Kunlun:4 Years later

[liminal_luke]

[Cameron]

Yes but I think its best not to conceptualize it too much. It's a very 'direct experience' oriented system. When talking about the alchemical side of things Max has always said opening the heart is a big part of the process.

 

Also, a final note on this and I will be logging off here foe awhile. If your doing Kunlun on your own before seeing Max please take your time and ease into it. Max suggested to me when I spoke with him recently to practice not more then 4 times a week. And I have been at it for 4 years. Your nervous system needs time to adjust when practicing Kunlun. I would say if your practicing on your own from the book a couple times a week would be enough. And then see how you feel.

 

If you see Max then you will learn and recieve the Red Phoenix and that adds another dimension to it.

 

Or, if you end up studying with another teacher who shares similar methods have fun and see where that takes you

 

Cheers!

[konchog uma]

I definitely agree that balance is good, but there is another distinction that I think needs to be made here. There are the normal currents of energy in the body, related to ordinary processes of maintaining the function of the human form, and there are the more profound flows related to deep spiritual transformation. I don't think you can really deal with these two in the same way.

 

thats a neat observation I agree with it. I am not really trying to tweak the normal currents of energy in the body. I feel that by letting go of rigid mental patterns and energetic blockages, my body's normal currents are going to naturally do what they need to do. But as to the more profound flows, I have been experimenting with moving energy up my taiji pole in the AM (and down the outside of my energy field, like a magnet) and then gently letting it switch around noon to flow downwards. I do this with counterclockwise and clockwise rotations of the profound subtle energies within my body, specifically chakras. I have a complex chakra system which would take a little more time to explain than i have right now, but at its root, it involves giving them commandments! (nice ones) and programs of what to do and how/when to act. I just told them to gently reverse their flow at noon and midnight, and it has worked pretty well so far. I have not felt any aMAzing effects, but I didn't expect to. I feel subtly better, and on a gut level, I feel that its beneficial to my energies to do this, but nothing concrete yet.

[balance.]

 

You should see Max in the States or Kan San in Japan for the transmission.

 

 

I'll be seeing Max in ten(!) days.... Tremendously excited.

 

 

 

 

 

* Oh, and any bums going to be in attendance? 22-23 in California?

Edited October 13, 2011 by balance.

[Cameron]

Enjoy

[Protector]

Yeah uh so, I'm too new here to know anything about Kunlun so can somebody send me a message describing the practice and what the beginner posture looks like or something.

[realfastcat]

Yeah uh so, I'm too new here to know anything about Kunlun so can somebody send me a message describing the practice and what the beginner posture looks like or something.

If you go to the Cherokee Immortal thread and look at posts #49 & 52. If I am not mistaken the blissful looking woman is holding Kunlun 1 posture. If I am incorrect about this, Please someone correct me.

[Protector]

If that's the one then I understand the whole waterfall talk, thanks

[Aetherous]

Sorta incorrect...but correct enough to give a basic idea. If you are interested in it, get instruction from Max or one of his apprentices/facilitators/instructors.

[taodancing]

 

I am pretty decisively opposed to any and all ideas and practices of "enlightenment." I think they are reptilian obsessions that have nothing to do with our species. If your blood is cold you have to be a sun/light/fire worshiper, sit on a hot stone under the blazing sun in self-hypnotic immobility till you get some energy going. That's "enlightenment" stripped of PR. If you're a snake, a lizard, a chameleon... the sun goes down, darkness descends, your blood cools off, you can't do shit. That's when the hot-blooded, nocturnal cat comes out of her hiding place... and eats you.

 

So, immortality is in, enlightenment is out. An interplay of light and darkness -- that's in. Life is derived from both, whether temporal or eternal. Exclusion of one in favor of the other is a ruse.

 

 

That how I feel too, with regard to enlightenment & immortality. Thanks for expressing it.

[mYTHmAKER]

That how I feel too, with regard to enlightenment & immortality. Thanks for expressing it.

