to have started them first and also spread their culture and knowledge around both actively and by accepting scholars from all around the world who knew "if you want to know the real ish, you gots to get to Kemet."

 

Yes, I'm familiar with this "black earth" or "Egyptian art" version, but it doesn't take the origins of science far enough and, in the tradition of European scholarship, ignores China as nonexistent in the historic and scientific process and "isolated," which is institutionalized BS. Julius Caesar wore a toga of Chinese silk.

 

From researching the history of astrology (inseparable from alchemy) I've reasons to believe that Egyptian and Chinese knowledge have a common Mesopotamian/Sumerian source (if we don't take it even farther back and, again in the tradition of "modern scholarship" originating in Germany about 150 years ago, ignore all things Mu and Atlantean and Naga-Mayan and so on), and neither one predated the other. Arabs are likely to have had access to both, but quite a bit later.

 

Besides -- that's my own thing, but very fruitful in my world -- phonetic hunches are sometimes like sparks in the dark. The Russian "khimiya" strikes "Kim-Iya" with sparks and crackle-pops but not "Kemet." Sometimes those sparks momentarily illuminate a landscape long gone, never seen by scholars, but indestructible.

 

Gurdjieff's father was an ashok, which is an ancient occupation of transmitter, in song, of ancient knowledge. An ashok learned hundreds if not thousands of songs which were histories, later reinterpreted by "scholars" as "myths." His or her successor learned them all too, and it got preserved orally and communicated to the people for longer than anyone can imagine. How long? When Sumerian clay tablets were discovered containing the great epic poem of Gilgamesh, to the delight of the literati, Gurdjieff was delighted too, because one of his father's songs telling of the heroes and their deeds of long ago was this one, the epic poem of Gilgamesh! Now from the tablets discovered, parts of the poem were missing (I think it doesn't have an ending to this day), but from his father's song, no, everything was intact there. How cool is that. So, I was delighted in my own turn, because stories like this one add some credibility to my "tuning in my ear to understand history" methods...

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Now you said "It was first accepted by Bucharic speaking Copts in Egypt who transliterated Kimiya = Chemeia, pronouncing it as the Arabs did"

 

but why would Kemetics use a Chinese word for something that they invented long before China in the historical timeline?

 

Really, given the timeline, I wouldn't even be surprised if even the Chinese got their word from Kemet.

[Taomeow]

I didn't say it, American Journal of Chinese medicine did.

 

I don't know exactly who used whose word, all I know is, the origins of chemistry are definitely Mesopotamian/Sumerian (if we don't look farther back, like I said before.) There's Sumerian tablets discovered in the 20th century that contain chemical and pharmaceutical prescriptions of considerable intricacy, down to outlining the use of chemical pesticides, notably sulfur compounds. The Chinese who (contrary to what all those old dusty history books ignore) had extensive trade and cultural exchanges with Mesopotamia seem to have fruitfully combined this knowledge with their own shamanic, proto-taoist, and later taoist traditions to come up with their own version of alchemy. What Kemetics were up to I don't know, all I know is, they did not preserve what they had as a living, continuously practiced system, we only have fragments here and there, not the whole. I think it's far more likely that Europeans (whose "Greek Miracle," the beginning of our own civilized history, is 75% attributable to the Great Silk Road and access to Chinese civilization it provided) got most of it where it was preserved rather than where it was destroyed. But you have to do some comparative studies of Western and Chinese alchemy and astrology to see it.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I didn't say it, American Journal of Chinese medicine did.

 

 

To me, that's not evidence or proof of it's accuracy, not to say that you're implying otherwise.

 

"[Europe's] "Greek Miracle," the beginning of our own civilized history, is 75% attributable to the Great Silk Road and access to Chinese civilization it provided"

 

A large part of it, especially in regards to gun powder. However, the Greek scholars still knew that Kemet was the place to learn the most advanced knowledge of their time (to say nothing of our time).

 

However, I'm not really at TTB to discuss these things as they are too contentious and controversial to hope for any accepted conclusions, in my previous experience..

[Apech]

I think the only thing certain about the etymology of the word alchemy is its origin in the Greek "khymeia" which relates to working with molten metal. I think the Chinese link is interesting and probably has some merit although I'd like to see the time line of its emergence as a term.

