Knowledge

[Meow]

I know of no universal truth.

 

But I do have "my" truths.

Sun is yellow and shiny

You're a human being

People age as they grow older

 

An 'illusion' I think means something that is perceived but that is either not actually in reality or is different from reality in some way. Otherwise we'd just call it, er, 'reality'. Then there's 'being wrong' which is a whole n'other problem

That's an interesting idea. I have a problem with all those truths being told us as real, though, not only "right".

 

Ok. Have it your way. Probably reading through some books on the subject would give a better lexicon and understanding of what you term "knowlege" and allow you to conceptualize in a way that is more standard for cultivators.

Did I offend you somehow?

[Birch]

Greetings Meow,

 

 

 

Personally my history is complicated.

To paint a picture, when growing up I was part of a destructive cult.

It took time and energy, I worked my way up through the cult regurgitating their so-called truths. Once I was in a position to free myself from it, I did. It took fifteen years to free myself and my parents and find enough evidence to convince them that it was nothing but a destructive cult. Today, none of my previous beliefs I once held form a base in my new perception of reality.

 

Needless to say if given the chance, I could be called apostate by many religions.

 

Moral of the albeit brief story? Only that to seek Knowledge that you will, an awareness beyond texts you will need. For religious texts may hint to higher knowledge. Just the same, some close awareness off to seeing things as they are by default. I know I am throwing you a curve ball here.

 

Each religion has a different perception and distinction of reality. It is all covered in: This post here.

 

Experience is the only thing between you and understanding what is fake.

Though methods may seem like trickery. The only way to follow the complicated "no path" quest is to PM me. I will provide you with a link, though it is based upon understanding intuitive abilities, it is the only way to seek what you wish be being able to discern from religious texts (most of what is, seems to be inheirently tainted as such). Along with a brief monologue of what is not covered by the link.

Kudos for trying this huge and difficult undertaking.

 

 

 

No, all religions are not completely truthful. Neither do they lead to the same result. The only thing that leads to the same result is the need to dominate.

 

 

 

The distinctions of atman/anatman are information written down by someone who studied texts and had no clear knowledge of what it means to have reached these realities. I am not making this "wrong" by my words. I am simply saying that much is missed because the persons who wrote about it did not experience it. This disqualifies them from providing real information for people who wish to find an answer to it.

It does provide fundamental information on tenets and vehicles with which to try to accomplish said realities. However, to be totally apostate on the matter from an energetic perspective it is... sorry to say... perfectly worthless.

 

I say this because the written materials on these subject do provide the qualities that the writers could imbue with the subject. Vedantic writings and Buddhist writings the same are great by their own merit and provide meaning according to the precepts and vehicles inheirent to their own distinctions. Vedantic being percieving through non-dual means and Buddhism through knowledge, compassion and awareness. By their own merits they are not wrong and in these respects that they seek truth they are not wrong by these measures. Writings are only wrong when you seek other truth other than what the original writer could possibly imbue them with.

Yet to understand that, you have to understand the different perspectives, hence why you should read my lost I linked to above.

 

I should have provided complete explanation an tenure as to why I was not making a religion "wrong" so to speak. If someone chooses to find fault with my words, thinking that that was an attack on the religion itself, they did not read and fully understand my words.

 

 

Oh, I don't mind. I have a natural 'anti-religious' bias :-)

The thing I'm interested in, is how driving different vehicles gets one to different places. My beef with religions is most of them start out by telling you that your car is the wrong make or colour or that there's a tire missing or that you're not driving fast or slow enough or you could have some really kewl spoilers on the back and a big UV light under it if you only forked out some cash (or devotion) to someone or other. Or that you ought to change your car more often. Or that you're going in the wrong direction and your map-reading skills suck because you're a girl. Or something.

