Kunlun:4 Years later

[Cameron]

Hi guys,

 

I noticed some talk going on regarding Kunlun Nei Gung. The school of one of my dear teachers Max Christensen. I don't have any opinion on the experience of others-their experience is their experience-but would like to share some of my thoughts on the subject. I think it might be good timing since it is exactly four years ago since I took my first workshop with Max.

 

Firstly-if your interested in studying this practice I would reccommend getting the book and just doing it on your own for awhile. It is a very powerful method. The first level of Kunlun alone is probably enough to keep you interested for awhile. I have shared the basic Kunlun practice with people and found some people "get it" right away while others don't. So just try it out and see. Have fun with it. Life is about being joyful and livng in the present moment. Kunlun is the fastest practice I have found to help get you there. After that, spending time in nature and other forms of practice are more wonderful.

 

Regarding negativity surrounding Kunlun-after doing the practice for 4 years I have more energy, am more fit and am a much happier person. I don't buy any of the stories regarding negative entities deriving from the Kunlun practice. Any of the lineage masters of "Kunlun"(tecnically the Maoshan Taoist lineage)would existto help you in awakening imo. I haven't really experienced anything of the sort with spirits and replitillian beings or whatever. Yes, the highest Kunlun Masters-such as Max, Kan and even Sifu Jenny Lamb-all say they have had exeriences of this sort with higher beings not of this dimension. But they are exceptions I think not the norm.

 

If your interested listen to Kan and Sifu Jenny Lamb's interviews here http://thehundredthmonkeyradio.com/dr-joseph-marra.html

 

Great online radio show where you can hear from great teachers like Kan and vibe them out yourself. Kan San is Max's top student and Sifu Jenny is a wonderful teacher who taught spontaneous qigong(Kunlun method) to Max.

 

Max refined his understanding of the the practice combining it with Red Phoenix. My opinion regarding this question about Red Phoenix-get it live from Max. Red Phoenix is a very high level yet simple practice.

 

The level of sophistication and mastery Max has shown to me with the Red Phoenix practice is mind boggling. If you really want to learn Red Phoenix get it from Max himself. To ask others online to explain it to you is not giving it justice. There truly is a high level of skill involved with giving the transmission which is beyond me but Max is a Master of.

 

Max has one of the biggest hearts of any human I know. Is he perfect? No. But he is like a living treasure of Taoist practices and to call him dangerous or a bad teacher in unfair imo.

 

The best advice I can give is do the basic Kunlun method on your own for awhile. Listen to the interviews of Kan San and Sifu Jenny Lamb on the link I gave. And see who you resonate with to teach you deeper things.

 

If your interested in another teacher like Sifu Chris Matsuo great. He seems like a great guy. I live in China now and if the opportunity to meet another teacher of Max or Jenny's caliber is poosible great. It's always great to meet new teachers if they are helpful. My feeling since meeting Max is to develop more love, openness and compassion for people. Nothing of the sort of bad intention some on here seem to feel.

 

In any case, go with love, may your path be blessed.

 

Cameron

Edited November 10, 2011 by Cameron

[witch]

Cam, when you first started Kunlun you kind of flipped out. I'm glad you have found balance and I'm sure you were more advanced four years ago than I am now, so I am not saying this as a knowledgeable nor an experienced person, just an observer. Obviously you are very devoted to the way, moving to China, and I'm guessing that you are now advanced enough to benefit from Max.

 

From what I saw here at TTB's, the very advanced adepts who took Kunlun thought it was wonderful and had no problems, but the beginners had problems. I don't think that saying that is necessarily such a bad thing; it proves the power of the Kunlun practice.

[Cameron]

I had my issues like we all do. But I am confident Kunlun is a good practice. That doesn't mean it's a good practice for everyone. I just don't buy the idea that the lineage is dark per se, as some people seem to suggest.

 

imo, it is a quick path to awakening but you still have to do your own work. Just because you have some realization doesn't mean there arent still years of practice and well-just living life- that is necissary to mature and develop ones understanding.

