dwai Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) अथ योगानुशासनम् ॥१॥ atha yoga-anuśāsanam ||1|| Yoga in the here and now: an introduction to the study and practice of yoga ||1|| योगश्चित्तवृत्तिनिरोधः ॥२॥ yogaś-citta-vṛtti-nirodhaḥ ||2|| When you are in a state of yoga, all misconceptions (vrittis) that can exist in the mutable aspect of human beings (chitta) disappear. ||2|| तदा द्रष्टुः स्वरूपेऽवस्थानम् ॥३॥ tadā draṣṭuḥ svarūpe-'vasthānam ||3|| For finding our true self (drashtu) entails insight into our own nature. ||3|| वृत्ति सारूप्यमितरत्र ॥४॥ vṛtti sārūpyam-itaratra ||4|| Lacking that, misconceptions (vritti) skew our perceptions. ||4|| वृत्तयः पञ्चतय्यः क्लिष्टाक्लिष्टाः ॥५॥ vṛttayaḥ pañcatayyaḥ kliṣṭākliṣṭāḥ ||5|| There are five types of misconceptions (vrittis), some of which are more agreeable than others: ||5|| प्रमाण विपर्यय विकल्प निद्रा स्मृतयः ॥६॥ pramāṇa viparyaya vikalpa nidrā smṛtayaḥ ||6|| insight, error, imaginings, deep sleep, and recollections. प्रत्यक्षानुमानागमाः प्रमाणानि ॥७॥ pratyakṣa-anumāna-āgamāḥ pramāṇāni ||7|| Insight arises from direct perception, conclusions, or learning that are based on reliable sources. ||7|| विपर्ययो मिथ्याज्ञानमतद्रूप प्रतिष्ठम् ॥८॥ viparyayo mithyā-jñānam-atadrūpa pratiṣṭham ||8|| Error arises from knowledge that is based on a false mental construct. ||8|| शब्दज्ञानानुपाती वस्तुशून्यो विकल्पः ॥९॥ śabda-jñāna-anupātī vastu-śūnyo vikalpaḥ ||9|| Imaginings are engendered by word knowledge without regard for what actually exists in the real world. ||9|| अभावप्रत्ययालम्बना तमोवृत्तिर्निद्र ॥१०॥ abhāva-pratyaya-ālambanā tamo-vṛttir-nidra ||10|| Deep sleep is the absence of all impressions resulting from opacity in that which is mutable in human beings (chitta). ||10|| अनुभूतविषयासंप्रमोषः स्मृतिः ॥११॥ anu-bhūta-viṣaya-asaṁpramoṣaḥ smṛtiḥ ||11|| Recollections are engendered by the past, insofar as the relevant experience has not been eclipsed. ||11|| अभ्यासवैराग्याभ्यां तन्निरोधः ॥१२॥ abhyāsa-vairāgya-ābhyāṁ tan-nirodhaḥ ||12|| The state of yoga is attained via a balance between assiduousness (abhyasa) and imperturbability (vairagya). ||12|| तत्र स्थितौ यत्नोऽभ्यासः ॥१३॥ tatra sthitau yatno-'bhyāsaḥ ||13|| Assiduousness means resolutely adhering to one's practice of yoga. ||13|| स तु दीर्घकाल नैरन्तर्य सत्कारादरासेवितो दृढभूमिः ॥१४॥ sa tu dīrghakāla nairantarya satkāra-ādara-āsevito dṛḍhabhūmiḥ ||14|| Success can definitely be achieved via sound and continuous practice over an extended period of time, carried out in a serious and thoughtful manner. ||14|| दृष्टानुश्रविकविषयवितृष्णस्य वशीकारसंज्णा वैराग्यम् ॥१५॥ dṛṣṭa-anuśravika-viṣaya-vitṛṣṇasya vaśīkāra-saṁjṇā vairāgyam ||15|| Imperturbability results from a balance in the consciousness, and when the desire for all things that we see or have heard of is extinguished. ||15|| तत्परं पुरुषख्यातेः गुणवैतृष्ण्यम् ॥१६॥ tatparaṁ puruṣa-khyāteḥ guṇa-vaitṛṣṇyam ||16|| The highest state of imperturbability arises from the experience of the true self; in this state even the basic elements of nature lose their power over us. || 16|| वितर्कविचारानन्दास्मितारुपानुगमात्संप्रज्ञातः ॥१७॥ vitarka-vicāra-ānanda-asmitā-rupa-anugamāt-saṁprajñātaḥ ||17|| This absolute knowledge is engendered incrementally by divination, experience, joy, and ultimately the feeling of oneness. ||17|| विरामप्रत्ययाभ्यासपूर्वः संस्कारशेषोऽन्यः ॥१८॥ virāma-pratyaya-abhyāsa-pūrvaḥ saṁskāra-śeṣo-'nyaḥ ||18|| The other state of insight, which is based on persistent practice, arises when all perception has been extinguished and only non-manifest impressions remain. ||18|| भवप्रत्ययो विदेहप्रकृतिलयानम् ॥१९॥ bhava-pratyayo videha-prakṛti-layānam ||19|| Some people are born with true insight, whereas others attain it via a divine body or oneness with nature. ||19|| श्रद्धावीर्यस्मृति समाधिप्रज्ञापूर्वक इतरेषाम् ॥