The Underwater Atlantean Cities found off the coast of Cuba

[Everything]

Fiveelementtao... Relax man...

 

Immortal4life is just posting some stuff here. Have you considered maybe that he posted it all for me? Someone who is interested in these things, but doesn't know many sources of info.

 

I know that changing your believes is annoying, I've been trough that aswell. Alot of religious people are left brained even.

 

What immort4life is hinting at is the universal law. You cannot know it if you do not go trough the spiritual experience of your last change in believe. Usually, the resistance is biggest here. When you understand that everything you believe is fake, that this is the constant truth, only then can you grow towards the light. Then these wise sources of information will pop up, place the light right in front of you and you will not be closed to it. When you believe that everything is fake, it doesn't matter what you believe. Human nature then constantly addepts his reality towards a better one, more loving, more kind, constantly improving on the truth. Ever changing, an eternall journey towards the light that is promised to never end. Heaven... We shall be like the children of the light one day, if not our grand children or theirs. Why not become a child of the light today, right now. Know that everything you believe is fake. This is the only believe that is real.

 

When you do not resist any new information given to you, in this experience and this present moment. Then naturally the truth arises out of this chaotic state and darkness is illuminated. When you latch on to this truth, you will become blind. No better more truthful truth will be able to replace it. Never latch on to your truth. Always recall that everything is fake. This is the only way of balance. The last awakening of human civilization is within the universal law of everything being fake. This law shall levitate the people towards the heavens. No matter how many lifetimes he's been stuck in his hell.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Everything

[fiveelementtao]

Fiveelementtao... Relax man...

I am relaxed.

 

This isn't about resisting or changing beliefs or whatever else you are trying to make this about... it's about forum etiquette.

There is no need for multiple threads every week on the same subject. If you like what he posts and it is just for you and no one else... great. More power to you... Just put it all into one thread and you guys can chat about it all you want..

 

Once again, Everything, you are feeling the need to defend someone else. I4L is perfectly capable of speaking for himself...

Edited September 21, 2011 by fiveelementtao

[Aetherous]

Fiveelementtao... Relax man...

 

Really.

 

I like these threads.

[Everything]

I am relaxed.

 

This isn't about resisting or changing beliefs or whatever else you are trying to make this about... it's about forum etiquette.

There is no need for multiple threads every week on the same subject. If you like what he posts and it is just for you and no one else... great. More power to you... Just put it all into one thread and you guys can chat about it all you want..

 

Once again, Everything, you are feeling the need to defend someone else. I4L is perfectly capable of speaking for himself...

If he didn't posted it, I would have not come across it. Very unlikely.

 

I am very greatful for immortal4life posting this. Thus, you should be happy for me!

 

I'm sorry if I'm too forward about this, or if it seems I'm attacking you and defending immortal4life. I wish I could take it back, but I can't. Don't even remember why I wrote it.

[Everything]

Really.

 

I like these threads.

Yeah, me aswell. I take great interest in physics. Great Physicians take great interest in mathematics and wisdom of ancients. The worlds most influential people were all masons. Wether it was constructive or destructive influence... There needs to be a balance. Thus, I believe there is a current need for constructive people to learn about these ancient wisdoms.

 

Divine geometry, numerology, etc. Are all fascinating things. The nature of the universe, what we are, why, why, and more why. We have to be naive and keeping asking these naive questions. Never believing the truth you find, to constantly grow towards a more universal truth.

 

Allot of stuff is kept secret for many reasons. The student whk is eager to learn will always receieve a teacher. Where the ears of a student hears, the teacher comes and fills it with wisdom.

[Immortal4life]

Thank you for the positive replies.

 

There should be something for everybody. See the wide range of takes here. For some this is about Mythology, to others it is about Creationism, to others it is about Freemasonry. The cool thing, is it is all of these things and more.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Immortal4life

[fiveelementtao]

Thank you for the positive replies.

 

There should be something for everybody. See the wide range of takes here. For some this is about Mythology, to others it is about Creationism, to others it is about Freemasonry. The cool thing, is it is all of these things and more.