[Meow]

It took time and energy, I worked my way up through the cult regurgitating their so-called truths. Once I was in a position to free myself from it, I did. It took fifteen years to free myself and my parents and find enough evidence to convince them that it was nothing but a destructive cult. Today, none of my previous beliefs I once held form a base in my new perception of reality.

That's certainly unimaginable, being raised in the atmosphere of a cult.

 

Each religion has a different perception and distinction of reality. It is all covered in: This post here.

I'm not sure how that post addresses each religion having a different perception of reality?

 

The distinctions of atman/anatman are information written down by someone who studied texts and had no clear knowledge of what it means to have reached these realities. I am not making this "wrong" by my words. I am simply saying that much is missed because the persons who wrote about it did not experience it. This disqualifies them from providing real information for people who wish to find an answer to it.

It does provide fundamental information on tenets and vehicles with which to try to accomplish said realities. However, to be totally apostate on the matter from an energetic perspective it is... sorry to say... perfectly worthless.

Well, texts aren't supposed to help that much, none of them could just propel you to some kind of ability to perceive a high truth. There's no delusion about it, everybody has to create the way to it anew, whether it turns out to be true or false, and whether it even exists.

 

The chance is slim, though, if you consider that there are no Buddhas or Jesuses nowadays, and that those might've been greatly exaggerated, too. Where are all those people who practiced all their lives and were supposed to be able to show themselves here later and help? It's almost like trying to discover something, using hope without belief, that has a very small chance to exist.

 

I hope I don't come off as jaded, but if so, then it's ok. Being realistic about the object of search should be helpful rather than hindering.

 

-K-, what do you mean by religions? Abrahamic religions?

[XieJia]

Dear Meow,

 

As your username is related to Cats;

I want to recommend this text:

 

http://da2el.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/story-neko-no-myojutsu-mysterious-technique-of-the-cat/

 

It's about ultimate form of technique, the technique of no-relying on anything.

Have a read with a open mind and tell us what you think.

Knowledge is similar to that of technique.

 

Wish you good luck in your pursuit.

 

-XieJia

[Jeff]

That's nice, let's talk about chakras. Chakras are the type of "knowledge" I'm looking for. But not only about them. Tell me, why is it that there are chakras for some people, and no chakras for others? Why is it that some people believe in immortal fetus and some conceive of no such a thing? Are the whole traditions wrong and delusional, despite all of them having claims to the sublime type of such knowledge?

 

Knowledge should be universal if it's true. It cannot change from person to person, from one tradition to another.

 

Meow,

 

Welcome! Just reading this thread, I am very impressed with your ability (and desire) to maintain a focused goal with all of the distractions. If you have not already noticed, this thread is a perfect example of "you" and your mind/ego.

 

Everyone has a framework of chakras/tan tiens, most just are not able to quiet their minds enough to notice. The chakra structure is a mind constructed framework, so you it is possible to "designer build" dependent on your beliefs/expectations.

 

A question for you... How many ongoing threads (or voices) do you normally have going on at any one time during the day?

 

[XieJia]

I know of no universal truth.

 

But I do have "my" truths.

 

Hey! what about 'My' truth. Isn't it yours?

 

How many ongoing threads (or voices) do you normally have going on at any one time during the day?

 

[Protector]

 

The chance is slim, though, if you consider that there are no Buddhas or Jesuses nowadays, and that those might've been greatly exaggerated, too. Where are all those people who practiced all their lives and were supposed to be able to show themselves here later and help? It's almost like trying to discover something, using hope without belief, that has a very small chance to exist.

 

 

Don't know how to say this most accurately but let me try...

 

...All "true" Masters/Gurus/Teachers are "selfish" "evil" "mean" and have no problem with making you go through "hell" and "killing" you if you say something "wrong".

 

There.

 

 

Still standing on my mountain. When I'm alone I'm smart, when with friends I'm dumb.

[Birch]

I mean any way of formalising experience that causes the experiencer to align his or herself with other experiencers, tends to have creation stories, tends to have precepts about the nature of reality and beings, tends to impose social roles and behaviour, tends to establish polarities of "right" vs "wrong", tends to leverage symbols to anchor all of the preceding.