२०॥ śraddhā-vīrya-smṛti samādhi-prajñā-pūrvaka itareṣām ||20|| And then there are some for whom trust, determination, memory and divination lay the groundwork for insight. ||20|| तीव्रसंवेगानामासन्नः ॥२१॥ tīvra-saṁvegānām-āsannaḥ ||21|| The goal is achieved through intensive practice. ||21|| मृदुमध्याधिमात्रत्वात्ततोऽपि विशेषः ॥२२॥ mṛdu-madhya-adhimātratvāt-tato'pi viśeṣaḥ ||22|| This practice can be light, moderate or intensive. ||22|| ईश्वरप्रणिधानाद्वा ॥२३॥ īśvara-praṇidhānād-vā ||23|| The goal can also be attained via submission to the concept of an ideal being (ishvara). ||24|| क्लेश कर्म विपाकाशयैःपरामृष्टः पुरुषविशेष ईश्वरः ॥२४॥ kleśa karma vipāka-āśayaiḥ-aparāmṛṣṭaḥ puruṣa-viśeṣa īśvaraḥ ||24|| Ishavara is a special being that is unaffected by the obstacles of the spiritual aspirant (klesha), specific actions and consequences (karma), or recollections or desires. ||24|| तत्र निरतिशयं सर्वज्ञबीजम् ॥२५॥ tatra niratiśayaṁ sarvajña-bījam ||25|| Ishavara is unmatched and is the source of all knowledge. ||25|| स एष पूर्वेषामपिगुरुः कालेनानवच्छेदात् ॥२६॥ sa eṣa pūrveṣām-api-guruḥ kālena-anavacchedāt ||26|| Ishvara is each and every one, and is even the teacher of the first ones; he is unaffected by time ||26|| तस्य वाचकः प्रणवः ॥२७॥ tasya vācakaḥ praṇavaḥ ||27|| OM is a symbol for ishvara. ||27|| तज्जपः तदर्थभावनम् ॥२८॥ taj-japaḥ tad-artha-bhāvanam ||28|| Repetition of OM (with this meaning) leads to contemplation. ||28|| ततः प्रत्यक्चेतनाधिगमोऽप्यन्तरायाभवश्च ॥२९॥ tataḥ pratyak-cetana-adhigamo-'py-antarāya-abhavaś-ca ||29|| Through this practice, the immutable self is revealed and all obstacles (antaraya) are removed. ||29|| व्याधि स्त्यान संशय प्रमादालस्याविरति भ्रान्तिदर्शनालब्धभूमिकत्वानवस्थितत्वानि चित्तविक्षेपाः ते अन्तरायाः ॥३०॥ vyādhi styāna saṁśaya pramāda-ālasya-avirati bhrāntidarśana-alabdha-bhūmikatva-anavasthitatvāni citta-vikṣepāḥ te antarāyāḥ ||30|| These obstacles (antaraya) (illness; inertia; doubt; neglect; sloth; desire; blindness; a lack of goals; irresoluteness) obscure that which is immutable in human beings (chitta). ||30|| दुःखदौर्मनस्याङ्गमेजयत्वश्वासप्रश्वासाः विक्षेप सहभुवः ॥३१॥ duḥkha-daurmanasya-aṅgamejayatva-śvāsapraśvāsāḥ vikṣepa sahabhuvaḥ ||31|| Suffering, depression, nervousness, and agitated breathing are signs of this lack of clarity. ||31|| तत्प्रतिषेधार्थमेकतत्त्वाभ्यासः ॥३२॥ tat-pratiṣedha-artham-eka-tattva-abhyāsaḥ ||32|| He who practices assiduously overcomes these obstacles. ||32|| मैत्री करुणा मुदितोपेक्षाणांसुखदुःख पुण्यापुण्यविषयाणां भावनातः चित्तप्रसादनम् ॥३३॥ maitrī karuṇā mudito-pekṣāṇāṁ-sukha-duḥkha puṇya-apuṇya-viṣayāṇāṁ bhāvanātaḥ citta-prasādanam ||33|| All that is mutable in human beings (chitta) is harmonized through the cultivation of love (maitri), helpfulness (karuna), conviviality (mudita) and imperturbability (upeksha) in situations that are happy, painful, successful or unfortunate. ||33|| प्रच्छर्दनविधारणाभ्यां वा प्राणस्य ॥३४॥ pracchardana-vidhāraṇa-ābhyāṁ vā prāṇasya ||34|| The goal can be attained through breathing exercises involving holding your breath before exhaling. ||34|| विषयवती वा प्रवृत्तिरुत्पन्ना मनसः स्थिति निबन्धिनी ॥३५॥ viṣayavatī vā pravṛtti-rutpannā manasaḥ sthiti nibandhinī ||35|| - Or by contemplating things and impressions, which promotes mental stability and consolidation ||35|| विशोका वा ज्योतिष्मती ॥३६॥ viśokā vā jyotiṣmatī ||36|| - Or by contemplating the inner light that is free of suffering. ||36|| वीतराग विषयम् वा चित्तम् ॥३७॥ vītarāga viṣayam vā cittam ||37|| - Or if what is mutable in human beings (chitta) is no longer the handmaiden of desire. ||37|| स्वप्ननिद्रा ज्ञानालम्बनम् वा ॥३८॥ svapna-nidrā jñāna-ālambanam vā ||38|| - Or through knowledge that is derived from a nocturnal dream. ||38|| यथाभिमतध्यानाद्वा ॥३९॥ yathā-abhimata-dhyānād-vā ||39|| - Or through contemplation (dhyana) of love. ||39|| परमाणु परममहत्त्वान्तोऽस्य वशीकारः ॥४०॥ paramāṇu parama-mahattva-anto-'sya vaśīkāraḥ ||40|| A person who attains this goal has mastery over everything, from the smallest atom to the entire universe. ||40|| क्षीणवृत्तेरभिजातस्येव मणेर्ग्रहीतृग्रहणग्राह्येषु तत्स्थतदञ्जनता समापत्तिः ॥४१॥ kṣīṇa-vṛtter-abhijātasy-eva maṇer-grahītṛ-grahaṇa-grāhyeṣu tatstha-tadañjanatā samāpattiḥ ||41|| Once the misconceptions (vritti) have been minimized, everything that is mutable in human beings (chitta) becomes as clear as a diamond, and perceptions, the perceived, and perceiver are melded with each other. - One builds on and colors the other. This is enlightenment (samapatti). ||41|| तत्र शब्दार्थज्ञानविकल्पैः संकीर्णा सवितर्का समापत्तिः ॥४२॥ tatra śabdārtha-jñāna-vikalpaiḥ saṁkīrṇā savitarkā samāpattiḥ ||42|| In conjunction with word and object knowledge, or imagination, this state is savitarka samapatti. ||42|| स्मृतिपरिशुद्धौ स्वरूपशून्येवार्थमात्रनिर्भासा निर्वितर्का ॥४३॥ smṛti-pariśuddhau svarūpa-śūnyeva-arthamātra-nirbhāsā nirvitarkā ||43|| Once all previous impressions (smriti) have been purged and one's own nature is clearly perceptible, then only the object of contemplation emanates light. This is nirvitarka samapatti. ||43|| एतयैव सविचारा निर्विचारा च सूक्ष्मविषय व्याख्याता ॥४४॥ etayaiva savicārā nirvicārā ca sūkṣma-viṣaya vyākhyātā ||44|| If the object of concentration is of a subtle nature, these two described states are known as savichraara and nirvichara samapatti. ||44|| सूक्ष्मविषयत्वम्चालिण्ग पर्यवसानम् ॥४५॥ sūkṣma-viṣayatvam-ca-aliṇga paryavasānam ||45|| An object can be subtle to the point of indefinability. ||46|| ता एव सबीजस्समाधिः ॥४६॥ tā eva sabījas-samādhiḥ ||46|| All of these states of consciousness are called sabija samadhi. ||46|| निर्विचारवैशारद्येऽध्यात्मप्रसादः ॥४७॥ nirvicāra-vaiśāradye-'dhyātma-prasādaḥ ||47|| If you regularly experience the clearest of the four aforementioned states known as nirvichara samapatti, then you are about to experience a state of absolute clarity. ||47|| ऋतंभरा तत्र प्रज्ञा ॥४८॥ ṛtaṁbharā tatra prajñā ||48|| - Then consciousness will be filled with truth. ||48|| श्रुतानुमानप्रज्ञाभ्यामन्यविषया विशेषार्थत्वात् ॥४९॥ śruta-anumāna-prajñā-abhyām-anya-viṣayā viśeṣa-arthatvāt ||49|| Consciousness is characterized by a special relationship to the object. This relationship exceeds the bounds of knowledge that is received and followed. ||49|| तज्जस्संस्कारोऽन्यसंस्कार प्रतिबन्धी ॥५०॥ tajjas-saṁskāro-'nya-saṁskāra pratibandhī ||50|| This experience gives rise to an impression (samskara) that supplants other impressions (samskara). ||50|| तस्यापि निरोधे सर्वनिरोधान्निर्बीजः समाधिः ॥५१॥ tasyāpi nirodhe sarva-nirodhān-nirbījaḥ samādhiḥ ||51|| Nirbiija samadhi is attained once even these impressions have become tranquil and when everything has become tranquil. ||51|| source: http://www.ashtangay...jali/chapter-1/) Edited September 16, 2011 by dwai Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 16, 2011 Please substitute the translation of Chitta from "Mutable aspect of Human Beings" with "Consciousness" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted September 16, 2011 For convenience - A link to the first lecture: 1.1 - 1.22 http://acaryadeva-nectar.com/The_Yoga_Sutras_byPatanjali_Class_01.mp3 Second lecture: 1.23 - 1.40 http://acaryadeva-nectar.com/The_Yoga_Sutras_by_Patanjali_Class_02.mp3 Third lecture: 1.41 - 1.51 http://acaryadeva-nectar.com/The_Yoga_Sutras_by_Patanjali_Class_03.mp3 Each lecture is about 1 hour