 

In any case, follow your heart to what is right for you.

[lifeforce]

Thanks Cam for opening up about your experience with Kunlun. It's refreshing to hear about a practice that has worked out.

I remember before I joined TTB, I used to browse the forums, there were loads of Kunlun threads. Then they just sorta died out gradually.

I was always intrigued and interested but I never got around to trying the practice or getting the book.

Now that the book is unavailable, I find myself wanting to give it a go. Typical.

[joeblast]

Cam you are an awesome testament to the benefits of sticking with a practice! Many others would have given up on your path when the path was rougher, but it seems as though you're enjoying commensurate clarity these days as a result of your efforts. Drinks on me whenever you make it back this way, whether it winds up being tea or beer, who knows

[Birch]

I think that folks who figure awakening as always being a blissful walk in the park ought to do a bit more research before embarking upon practices designed to do it very fast.

I recall finding many "teachers" energies to be dark. But that's because I am also dark myself. I'm also light btw, no use leaning too heavily on one nor t'other.

When I "thought" of Max, the image of a black torquemaeda came to me. But having done a bit of qi-gong, i've found that people like to wear weird dresses for their own reasons. And some folks just have "vibes". The only thing i thought that happened with Kunlun was that folks didn't get lots of access to the teachers when "stuff" happened. I wonder also if the practices themselves carry more risk for "syndromes" of various types but i think many of them do if you get into them.

[thelerner]

I noticed some talk going on regarding Kunlun Nei Gung. The school of one of my dear teachers Max Christensen. I don't have any opinion on the experience of others-their experience is their experience-but would like to share some of my thoughts on the subject. I think it might be good timing since it is exactly four years ago since I took my first workshop with Max.

 

Cameron

 

Thanks for sharing Cam.

How has your practice of Kunlun changed over the years? I'm talking about frequency, length and breakdown between 'active' and rest period.

 

Early on it seemed to 'overload' you. How does the practice feel to you now.

 

Thanks

Michael

[joeblast]

I think that folks who figure awakening as always being a blissful walk in the park ought to do a bit more research before embarking upon practices designed to do it very fast.

I recall finding many "teachers" energies to be dark. But that's because I am also dark myself. I'm also light btw, no use leaning too heavily on one nor t'other.

When I "thought" of Max, the image of a black torquemaeda came to me. But having done a bit of qi-gong, i've found that people like to wear weird dresses for their own reasons. And some folks just have "vibes". The only thing i thought that happened with Kunlun was that folks didn't get lots of access to the teachers when "stuff" happened. I wonder also if the practices themselves carry more risk for "syndromes" of various types but i think many of them do if you get into them.

Sometimes people dont want to hear "just keep practicing" and want explicit life instruction instead If you dont want to listen to your teacher, then perhaps another path is more amenable to one's situation. Its doubly, triply tough if you dont trust your teacher or dont have faith in their intuition or the methods shared.

[ronko]

I think the dark element people where experiencing during there kunlun practise

was there own negative energys being released ,

ill always remember an event that happened to me last year

when i was practising kunlun ,

 

my partner can see energy , she's very fine tuned ,

i had not seen her for a while and had being doing the kunlun basic position for a week or so,

the day we met up she could see a cloud of black dense smog over the whole left side of my face and shoulders ,

she asked what the hell i had been up too !

she came back to mine and the same dense energy smog was in my room too ,

we cleared it but it just goes to show how much the practise actually releases !

[Sloppy Zhang]

Great to hear from you, cam. I followed a lot of the kunlun threads in the past, but never really commented. Never made it to a kunlun seminar myself. From what I recall, things really were touch and go with you for a good while. Really glad to see it all evened out for you. And yes, I do think you're a great testament to "sticking with" a practice.