 

This question is for everyone

What is one like having achieved immortality

What does it mean to be an immortal

[thelerner]

This question is for everyone

What is one like having achieved immortality

Well I've achieved immorality. Its very freeing, no second guessing your self. No worries about conscience.

 

 

 

Wait a second. Did you say immorality or immortality?? Never mind.

[mYTHmAKER]

Well I've achieved immorality. Its very freeing, no second guessing your self. No worries about conscience.

 

 

 

Wait a second. Did you say immorality or immortality?? Never mind.

 

I'm glad someone takes me seriously

[Patrick Brown]

What's Kunlun?

 

HAHAHA

 

[Ish]

funny about 7--11! With WLP you go to a Chinese place of business, and if you've been to those grocery/tea/herbs/acupuncture/massage/moxa joints in Chinatown where you talk to the owner and discover he was a brain surgeon in China, you know what they can be like... you don't know anything about much of what they're selling, you don't know if you want it, you don't know what's there that you should be wanting but aren't aware of... but it smells good!

 

I am pretty decisively opposed to any and all ideas and practices of "enlightenment." I think they are reptilian obsessions that have nothing to do with our species. If your blood is cold you have to be a sun/light/fire worshiper, sit on a hot stone under the blazing sun in self-hypnotic immobility till you get some energy going. That's "enlightenment" stripped of PR. If you're a snake, a lizard, a chameleon... the sun goes down, darkness descends, your blood cools off, you can't do shit. That's when the hot-blooded, nocturnal cat comes out of her hiding place... and eats you.

 

So, immortality is in, enlightenment is out. An interplay of light and darkness -- that's in. Life is derived from both, whether temporal or eternal. Exclusion of one in favor of the other is a ruse.

 

MHO, of course.

 

More later, gotta go...

 

I don't get your analogy of enlightenment practices. Have not many people became Arhats (enlightened) without energy practices?

 

On your last paragraph I always thought Taoist immortality WAS excluding "darkness" and attaining an immortal Yang spirit. Maybe Master Wang Liping's system is something else entirely?

 

Interesting, thanks.

[konchog uma]

I don't get your analogy of enlightenment practices. Have not many people became Arhats (enlightened) without energy practices?

 

On your last paragraph I always thought Taoist immortality WAS excluding "darkness" and attaining an immortal Yang spirit. Maybe Master Wang Liping's system is something else entirely?

 

Interesting, thanks.

 

Master Hua Ching Ni says darkness is lower level and don't be confused about "accepting everything as natural" because at the level of oneness (taiji) there is no darkness. So if there is darkness accept darkness, but in order to become enlightened or immortal one can not cultivate any darkness in themselves.

[Cameron]

Suprisingly, I have gotten messages asking where to get more information on Kunlun.

 

Max's site is primordialalchemist.com

 

Also, I feel the need to say something. It's fine to have strong opinions about teachers. I like to tell my students here in Asia not to be robots but think for yourself! Max has always expressed this to me. So much so I would be fine disagreeing with him about something. I don't take every word my teacher says as the word of God.

 

But as a practitioner and someone who is trying to improve myself I think you can still always conduct yourself in a respectful, courteous way. Yes, we fail sometimes. Just look around at posts here on Taobums and you can see basic good manners are often lacking. But I think it's the intention behind it that's important.

 

As I heard someone say 'pay attention not to what people say but what they do',

 

Best wishes,

 

Cameron

[Taomeow]

I don't get your analogy of enlightenment practices. Have not many people became Arhats (enlightened) without energy practices?

 

On your last paragraph I always thought Taoist immortality WAS excluding "darkness" and attaining an immortal Yang spirit. Maybe Master Wang Liping's system is something else entirely?

 

Interesting, thanks.

 

Well, I expressed my own understanding and have to take full responsibility... I don't know what Master Wang thinks about enlightenment, it just never came up. He does teach (as part of the system) a practice of gathering some light inward, but this light is your very own -- what you personally have dispersed and lost in the world because of the way the world is (and of the way you are in response to the state of the world.) You want it back, that's the idea. Much like if you lost you health you would want it back before tackling immortality... if you lost your spiritual health, your "supernatural intellect" (ling), which does manifest as a kind of light, you want it back. Not for "enlightenment" but for wholeness, which may well be another word for immortality, since wholeness in taoism presupposes cyclic change and return, not "arrival" at any particular destination. Only things that are not whole, not complete, fall off and die. Anything that is a complete cycle is immortal. Or anyone.