long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted September 18, 2011 Is the OP a good translation it seems a bit interpreted to me. I prefer the trans I posted on the other thread its a lot simpler. This one Yoga >>>> Sutras of Patanjali Interpretive Translation Presented by Swami Jnaneshvara Bharati www.SwamiJ.com This one >>> Yoga sutra pdf download Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 19, 2011 Is the OP a good translation it seems a bit interpreted to me. I prefer the trans I posted on the other thread its a lot simpler. This one Yoga >>>> Sutras of Patanjali Interpretive Translation Presented by Swami Jnaneshvara Bharati www.SwamiJ.com This one >>> Yoga sutra pdf download THanks...the translation is a little goofy on this one (in places). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted September 27, 2011 So I'll kick it off - अथ योगानुशासनम् ॥१॥ atha yoga-anuśāsanam ||1|| Yoga in the here and now: an introduction to the study and practice of yoga ||1|| And now, an exposition on the practice of union! Anusasanam gives this sutra a feeling of heaviness, importance, tradition, age, weight, etc... Atha implies that we are not beginners, that we have had life experience and are at a place in life when we are willing to devote ourselves to a new and valuable endeavor - namely, union or yoga. योगश्चित्तवृत्तिनिरोधः ॥२॥ yogaś-citta-vṛtti-nirodhaḥ ||2|| When you are in a state of yoga, all misconceptions (vrittis) that can exist in the mutable aspect of human beings (chitta) disappear. ||2|| A more literal translation might be: The state of union is achieved by a cessation of the turnings of the mind. Some of the turnings of the mind, as stated above, are misconceptions or less helpful actions of the mind and these are to be ceased. Other activities of the mind are more beneficial and will be discussed more later. So this is saying in a way that yoga is successful meditation or perhaps that yoga can be achieved through successful meditation. Just some thoughts - anyone else care to contribute? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 27, 2011 So I'll kick it off - अथ योगानुशासनम् ॥१॥ atha yoga-anuśāsanam ||1|| Yoga in the here and now: an introduction to the study and practice of yoga ||1|| And now, an exposition on the practice of union! Anusasanam gives this sutra a feeling of heaviness, importance, tradition, age, weight, etc... Atha implies that we are not beginners, that we have had life experience and are at a place in life when we are willing to devote ourselves to a new and valuable endeavor - namely, union or yoga. योगश्चित्तवृत्तिनिरोधः ॥२॥ yogaś-citta-vṛtti-nirodhaḥ ||2|| When you are in a state of yoga, all misconceptions (vrittis) that can exist in the mutable aspect of human beings (chitta) disappear. ||2|| A more literal translation might be: The state of union is achieved by a cessation of the turnings of the mind. Some of the turnings of the mind, as stated above, are misconceptions or less helpful actions of the mind and these are to be ceased. Other activities of the mind are more beneficial and will be discussed more later. So this is saying in a way that yoga is successful meditation or perhaps that yoga can be achieved through successful meditation. Just some thoughts - anyone else care to contribute? Let me try: 1-2 refers to the purpose of Yoga. Yoga is practiced to cease the modifications of the mind. As I interpret it, it's goal is to expand the gap between thoughts so that the "true self" can be experienced. Since the ultimate goal of Yoga is Samadhi, it is only befitting that the first "lesson" of the Yoga Sutras is to describe what Yoga's goal is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted September 30, 2011 Sorry if we're not jumping ahead, but notice that line 39 translates Dhyana as contemplation, rather than freedom from attachments. Any idea why this is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted September 30, 2011 Sorry if we're not jumping ahead, but notice that line 39 translates Dhyana as contemplation, rather than freedom from attachments. Any idea why this is? Dhyana is the Sanskrit word for meditation/contemplation, also known as jhana in Pali. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted September 30, 2011 yogaś-citta-vṛtti-nirodhaḥ ||2|| I take citta-vrtti to refer to modifications - specifically 'whirlpools' - that is stabilised cyclical forms in the mind-stuff (citta). Yoga being the 'control, suppression, cessation?' of these. or to quote Bharati: 1.2 Yoga is the control (nirodhah, regulation, channeling, mastery, integration, coordination, stilling, quieting, setting aside) of the modifications (gross and subtle thought patterns) of the mind field. (yogash chitta vritti nirodhah) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 30, 2011 Sorry if we're not jumping ahead, but notice that line 39 translates Dhyana as contemplation, rather than freedom from attachments. Any idea why this is? Dhyana comes from the root word "dhyai" or "contemplate", so Dhyana is the vehicle of contemplation, used in general sense as "meditation". In Yoga, Dhyana is one of the eight limbs and one of the four "inner" techniques (as opposed to the outer techniques namely yama, niyama, asana and pranayama) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 3, 2011 तदा द्रष्टुः स्वरूपेऽवस्थानम् ॥३॥ tadā draṣṭuḥ svarūpe-'vasthānam ||3|| For finding our true self (drashtu) entails insight into our own nature. ||3|| To move on - this may be the single most important statement in all of spiritual literature as far as I'm concerned. I am of the opinion that the only place we can find answers regarding the nature of our selves, our existence, our reality, are inside. We will not find answers in a book. We will not find the answer from another. We must do the work personally, and if we bring enough energy, dedication, awareness to the question, we will find something worth the investment. A simple way to the truth is to simply pay attention to everything. Everything inside of us and outside of us. Our behavior, thought patterns, emotions, psychological structures. We need to look at all of that very deeply. That's where the truth is - not in a book or even a place of worship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
suninmyeyes Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) The mind is not scattered anymore(as mentioned in previous part). Modifications of the mind settled down into one pointed of state of yoga. Witness state occurs naturally. Edited October 4, 2011 by suninmyeyes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 4, 2011 योगश्चित्तवृत्तिनिरोधः ॥२॥ yogaś-citta-vṛtti-nirodhaḥ ||2|| When you are in a state of yoga, all misconceptions (vrittis) that can exist in the mutable aspect of human beings (chitta) disappear. ||2|| I don't know much about Yogas. But I do see similarities in the words Sanskrit and the Pali Buddhist text I chant in my language. Thai is also based on Pali, hope I help in a way or the other. Citta - mind not sure about vrtti but it sounds like the word 'projectile' in Thai nirodhah - to transcend, transcending, transcended Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) तदा द्रष्टुः स्वरूपेऽवस्थानम् ॥३॥ tadā draṣṭuḥ svarūpe-'vasthānam ||3|| For finding our true self (drashtu) entails insight into our own nature. ||3|| draṣṭuḥ also sounds like to be enlighten or enlightened avasthānam - the 'am' at the end normally implies the word being a noun. avasthan means the 'complete ending' so namely - to translate That is to say the knowing into self-nature of such form is thus the self-ending of such form. वृत्ति सारूप्यमितरत्र ॥४॥ vṛtti sārūpyam-itaratra ||4|| in that same form, the mind-projectile makes it otherwise. However we could make a interesting comparison, if we merge 3 and 4 together. We could also interpret vrtti as the same form as drastuh but yet otherwise; makes me think of chapter one of DDJ as well. I don't know that much on Sanskrit but this is what I would like to add . *Note: We don't have itara in the Thai language I think... Edited October 4, 2011 by XieJia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted October 5, 2011 draṣṭuḥ also sounds like to be enlighten or enlightened avasthānam - the 'am' at the end normally implies the word being a noun. avasthan means the 'complete ending' so namely - to translate That is to say the knowing into self-nature of such form is thus the self-ending of such form. वृत्ति सारूप्यमितरत्र ॥४॥ vṛtti sārūpyam-itaratra ||4|| in that same form, the mind-projectile makes it otherwise. However we could make a interesting comparison, if we merge 3 and 4 together. We could also interpret vrtti as the same form as drastuh but yet otherwise; makes me think of chapter one of DDJ as well. I don't know that much on Sanskrit but this is what I would like to add . *Note: We don't have itara in the Thai language I think... Vritti - to grow or change Drastuh - to view or find Svarupa - self image or own form Vasthanam - to reside So this would translate as when put into context: When the purpose of yoga, ie cessations of the changing state of the mind is realized, the practitioner rests in his self nature or primordial form. Imho, this refers to realization of the "Self" that is obscured by the mind stream. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 6, 2011 वृत्ति सारूप्यमितरत्र ॥४॥ vṛtti sārūpyam-itaratra ||4|| Lacking that, misconceptions (vritti) skew our perceptions. ||4|| Vritti - turnings of the mind or modifications of the mind. I'm not sure I'd define vritti as misconceptions. So I look at this sutra as saying that when we are not resting in that state referenced earlier, that the turnings of the mind skew or color our preceptions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
suninmyeyes Posted October 6, 2011 When our mind is not focused on its own nature it becomes identified with the conditioned states or modifications. Mind focused on its own nature is a very Buddhist approach. And just this very statment has been a centuries of dispute and discussions between the two. I get what you mean, but it is worth while to point that definitions differ between two schools of thoughts. Just for the sake of mentioning. That is all I have time to say , got to go for now(might comment on the verse at some point when back). Later, sun xx. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted October 6, 2011 Mind focused on its own nature is a very Buddhist approach. And just this very statment has been a centuries of dispute and discussions between the two. I get what you mean, but it is worth while to point that definitions differ between two schools of thoughts. Just for the sake of mentioning. That is all I have time to say , got to go for now(might comment on the verse at some point when back). Later, sun xx. Ouch my semi-buddhist hand is slapped . Please do return and comment! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted October 7, 2011 वृत्ति सारूप्यमितरत्र ॥४॥ vṛtti sārūpyam-itaratra ||4|| Lacking that, misconceptions (vritti) skew our perceptions. ||4|| Vritti - turnings of the mind or modifications of the mind. I'm not sure I'd define vritti as misconceptions. So I look at this sutra as saying that when we are not resting in that state referenced earlier, that the turnings of the mind skew or color our preceptions. The practitioner identifies with the modifications of the mind if he/she is not in a state of yoga. Modifications of the mnd are all objects in the consciousness, with either or both name and form Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) When our mind is not focused on its own nature it becomes identified with the conditioned states or modifications. I would say that the yoga is to stop the mind, mind being a field of objects in consciousness... so that sutra can be understood as, while the mind stream is active, the practitioner idntifies with the various objects that constitute the mind stream Edited October 7, 2011 by dwai Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 8, 2011 I would say that the yoga is to stop the mind, mind being a field of objects in consciousness... so that sutra can be understood as, while the mind stream is active, the practitioner idntifies with the various objects that constitute the mind stream Dear Dwai, From your experience, could you put Tantra in perspective as well? I do think it will be educational for us all to mention the both. From my interpretation, the mind stream's torrent is depends on the faculty of the practitioner. So when one doing something for something or A hence B, is contributing to one's own mind stream torrent? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted October 9, 2011 Dear Dwai, From your experience, could you put Tantra in perspective as well? I do think it will be educational for us all to mention the both. From my interpretation, the mind stream's torrent is depends on the faculty of the practitioner. So when one doing something for something or A hence B, is contributing to one's own mind stream torrent? Hi xj, Not sure what you meant in your question. Did you want my opinion on how tantra practices fit into the yogic worldview? Or just discuss what tantrik worldview is in general? If it is the former, then its simple enough...yoga hs been adapted to be a practical tool to experience various indic philosophical frameworks ranging from dualistic sankhya to nondualistic forms of tantra and vedanta. Tantra itself is of various types...main categorization can be made into the righthand path and the left hand path. Right hand path is more intellectual, employs mantras and yogic practices to psychosomatically experience their philosophies. Lefthand path is more "non-traditional", in that it uses schock techniques to break the practitioner free from the shackles of conditioned thinking....it is "crazy, profane and amoral" at the face of it. Though this is what is generally thought of as tantra in the west, more often than not, it is done so ignorant of the traditions and reasons behind the practices, often used as a facade of spiritual practices to indulge in "taboos" . There are three definitive schools of tantra...the vaishnavite, shaivite and shakta. Vaishnavite tantric schools main deity is Vishnu, shaivite schools have Shiva amd shakta schools have varios forms of Shakti (Mother Goddess such as Kali, Durga, etc). One common theme in all tantrik schools is that they all have a main deity through whom the practices are done. Of the three schools, Shaivism has two flavorz...the northern or Kashmir school and the southern or Tamil school. Southern shaivism is primarily dualistic, Kashmir school is primarily nondualistic at its higher levels. If you have further questions, i'd be gld to answer to the best of my knowledge. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