 

Why will you not answer questions about your personal agenda? We all have one. So, what's yours? Can you at least confirm or deny whether or not you are a creationist Christian? Why the secrecy? If you choose not to answer, I will assume that you are a christian seeking to find converts on a taoist forum. I know others feel similarly. If we are mistaken, there is no reason to avoid the question. If you are a fundamentalist seeking to convert people to christianity, that would be the only reason I can think of why you would avoid the question...

 

So, are you or not?

[Immortal4life]

The reason I did not answer any specific questions was that my time was limited yesterday.

 

No I am not Christian, I don't follow the bible, and my interest in Human Origins and the Origins of Life has nothing to do with Christianity.

[fiveelementtao]

The reason I did not answer any specific questions was that my time was limited yesterday.

 

No I am not Christian, I don't follow the bible, and my interest in Human Origins and the Origins of Life has nothing to do with Christianity.

Thank you. I appreciate your honesty in answering that question. OK, so that I and others can now have a better appreciation of your posts, what then is your agenda? How does it benefit you and us to dissuade people from evolution?

 

I do not mean any aggression in this post. But, I believe that knowing one's agendas and those of others helps to establish common ground. So, this is the background of these questions now.

 

It is clear that you feel very strongly about this. It is clear that you feel that this information is extremely important or you would not keep raising the same issues over and over again. It is clear that you feel that we need this information for our spiritual well being. That is why you keep coming across as a religious fundamentalist. You do understand that in your zeal to prove your beliefs you frequently use extremely questionable sources. You also use very vague ( albeit interesting) evidence from which you make very large leaps in conclusions. i.e. Visual anomolies on video which you then present as irrefutable evidence of prehistoric civilizations which you then state as irrefutable evidence against evolution... For example, some strange looking lines on a video of a sea floor does not necessitate the conclusions you arrive at.

 

If in fact your beliefs that the theory of evolution is somehow harmful to our spiritual well being and if in fact you really are concerned about helping people understand their true origins, I believe it is in your best interest to be more objective in your research and less eager to jump to conclusions that only favor your understandings...

 

my interest in Human Origins and the Origins of Life

I have these same interests, but my conclusions are very different than yours. What I don't understand is why the theory of evolution is perceived by you as such a dangerous threat to your beliefs. If you were a fundamentalist christian, it would make sense because you would have a very specific religious agenda to promote and defend. You obviously have an agenda that colors your interpretations and drives your research, I just don't know what it is. It appears that your agenda is a religous or spiritual one otherwise, I do not think you would care so much about proving it to others. If I knew what your agenda was, it might make me more willing to listen to you.

 

If you're not a christian, then, who cares if we are descended from aliens or God created us or if the gods decided to spend aeons crafting bodies that could then house divine intelligence? That is what evolution is to me. You haven't stated what your belief is and why evolution is so threatening to your belief. This makes you appear that you are hiding something and it engenders distrust against you especially from people like me who were raised in fundamentalist christian homes...

 

I guess I am saying that from your posts I get the feeling that there is a desperation and a disconnect somewhere in your motivations that creates such an intensity in you that you are willing to overlook objectivity and grasp at anything and everything to support your beliefs even if the evidence does not support them. and then you feel the need to barrage us with your very unsubstantiated conclusions. And even though some on this forum may take a casual interest in some "evidence" you bring here, I still don't know what bearing any of it has on the intended focus of this forum which is energetic and spiritual cultivation... You don't share any of your meditative or cultivation practices, so I don't know what you have in common with people here.

 

I guess I am saying that if you really want to be taken seriously by more people, I suggest a more sober and rational approach to your research and the presentation of your ideas. I especially suggest against sweeping conclusions like "The tree of life is thoroughly debunked" perhaps replace it with headlines like, "strange evidence raises questions into our origins" Then I think people like me would be less irritated with your posts and want to attack your credibility or motives... Anyway something to think about.