 

The Khemet root is, in terms of etymology a speculation based on the emergence of western alchemy in Egypt. While I am certain that alchemy and hermetic science has a lot of roots in Egypt - the Egyptians themselves did not practice anything that resembles the science of chemistry (although they did work metals of course) - the terms alchemy and chemistry were used interchangably until 17 century, neither did they have an astrology although stars were significant in their religion (unless you count very late stuff like the Denderah ceiling which is borrowed from the Greeks and Assyrians). It is possible that the Arabs attributed alchemy to Egypt and so called it literally 'the Egyptian (thing)' but despite being an Egyptophile myself I think its a bit thin.

 

Metaphysically though its easy to see the idea of reality being composed of 'substances' being linked to Egyptian thought because of Atum and Ptah. And the main Egyptian texts like the BoD and the Pyramid Texts are in effect works on internal alchemy although such a term did not exist then.

 

[Harmonious Emptiness]

neither did they have an astrology although stars were significant in their religion (unless you count very late stuff like the Denderah ceiling which is borrowed from the Greeks and Assyrians). It is possible that the Arabs attributed alchemy to Egypt and so called it literally 'the Egyptian (thing)' but despite being an Egyptophile myself I think its a bit thin.

 

Metaphysically though its easy to see the idea of reality being composed of 'substances' being linked to Egyptian thought because of Atum and Ptah. And the main Egyptian texts like the BoD and the Pyramid Texts are in effect works on internal alchemy although such a term did not exist then.

 

I highlight what I think is fairly substantial to my position.

 

However, how can you say they didn't have astrology when the temples were lined up with recurring star positions, and stars were significant in their religion?

 

To my understanding their knowledge and mapping of constellations was very advanced and long standing for them to have built these temples as they did at the time they did..

 

Also, I'm not convinced that they didn't use chemistry given everything else they did with electricity, medicines, etc.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Apech]

I highlight what I think is fairly substantial to my position.

 

However, how can you say they didn't have astrology when the temples were lined up with recurring star positions, and stars were significant in their religion?

 

To my understanding their knowledge and mapping of constellations was very advanced and long standing for them to have built these temples as they did at the time they did..

 

Also, I'm not convinced that they didn't use chemistry given everything else they did with electricity, medicines, etc.

 

By astrology I mean a zodiac and so on. They had an in depth knowledge of the night sky which they used for various purposes including telling the time (the decan stars - and star clocks). Certain stars and constellations were significant e.g. Orion = Osiris, Sirius = Isis and the Plough (Big Dipper) = the Imperishable souls. The course of sun on the plane of the ecliptic (Winding Waterway) and the phases of the Moon and certain of the planets.

 

Sorry got to go now ... more later.

[Taomeow]

By astrology I mean a zodiac and so on. They had an in depth knowledge of the night sky which they used for various purposes including telling the time (the decan stars - and star clocks). Certain stars and constellations were significant e.g. Orion = Osiris, Sirius = Isis and the Plough (Big Dipper) = the Imperishable souls. The course of sun on the plane of the ecliptic (Winding Waterway) and the phases of the Moon and certain of the planets.

 

Sorry got to go now ... more later.

 

The original meaning of "zodiac" (Greek: "circle of animals") was of course Chinese, the circle of 12 animals (year of the Tiger, etc., remember?), and they were terrestrial energies (of the Earthly Branches). Transporting them to heaven and associating assorted celestial entities with them while eliminating correspondences and interactions between Heavenly Stems and Earthly Branches was part of the overall "heavenward" drive of all Indo-European modalities. All astrology, alchemy, religion derived thence is progressively patriarchal. Diana Lucifera became Lucifer. Father in Heaven figured out a way to get a woman (Mother on Earth) pregnant without making love to her. And so on.

[Apech]

The original meaning of "zodiac" (Greek: "circle of animals") was of course Chinese, the circle of 12 animals (year of the Tiger, etc., remember?), and they were terrestrial energies (of the Earthly Branches). Transporting them to heaven and associating assorted celestial entities with them while eliminating correspondences and interactions between Heavenly Stems and Earthly Branches was part of the overall "heavenward" drive of all Indo-European modalities. All astrology, alchemy, religion derived thence is progressively patriarchal. Diana Lucifera became Lucifer. Father in Heaven figured out a way to get a woman (Mother on Earth) pregnant without making love to her. And so on.