 

I tend to favor the "downward flow, water, releasing, opening up" type practices. The ones I'm involved with primarily (B.K. Frantzis) encourage taking it sloooooooooow. Sometimes frustratingly, stagnantly slow. But even with them I've opened up and released some stuff, and have experienced some freaky things. And that's at a slow pace (as in, one scary thing every 6-8 months). Thanks to reading about Kunlun, I figured that's what it was, took note of it, but then let it go and moved on. I think I'm better for it.

 

But good lord, I couldn't imagine going through those experiences one after another in a hyper drive day in, night in, day out, night out kind of way. And that's the thing- thanks to TTB's, I had a pretty good grasp of what was going on, but I was still freaked out! I couldn't imagine a newbie going through that and not coming close to a total breakdown.

 

I think witch is on to something with pointing out that more experienced people had, overall, better impressions of Kunlun (I recalled a lot of "it's just another releasing and letting go practice, no big deal"), than some of the people who seemed to have had less experience/years of quality practice who came to it and were like "zomg freaking out right now". Buuuuuuuuut that's just me getting the impressions from removed sources (the internet ).

 

Anyway, good to hear a 4 year report!

Edited September 18, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

Nice to hear your 4 year report, Camz.

_/\_

[RiverSnake]

I have heard so many bad things about Kunlun. I'm glad that an actual practitioner has come along and shared his experiences rather than proposing theories.

 

-Peace

[Cameron]

Thanks guys,

 

Well, I am more grounded for one thing. Kunlun is a practice that can very quickly open up your higher centers. But you want to make sure to keep your body/mind connection always well balanced and integrated.

 

Probably a good reason traditionally Taoists would do lots and lots of body practices to balance the meditation/alchemy stuff.

 

It's like driving a car. Another practice might just get the acceleration going a little when you push on it. When I push on Kunlun it goes 0 to 60 very quick

 

So it's like someone learning a martial art or new sport or something. You need to gauge how much practice is required. For some people doing it 5 days a week every night might bo ok. For others maybe once month is enough!

 

The Red Phoenix seems to keep moving into deeper channels and keeps opening things up. Lately I have been feeling it very deeply in the tan tiens. It's a very different feeling than building qi up as in the traditional qigong model. With Kunlun it's like you tap into these portals inside your tan tiens and just open up the flood gatesof energy(friends of mine like joeblast can probably explain better).

 

You tap into this frequency-what I remember Max calling "one law" I think. And just keep letting go. I feel lighter, more fresh, more clarity after every Kunlun practice.

 

If you listen to the interview of Kan San on http://www.primordialalchemist.com/

He gives a good explanation of some of the deeper feelings you can experience. As well as some insight into the state of being of a high level practitioner. I am still just taking off the training wheels

[Mal]

4 years later!! (feeling older every day )

 

always good to hear from you Cam, Your posts feel solid and strong.

 

Edited September 19, 2011 by Mal Stainkey

[Birch]

Sometimes people dont want to hear "just keep practicing" and want explicit life instruction instead If you dont want to listen to your teacher, then perhaps another path is more amenable to one's situation. Its doubly, triply tough if you dont trust your teacher or dont have faith in their intuition or the methods shared.

Good point JB. I don't think i see a problem with teachers making stuff amenable to folks. Like Cameron said, it's like learning to drive. My other POV is that teachers have to earn trust to some extent (i have in mind a lot of the cult/guru scandals over the years). IMO teachers should be impeccable. Having "faith" blind is IMO every bit as stupid as mistrusting blind:-).

[thelerner]

Good point JB. I don't think i see a problem with teachers making stuff amenable to folks. Like Cameron said, it's like learning to drive. My other POV is that teachers have to earn trust to some extent (i have in mind a lot of the cult/guru scandals over the years). IMO teachers should be impeccable. Having "faith" blind is IMO every bit as stupid as mistrusting blind:-).

I agree with you about the problems of blind faith. But, I don't think teachers have to be impeccable. If you're human you have foibles. Maybe a lower standard of good caring person (but not tooo caring), expertise in their field in theory and practice.