[Immortal4life]

Thank you. I appreciate your honesty in answering that question. OK, so that I and others can now have a better appreciation of your posts, what then is your agenda? How does it benefit you and us to dissuade people from evolution?

 

If evolution and scientific materialism are true then there is no objective spirituality. Believing in spirituality is just an illusion, a mechanism that has evolved in human brains due to some sort of survival or other benefit. Spiritual experiences are just due to brain chemicals. Compassion is just altruism now and only exists because it had a benefit to groups and tribes.

 

I want to make this point here clearly, because later you indulge in one of the most common types of double think shown by those who wish to merge evolution and spirituality. There cannot be purpose or meaning in the world if evolution is true. Evolution, by it's very nature, rules out any type of divine plan or purpose. Evolution has no plan. Either you believe in evolution, or you believe there is meaning and purpose, but to believe in both is intellectual dishonesty. It even rules out freewill. Even what you believe are your own choices, are actually dictated by your genes and survival mechanisms. Even your culture and upbringing all have genetic survival mechanisms behind them. Remember evolution is a blind process. Anything else is intelligent design.

 

No Gods, No life after death, No ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no human freewill. I think you can see how that is relevant not only to Christianity, but to all Sprirituality

 

 

I do not mean any aggression in this post. But, I believe that knowing one's agendas and those of others helps to establish common ground. So, this is the background of these questions now.

 

It is clear that you feel very strongly about this. It is clear that you feel that this information is extremely important or you would not keep raising the same issues over and over again. It is clear that you feel that we need this information for our spiritual well being. That is why you keep coming across as a religious fundamentalist. You do understand that in your zeal to prove your beliefs you frequently use extremely questionable sources. You also use very vague ( albeit interesting) evidence from which you make very large leaps in conclusions. i.e. Visual anomolies on video which you then present as irrefutable evidence of prehistoric civilizations which you then state as irrefutable evidence against evolution... For example, some strange looking lines on a video of a sea floor does not necessitate the conclusions you arrive at.

 

This is only your own opinion. I would say what I have offered is much more substantial than "strange looking lines". What is the strongest point here though, is that I have provided independent corroboration from so many different independent sources. When Independent sources come to similar conclusions, you cannot brush it off so easily.

 

If in fact your beliefs that the theory of evolution is somehow harmful to our spiritual well being and if in fact you really are concerned about helping people understand their true origins, I believe it is in your best interest to be more objective in your research and less eager to jump to conclusions that only favor your understandings...

 

That is your style, and while I may consider this advice, I think in the end my style is just different from yours.

 

I have these same interests, but my conclusions are very different than yours. What I don't understand is why the theory of evolution is perceived by you as such a dangerous threat to your beliefs. If you were a fundamentalist christian, it would make sense because you would have a very specific religious agenda to promote and defend. You obviously have an agenda that colors your interpretations and drives your research, I just don't know what it is. It appears that your agenda is a religous or spiritual one otherwise, I do not think you would care so much about proving it to others. If I knew what your agenda was, it might make me more willing to listen to you.

 

If you're not a christian, then, who cares if we are descended from aliens or God created us

 

I will stop you right there and say you do have an argument there. You could say all that matters to spiritual development is how good of a person someone is, and how high their morality is. A person could be raised to be a good person of high moral level regardless of their beliefs. There is some truth to that.

 

However, actually beliefs always matter. At some point people are going to think for themselves. What is "good"? That can differ depending on what you believe. What is moral? That depends on your beliefs.

 

or if the gods decided to spend aeons crafting bodies that could then house divine intelligence?

 

Sorry but you have just described a type of intelligent design theory, not evolution. Evolution is a purposeless and random event.

 

Your beliefs about evolution are not how science explains the theory of evolution. The so called "theistic evolution" theory is in direct contradiciton to the scientific theory of evolution.

 

That is what evolution is to me. You haven't stated what your belief is and why evolution is so threatening to your belief. This makes you appear that you are hiding something and it engenders distrust against you especially from people like me who were raised in fundamentalist christian homes...