 

As our friend Vmarc was at pains to point out the Egyptians did not have a sky father or a mother earth. And Geb very much made love to Nut ...

 

 

although in a slightly acrobatic fashion ...

[Apech]

HE,

 

Please do not think I am denigrating the Egyptians I have studied and worked on Egyptian mysticism for many years. They achieved many great things but I question some of things attributed to them.

 

I don't think the term alchemy is derived from khemet but I am certain that alchemic practice and the western hermetic system includes a transmission from Ancient Egypt ... if you read the Emerald Tablet the link is clear and Hermes Trismegistos = Thoth thrice great.

 

A.

[Taomeow]

As our friend Vmarc was at pains to point out the Egyptians did not have a sky father or a mother earth. And Geb very much made love to Nut ...

 

 

although in a slightly acrobatic fashion ...

 

Ah, so they had mother heaven and father earth. Unless the length of the arm is explained by Lemurian descent, the female arch over the male "receptive" is very much a symbol of "heaven embracing earth" (similar to some taoist art I've seen), and quite in tune with taoist sexual alchemy (the real thing) which reverses the flow of jing qi shen to shen qi jing (the real immortality practice) by giving the male a passive role and the female, the active one in sexual practices.

 

I'm all over the place with this, but please bear with me -- I don't know much Egyptian stuff except some hands-on Egyptian magic (and even that only in theory, mostly, with the exception of some stuff picked up from Max, another Egypt buff). I think there's two Egyptian histories though, the real one -- of a civilization very ancient and drawing on much earlier sources -- and the official one. The official one is not satisfactory, the dissenting one I don't know enough of to present a coherent case. What I usually object against in our overall way to "know" things, fragmentation of knowledge that yields trivia instead of wisdom, is alas my own state of affairs with Egypt. Some things I know in some depth (e.g., the sacred geometry of the pyramids, and the fact that there's no way in hell they were built by slaves as we are taught), some I just get a kick out of (e.g. the fact that they worshipped cats for at least one thousand years -- the best years of Egyptian power and glory), some I practiced a bit (Max's Egyptian version of the Golden Flower that deposited a golden pyramid in my mind's eye quite naturally, or the Red Phoenix that gave me an idea of the reasons behind the chosen color patterns of Egyptian art), and some I have listened to alternative historians talk about (who believe Egyptians had and used portals, traveled to other planets quite extensively, and may have been Martians to begin with), but it's nowhere near clear in my mind yet. The "yet" is like a glass half full approach -- but where to look for the other half of that glass to fill it up, no one knows, to my knowledge.

[taooneusa]

valley of the flowing sands

[Apech]

Ah, so they had mother heaven and father earth. Unless the length of the arm is explained by Lemurian descent, the female arch over the male "receptive" is very much a symbol of "heaven embracing earth" (similar to some taoist art I've seen), and quite in tune with taoist sexual alchemy (the real thing) which reverses the flow of jing qi shen to shen qi jing (the real immortality practice) by giving the male a passive role and the female, the active one in sexual practices.

 

I'm all over the place with this, but please bear with me -- I don't know much Egyptian stuff except some hands-on Egyptian magic (and even that only in theory, mostly, with the exception of some stuff picked up from Max, another Egypt buff). I think there's two Egyptian histories though, the real one -- of a civilization very ancient and drawing on much earlier sources -- and the official one. The official one is not satisfactory, the dissenting one I don't know enough of to present a coherent case. What I usually object against in our overall way to "know" things, fragmentation of knowledge that yields trivia instead of wisdom, is alas my own state of affairs with Egypt. Some things I know in some depth (e.g., the sacred geometry of the pyramids, and the fact that there's no way in hell they were built by slaves as we are taught), some I just get a kick out of (e.g. the fact that they worshipped cats for at least one thousand years -- the best years of Egyptian power and glory), some I practiced a bit (Max's Egyptian version of the Golden Flower that deposited a golden pyramid in my mind's eye quite naturally, or the Red Phoenix that gave me an idea of the reasons behind the chosen color patterns of Egyptian art), and some I have listened to alternative historians talk about (who believe Egyptians had and used portals, traveled to other planets quite extensively, and may have been Martians to begin with), but it's nowhere near clear in my mind yet. The "yet" is like a glass half full approach -- but where to look for the other half of that glass to fill it up, no one knows, to my knowledge.