[Birch]

I agree with you about the problems of blind faith. But, I don't think teachers have to be impeccable. If you're human you have foibles. Maybe a lower standard of good caring person (but not tooo caring), expertise in their field in theory and practice.

 

It's funny (I mean 'weird'). I'd anticipated that 'human' aspect of a potential answer and thought about putting it in, then I figured I was being a bit presuming.

I happen to disagree somewhat. But maybe just in the details. By all means be human (no choice, right ;-)).

 

However, in your dealings with people who have come to you to learn (aka 'students') be impeccable. By that I mean not letting yourself take advantage of people in any way, any way at all. I'm not talking about lessons you set up so I'll fall into them and learn something because I fell. If you're not impeccable in your dealings with me, you're not impeccable with anyone, so why teach me the way(s) of so-called immortals and 'real humans' that at some point require impeccability (IMO/IME)? Who am I going to learn that from? Not you. (I don't mean 'you' personally' btw :-)).

 

I guess you can tell I feel pretty strongly about teachers :-) Huge responsibility - especially with spiritual stuff IMO/IME. I feel the same way about anyone who intervenes in mind/body/spirit...

 

I don't think Max set himself up like that, however. He was (is he still?) teaching techniques to what seemed like a lot of people but maybe he only had a couple/a few students that went further.

[Cameron]

I am glad to see my post may have been helpful to some of you. My intention is just to share some of my own experience and cast some light on things.

 

Max remains very accessible still and if your genuinely interested I would say forget about wasting time on these discussions and just make the effort to see him. If you have so many doubts about studying Kunlun then maybe that would be a sign that it isn't the right practice for you.

 

In any case, to summarize my view-great teacher, great practitioners in the lineage. If your not ready to take responsibilty for yourself and experience more of who you really are don't waste your own or the teachers time.

 

Aloha!

[hagar]

I am glad to see my post may have been helpful to some of you. My intention is just to share some of my own experience and cast some light on things.

 

Max remains very accessible still and if your genuinely interested I would say forget about wasting time on these discussions and just make the effort to see him. If you have so many doubts about studying Kunlun then maybe that would be a sign that it isn't the right practice for you.

 

In any case, to summarize my view-great teacher, great practitioners in the lineage. If your not ready to take responsibilty for yourself and experience more of who you really are don't waste your own or the teachers time.

 

Aloha!

 

Great to hear from you again Cam

 

h

[Cameron]

Cheers hagar:)

[宁]

the fact that you yourself became a teacher, you were looked up to, became a model for other people, this is what really changed you, no amount of meditation can replace that, because life itself takes many more hours a day of your time than any of the practices you would ever do. your own merit is that you stood up to the challenge of being a model and turned into one, over time.

[Cameron]

My students in Korea and China have been some of my best teachers

Edited September 29, 2011 by Cameron

[xenolith]

Hi Cameron,

 

So glad am I to observe your transformation.

 

Well upon your path you clearly are.

 

Smilingly yours,

 

xeno

Edited September 30, 2011 by xenolith

[Cameron]

Thank you.

 

We all have our own unique path and challenges to face. I think the more I know the more I know I don't know. So relaxing and letting our own understanding develop while not forcing our understanding on others is important.

 

Perhaps finding the right spiritual practice or teacher is not unlike trying to find a good partner. Someone who might be great match for one person might not for another. One size doesn't fit all. We should develop compassion and see from a wider view.

 

I think I have said all I will say here on this subject again.

 

Cameron

[mat black]

We all have our own unique path and challenges to face. I think the more I know the more I know I don't know. So relaxing and letting our own understanding develop while not forcing our understanding on others is important.

 

Perhaps finding the right spiritual practice or teacher is not unlike trying to find a good partner. Someone who might be great match for one person might not for another. One size doesn't fit all. We should develop compassion and see from a wider view.

Agree with every word here Cam, especially:

 

"Relaxing and letting our understanding develop" = Nothing forced..... > gentle effort...sincerity...patience towards ourselves and others.....>......compassion to ourselves and others = peace allround.

Edited October 2, 2011 by mat black