But I especially dislike the abrahamic ones :-)

[Protector]

oh by the way, I was told to study taoism from the bible and so I'm looking for the oldest one

[Marblehead]

Hey! what about 'My' truth. Isn't it yours?

 

It may be. But then, ...

[Marblehead]

Still standing on my mountain. When I'm alone I'm smart, when with friends I'm dumb.

 

Evry subjective reality is a matter of opinion, isn't it?

[Meow]

http://da2el.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/story-neko-no-myojutsu-mysterious-technique-of-the-cat/

Nice story for sure, even though it's about martial arts Well, now I see where you're coming from.

 

A question for you... How many ongoing threads (or voices) do you normally have going on at any one time during the day?

 

What does that mean, as in, voices talking in my head? Or (lol) threads in various online forums?

 

I mean any way of formalising experience that causes the experiencer to align his or herself with other experiencers, tends to have creation stories, tends to have precepts about the nature of reality and beings, tends to impose social roles and behaviour, tends to establish polarities of "right" vs "wrong", tends to leverage symbols to anchor all of the preceding.

But I especially dislike the abrahamic ones :-)

I understand. True, all this seems like inevitable evil, a price for aligning experiences. But this is good, because we can communicate.

 

I share your dislike for abrahamic ones. Whether or not they had any merit originally, right now they're empty structures devoid of any useful instructions. People go to church and nothing ever changes.

[Jeff]

What does that mean, as in, voices talking in my head? Or (lol) threads in various online forums?

 

 

How many things do you normally think about at once? As an example, are you thinking (or worrying, being distracted) about anything else while reading this post?

 

 

Quieting the mind makes it easier to notice the beginning of what you are looking for.

[Birch]

Nice story for sure, even though it's about martial arts Well, now I see where you're coming from.

 

 

What does that mean, as in, voices talking in my head? Or (lol) threads in various online forums?

 

 

I understand. True, all this seems like inevitable evil, a price for aligning experiences. But this is good, because we can communicate.

 

I share your dislike for abrahamic ones. Whether or not they had any merit originally, right now they're empty structures devoid of any useful instructions. People go to church and nothing ever changes.

 

Oh, I'd argue that that's the (intended?) effect of going to church. To not have things change :-) But we don't need churches any more. We have other techniques :-) I don't mean 'we' as I'm one of the 'we' btw. And I'm speculating about the amount of intent involved:-)

[Ambrose_Bierce]

Hi Ambrose. The only no path way is to find out from you via PM?

 

Typo. I had some information on it, yet didnt want to just post it on a forum. So, to anyone who wants that information as complicated as it is can be made readily available by PM. No, I meant the only way my information on it is available through PM. This was frustrating because I swear the post is not the same that I pasted from the notepad file on my computer I wrote.

 

This was a path I took, I was orignally disgruntled with religion itself.

 

So I took the time to comb over previous posts to ensure that the post reflected what I had meant. I did not mean for such a misunderstanding about what I had said. I document everything I write. Rarely do I ever ad-lib a post.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Ambrose_Bierce

[XieJia]

Dear Meow,

 

Hope you are well, and still freshly to get what you seek.

From what I read this whole thread, many people here are trying to share

their experience with entering the path with you. All is good. If you follow any of them,

you should arrive at the Knowledge you desired.

 

There's much different path offer here,

using the main motorway, by the seaside, in and out of forest and beyond the desert.

All is good. Although the Daoist here, have a funny sense of humors.

However let me borrow an analogy from Hua Hu Ching, All of these are prescriptions not the medicine.

Doctor Jeff, Doctor Ambrose, Doctor K and any others give good prescriptions and supplements.

 

Let me leave you with another thing: A Cup of Tea

 

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

 

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

 

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"

 

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

[/Quote]

 

I am not saying that your cup is full or anything.