 

You are right, the official history is flawed (and often 'updated' - i.e. previously wrong). My approach is to take the original Egyptian texts i.e. Pyramid Texts, Coffin texts, Book of the Dead and the Underworld 'maps' like the Amdwat and apply them to my meditation by interpreting them as the equivalent of internal alchemy texts. Egyptologists deal with them as funereal texts only even though the texts themselves say things like 'good to be done while on earth every day' and so on. I use the original hieroglyphs as much as possible backed up by good translations. There is so much in there that the task is awesomely huge and sometimes overwhelming. I have been doing this for several decades and occasionally 'give up' for short periods.

 

I have learned a lot but it is one tiny fragment of a vast repository of knowledge/wisdom.

 

Some significant similarities to Taoist thought and both 'emerged' from shamanism at similar times probably/certainly the same source.

[witch]

and quite in tune with taoist sexual alchemy (the real thing) which reverses the flow of jing qi shen to shen qi jing (the real immortality practice) by giving the male a passive role and the female, the active one in sexual practices.

 

[Apech]

and quite in tune with taoist sexual alchemy (the real thing) which reverses the flow of jing qi shen to shen qi jing (the real immortality practice) by giving the male a passive role and the female, the active one in sexual practices.

 

TM and Witch,

 

 

Yes ... here is another illustration ... Isis as a 'kite' (bird) conceives Horus by the 'dead' i.e. passive Osiris

 

 

PS. that is not a condom on his head lol! Its the white crown of Upper Egpyt which signifies he is drawing energy down from upper chakras - which fits with what you are saying I think.

[Taomeow]

I couldn't find it, but I remember Sean posting a picture of the Hindu goddess Durga (Kali) having a go at her "dead" husband in the same fashion.

[Taomeow]

You are right, the official history is flawed (and often 'updated' - i.e. previously wrong). My approach is to take the original Egyptian texts i.e. Pyramid Texts, Coffin texts, Book of the Dead and the Underworld 'maps' like the Amdwat and apply them to my meditation by interpreting them as the equivalent of internal alchemy texts. Egyptologists deal with them as funereal texts only even though the texts themselves say things like 'good to be done while on earth every day' and so on. I use the original hieroglyphs as much as possible backed up by good translations. There is so much in there that the task is awesomely huge and sometimes overwhelming. I have been doing this for several decades and occasionally 'give up' for short periods.

 

I have learned a lot but it is one tiny fragment of a vast repository of knowledge/wisdom.

 

Some significant similarities to Taoist thought and both 'emerged' from shamanism at similar times probably/certainly the same source.

 

This sounds like the right way to approach these texts. The problem with academia is, they preach whatever they pull outta their arse because they don't practice anything. History can't be solved in the head.

 

Are you familiar with Helena Blavatsky's take? I have her opus magnum but have given it only a cursory read this far. Funny how the officialdom managed to give her a reputation of some flaky cook, people usually smirk at the very mention of her name, people who have never read her works that is... those who did react differently. I was floored. Have never encountered scholarly works so exhaustively researched and referenced, so intellectually fierce, conclusions so bold without striking as farfetched. Been meaning to give her Egyptian chapters a good read.

[Apech]

I read Madam Blavatsky's Isis Unveiled a long time ago and it is certainly an interesting book.

 

The best book I have read which gives a convincing link between Ancient Egypt and alchemy is Alison Roberts "My Heart My Mother"

 

Amazon

 

most of the book is a bit confused because she is not a mystic (see review on Amazon) but the final chapters on alchemy are very interesting. There is no doubt no matter what the etymology of the word, the actual practice of western alchemy derived a lot from Egypt.

[deci belle]

 

I'm so on top of that!!!❤ hahahahhahaa!! (not joking)

[Birch]

I found this online http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/isis/iu-hp.htm

 

Is that it?

 

I'm assuming I can post this here on TTB's (haven't read the copyright stuff).

[Apech]

I found this online http://www.theosocie.../isis/iu-hp.htm

 

Is that it?

 

I'm assuming I can post this here on TTB's (haven't read the copyright stuff).

 

It says you can download it free of charge ... its a fairly old book and maybe copyright has expired ... either way they have given permission ... and yes that's the book I meant (assume TM meant this one too although Madam Blavatsky has written others.