 

Light without darkness is not a complete cycle. Remember, it's dark inside every pregnant belly... including tao's. If you want anything to emerge into the light, you ask the nurturing darkness for this favor. Omit this step -- and everything dies before it ever had a chance to get born. Luckily, tao does not permit for this scenario both arrogant and deadly. She only permits for light AND darkness. Not either-or. Both.

 

There's many schools of taoism that have been heavily influenced by "enlightenment" paradigms of different systems. I think they've simply been infiltrated... but that's just me.

[Taomeow]

Master Hua Ching Ni says darkness is lower level and don't be confused about "accepting everything as natural" because at the level of oneness (taiji) there is no darkness. So if there is darkness accept darkness, but in order to become enlightened or immortal one can not cultivate any darkness in themselves.

 

Well, "taiji" is the level of duality (yin-yang), the level of oneness is "wuji," and the definitive authority on that is not master Hua Ching Ni of a heavily buddhist-influenced tradition. Wuji is not part of the buddhist tradition, and taoism proper has never ascribed "light, no darkness" features to it. What taoism proper knows about it is that it is "unmanifest" -- nothing is manifest, not light, not darkness, at the level of oneness. Hijacking wuji to promote the pro-light anti-dark agenda has complex historic roots worth studying. I have...

[konchog uma]

Well, "taiji" is the level of duality (yin-yang), the level of oneness is "wuji," and the definitive authority on that is not master Hua Ching Ni of a heavily buddhist-influenced tradition. Wuji is not part of the buddhist tradition, and taoism proper has never ascribed "light, no darkness" features to it. What taoism proper knows about it is that it is "unmanifest" -- nothing is manifest, not light, not darkness, at the level of oneness. Hijacking wuji to promote the pro-light anti-dark agenda has complex historic roots worth studying. I have...

 

Taomeow,

 

Thanks for your thoughts,

 

I thought that taiji was yin and yang together as one, and that wuji was emptiness or void. Like zero. The way some teachers explain it, yin and yang are two, taiji is one, and wuji is zero.

 

I wasn't implying that Hua Ching Ni was the definitive authority on those things, just that he had said that. Its clear that different sects and schools think different things. So naturally, that is just one opinion on the subject.

[Ish]

Well, I expressed my own understanding and have to take full responsibility... I don't know what Master Wang thinks about enlightenment, it just never came up. He does teach (as part of the system) a practice of gathering some light inward, but this light is your very own -- what you personally have dispersed and lost in the world because of the way the world is (and of the way you are in response to the state of the world.) You want it back, that's the idea. Much like if you lost you health you would want it back before tackling immortality... if you lost your spiritual health, your "supernatural intellect" (ling), which does manifest as a kind of light, you want it back. Not for "enlightenment" but for wholeness, which may well be another word for immortality, since wholeness in taoism presupposes cyclic change and return, not "arrival" at any particular destination. Only things that are not whole, not complete, fall off and die. Anything that is a complete cycle is immortal. Or anyone.

 

Light without darkness is not a complete cycle. Remember, it's dark inside every pregnant belly... including tao's. If you want anything to emerge into the light, you ask the nurturing darkness for this favor. Omit this step -- and everything dies before it ever had a chance to get born. Luckily, tao does not permit for this scenario both arrogant and deadly. She only permits for light AND darkness. Not either-or. Both.

 

There's many schools of taoism that have been heavily influenced by "enlightenment" paradigms of different systems. I think they've simply been infiltrated... but that's just me.

 

Thanks for responding.

Off topic but maybe you can clarify..

Consistently in my meditation a bright golden/whitish light fills my internal vision, Im not currently dealing with any visualisation and I don't aim to produce any experiences so is this a natural manifestation of the "ling"?