But for me, true knowledge is not when you fill yourself with ideas or notions; these will always conflict each other. The True Knowledge is how we know how to empty our cups and maintain a open-mindedness to all things.

 

Despite of this, your path is yours to choose. The Tao Bums will always however supports you

It'll be well to inquire yourself and answer Jeff's question.

 

Goodluck and may you find what you seek,

-Xiejia

 

[Protector]

Don't listen to him, listen to Jackie

 

jk jk

[Ambrose_Bierce]

I see your schwartz is as big as mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S25Zf8svHZQ

[Meow]

XieJia

 

You're nice and a bit strange , I come here having questions and looking for something in general, and you tell me I should not care for knowing it? I understand from which perspective that makes sense, but if you please, I did things without much thinking before, and this is what made me doubt them. It's complicated, really. Let's say that not only I did not get the result I wanted (but theoretically I could wait indefinitely till it comes), but I started doubting that those were right methods to obtain it in the first place! So now what I need is some clarification on the methods, however, I'll probably obtain it in a different place

 

Even if you aim to quiet your thoughts, you have first decided to do it, right? That's what I mean, my problem now is rather general, not specific.

 

But thank you And posts here show a different direction than the one I was taking.

 

Oh, I'd argue that that's the (intended?) effect of going to church. To not have things change :-) But we don't need churches any more. We have other techniques :-) I don't mean 'we' as I'm one of the 'we' btw. And I'm speculating about the amount of intent involved:-)

True, going to church is more of a consolation, if you live a good life you'll go to heaven, at least I can see no other benefit than relief from thinking of your own good future and good future for those you care about. The god figure is important, too, as I gather from religious relatives, it helps explain fate when something bad happens, much like the law of karma.

[Aaron]

MEOW! I was thinking about an answer to your question while listening to my I-POD on random and these three songs popped up. I'm posting the Youtube links... listen to them and maybe they'll answer your question for you, better than I could... this was the order in which they played (keep in mind i have over 3,000 songs on my I-Pod, so the idea that it chose to play these three, seems more than just coincidence.

 

Frank Turner

 

Killers

 

Billy Joel

 

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

Aaron

[Protector]

Universe doesn't judge, you look for knowledge and you find "knowledge".

[Birch]

XieJia

 

You're nice and a bit strange , I come here having questions and looking for something in general, and you tell me I should not care for knowing it? I understand from which perspective that makes sense, but if you please, I did things without much thinking before, and this is what made me doubt them. It's complicated, really. Let's say that not only I did not get the result I wanted (but theoretically I could wait indefinitely till it comes), but I started doubting that those were right methods to obtain it in the first place! So now what I need is some clarification on the methods, however, I'll probably obtain it in a different place

 

Even if you aim to quiet your thoughts, you have first decided to do it, right? That's what I mean, my problem now is rather general, not specific.

 

But thank you And posts here show a different direction than the one I was taking.

 

 

True, going to church is more of a consolation, if you live a good life you'll go to heaven, at least I can see no other benefit than relief from thinking of your own good future and good future for those you care about. The god figure is important, too, as I gather from religious relatives, it helps explain fate when something bad happens, much like the law of karma.

 

Oh. I didn't mean anything good about the church. Highly dishonest IMO to attempt to proffer either consolation or incentive upon people for living their own damn lives. Their own:-) As sovereign people. This, IMO/IME is the kind of consolation and incentive I enjoy:-) Yet again i encounter surprise about my lack of beliefs. I think i have far too many left.

[XieJia]

It is the base, if you want the knowledge of the truth then you cant discriminates.

Rather than Think, feel!

 

Well I guess my word is up.

 

Wish you good luck Meow

 

take care

Edited September 22, 2011 by XieJia

[Jeff]

It is the base, if you want the knowledge of the truth then you cant discriminates.

Rather than Think, feel!

 

[Meow]

Thank you all, that was a good thread