 

I guess I am saying that from your posts I get the feeling that there is a desperation and a disconnect somewhere in your motivations that creates such an intensity in you that you are willing to overlook objectivity and grasp at anything and everything to support your beliefs even if the evidence does not support them. and then you feel the need to barrage us with your very unsubstantiated conclusions. And even though some on this forum may take a casual interest in some "evidence" you bring here, I still don't know what bearing any of it has on the intended focus of this forum which is energetic and spiritual cultivation... You don't share any of your meditative or cultivation practices, so I don't know what you have in common with people here.

 

I guess I am saying that if you really want to be taken seriously by more people, I suggest a more sober and rational approach to your research and the presentation of your ideas. I especially suggest against sweeping conclusions like "The tree of life is thoroughly debunked" perhaps replace it with headlines like, "strange evidence raises questions into our origins" Then I think people like me would be less irritated with your posts and want to attack your credibility or motives... Anyway something to think about.

 

The thing is, this is not even a thread about Evolution. On the other thread, about the Tree of Life, I provided many sources using the same statements that I used, so it is not like I am making anything up. Why would I water down the title, when my sources use the same title? My statememnts were direct quotes from New Scientist and other mainstream sources.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Immortal4life

[fiveelementtao]

There cannot be purpose or meaning in the world if evolution is true. Evolution, by it's very nature, rules out any type of divine plan or purpose.

In your opinion perhaps...

That is a very definitive statement that is not self evident. It may be how you feel but just by stating that opinion as fact does not make it so...

However, I do not share your opinion. This is what I see missing in what you present. Many, many many people absolutely categorically disagree with your conclusion. Are we all just abunch of ignorant simpletons that can be forced into your opinons by making a bunch of unsubstantiated statements you feel are facts? The point here for me is to understand your emotional agenda behind your beliefs. That is what I want to stay focused on. I am not interested in allowing you to devolve this into the usual arguments you like to have. I am asking about YOU. I want to bring you back to my main question which is: What is YOUR personal, emotional agenda with this issue?

There cannot be purpose or meaning in the world if evolution is true. Evolution, by it's very nature, rules out any type of divine plan or purpose.

So, what I am hearing in this statement is that for you, unless there is some higher intelligence, be it a god or an alien or some other force that imposes its will upon material reality and fashions life in a very obvious way, then you feel as though you live in an empty Universe and you are alone... That is your emotional issue that I believe you are projecting onto science. IMO, I don't think you have a scientific need to understand the process of creation, you have an emotional need to prove to yourself that you are not alone in the Universe and that some higher being loves you and has a purpose for your life. Well, guess what... I have those very same beliefs and emotional needs as you do and so do many other people that you see as "materialists" but we have differing ideas on how that was done. For us, it is OK if these processes are very subtle. Just because there isn't a "made in heaven" stamp on the Universe does not negate the spiritual processes involved. In other words, just because we disagree with you does not mean we are duped or idiots...

 

Why is subtlety so frightening to you? Why must the spiritual processes that created our Universe be blatantly obvious to you? Why can you not accept the possibility that who or whatever created the Universe is humble and doesn't need you to give them credit for their ( his, her its') creation.

 

I myself don't give a rat's ass how the universe was created. I am confortable with my spirituality regardless of the literal "truth". However the Universe was created will in no way minimize the spiritual truth of my exstence... I find any "proof" interesting and if I am able to be persuaded by the objective evidence I will be happy to explore the spiritual ramifications of it.

 

I do have an agenda with you which is to try and understand the emotional roots of your obsession and my perception of you as an obsessed, frightened person who needs to prove his own agenda at any cost...

 

So, please tell me what do you believe? Who or what do you think created the Universe?

Edited September 23, 2011 by fiveelementtao

[thelerner]

There should be something for everybody. See the wide range of takes here. For some this is about Mythology, to others it is about Creationism, to others it is about Freemasonry. The cool thing, is it is all of these things and more.