 

Another thing I noticed is if I am suddenly disturbed while in this "state" the light suddenly disperses/scatters or shifts, I don't find this pleasent.

[Owledge]

@Taomeow

Wow, thank you for pointing out something obvious that I missed to realize: that the Ba Zi chart also shows which energy is prevalent in a whole year. Now seeing that 2010 and 2011 are both metal years (correct?), it's no surprise that my attempts at growth - even after learning Kunlun Nei Gung - have been so frustrating. You just helped me looking a little more positive at the coming year.

Question: What relevance does the lower element in the chart have regarding this?

And how powerful are the influences of year, month, day and hour compared to each other? Equal?

And can you recommend a tool for calculating this into the future? The Ba Zi calculator I use won't do that.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Hardyg

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Taomeow]

@Taomeow

Wow, thank you for pointing out something obvious that I missed to realize: that the Ba Zi chart also shows which energy is prevalent in a whole year. Now seeing that 2010 and 2011 are both metal years (correct?), it's no surprise that my attempts at growth - even after learning Kunlun Nei Gung - have been so frustrating. You just helped me looking a little more positive at the coming year.

Question: What relevance does the lower element in the chart have regarding this?

And how powerful are the influences of year, month, day and hour compared to each other? Equal?

And can you recommend a tool for calculating this into the future? The Ba Zi calculator I use won't do that.

 

thanks for noticing!

 

The lower element is the Earthly Branch. The upper is the Heavenly Stem. You can get a great match -- e.g. Water in the Stem and Wood in the Branch, and it will translate into a year where heaven nourishes earth, a good year. Or you can get, e.g., a conflict situation -- Metal in the Stem and Wood in the Branch, a stern control situation -- heavenly qi controlling earthly qi. So, in the stem-branch interactions, the nature of the relationship between the phases will play out -- when mother-child phases get to be paired up, the best year will be with mother above and child below, a worse one vice versa, and then you can get a grandmother-grandchild stem-branch interactions and they will be about control (grandmother on top) or rebellion (grandchild on top). The year 2012 will be heavenly Water over earthly Earth -- this is rebellion... Earth is supposed to control Water, but with Water on top it won't be controlled easily.

 

The influences of the phases are the most powerful in the Day-master. I.e. the qi of the day takes precedence over all else.

 

Calculating into the future -- get a Chinese almanac, or learn to do it by hand (some teachers teach how), or figure it out -- you get a cycle of generation, you get a yang year followed by a yin year for each phase, you have 10 stems and 12 branches -- start with any known overlap (e.g. with 2012 in which I just told you what the qi will be like -- oh, and it's yang) and chart as far as you have the patience.

 

But there's tons to know besides that -- I usually wind up bailing out of these topics because there's no bottom... you take a step and it leads deeper into the rabbit hole! Anyway, the main energy in an individual life is that of the day (in the life of the cosmos it's bigger, obviously...), so you need to learn a few things about how to assess that and, what's more important, follow up. Think of it this way. Imagine you're painting a portrait of the year -- say, of the Dragon ruling the year. The qi of the year is the canvas, the size of your dragon will be limited by its dimensions... the qi of the month is your palette and your brushes... and the qi of the day is where you paint the eye on your portrait! -- and the qi of the hour is... a sudden phone call and you're startled and your hand smears a nasty streak across the painting, or, alternatively, you get a sudden moment of divine inspiration and you add a stroke that turns the work of an amateur into a work of genius... but more often, all that happens within the hour is just a slight shift in the light, is all. It all depends.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

......

Also, I feel the need to say something. It's fine to have strong opinions about teachers. I like to tell my students here in Asia not to be robots but think for yourself! ......

 

...... As I heard someone say 'pay attention not to what people say but what they do',

 

Best wishes,

 

Cameron

 

 

"take everything..." you hear and read "with but a grain of salt." and your perceptions of truth become clearer.

 

"actions speak louder than words"

 

 

Simple truths, profound implications.

 

In all things, practice takes paitence.

In medicine, practice takes patients...