There should be something for everyone. But there shouldn't be 15 threads on say Freemasonry or Greek mythology created monthly. Its overload, its borderline spammy, it hurts the flow of the site.

 

You can post the thousands of archaeology and creationist things you have. Just don't start so many threads. I'm glad you've taken the PUA stuff to Off Topic, but again 7? 8? 9? threads in a week on PUA. Why not combine them? There are a couple hundred members here, filling up a Discussion site with lots of threads where there is either no one else posting, or mostly you posting 3 out of 4 comments, is ..strange.

 

Its not that your topics are bad, its just you put up too many of them, think of consolidation sometimes.

 

 

my 2 cents, I will bow out, except for positive comments (for another month )

[Immortal4life]

In your opinion perhaps...

That is a very definitive statement that is not self evident. It may be how you feel but just by stating that opinion as fact does not make it so...

However, I do not share your opinion. This is what I see missing in what you present. Many, many many people absolutely categorically disagree with your conclusion. Are we all just abunch of ignorant simpletons that can be forced into your opinons by making a bunch of unsubstantiated statements you feel are facts? The point here for me is to understand your emotional agenda behind your beliefs. That is what I want to stay focused on. I am not interested in allowing you to devolve this into the usual arguments you like to have. I am asking about YOU. I want to bring you back to my main question which is: What is YOUR personal, emotional agenda with this issue?

 

I see that what I said went in one ear and out the other.

 

It doesn't matter whether you agree with my alleged "conclusions" and "opinions" or not. If you ever actually bother to look at or learn about what science says evolution is, you would see that it is a totally undirected process, and therefore, by definition, it cannot have a plan, purpose, or meaning.

 

This is a fact. It's not opinion.

 

If you believe anything other than that, what you believe in is Intelligent Design, not evolution. Saying evolution can have a purpose is a contradiction, and is not what scientists claim about it. If you attach any meaning and spirituality to your concept of evolution, it is no longer the theory of evolution. Evolution by definition, is purposeless and meaningless.

 

I don't believe this is about my opinion vs. your opinion here, or my conclusion vs. your conclusion. It is much more simpler than that. You are trying to say evolution is something it is not, I therefore must be clear about what evolution actually is, according to scientists, who created the theory in the first place. According to science, it is a totally undirected process with no meaning, purpose, or spirituality behind it, and it is in direct contradiction to these ideas. If meaning or spirituality existed, evolution could not happen as scientists claim it did.

 

So, what I am hearing in this statement is that for you, unless there is some higher intelligence, be it a god or an alien or some other force that imposes its will upon material reality and fashions life in a very obvious way, then you feel as though you live in an empty Universe and you are alone... That is your emotional issue that I believe you are projecting onto science. IMO, I don't think you have a scientific need to understand the process of creation, you have an emotional need to prove to yourself that you are not alone in the Universe and that some higher being loves you and has a purpose for your life. Well, guess what... I have those very same beliefs and emotional needs as you do and so do many other people that you see as "materialists" but we have differing ideas on how that was done. For us, it is OK if these processes are very subtle. Just because there isn't a "made in heaven" stamp on the Universe does not negate the spiritual processes involved. In other words, just because we disagree with you does not mean we are duped or idiots...

 

Why is subtlety so frightening to you? Why must the spiritual processes that created our Universe be blatantly obvious to you? Why can you not accept the possibility that who or whatever created the Universe is humble and doesn't need you to give them credit for their ( his, her its') creation.

 

I myself don't give a rat's ass how the universe was created. I am confortable with my spirituality regardless of the literal "truth". However the Universe was created will in no way minimize the spiritual truth of my exstence... I find any "proof" interesting and if I am able to be persuaded by the objective evidence I will be happy to explore the spiritual ramifications of it.

 

I do have an agenda with you which is to try and understand the emotional roots of your obsession and my perception of you as an obsessed, frightened person who needs to prove his own agenda at any cost...

 

So, please tell me what do you believe? Who or what do you think created the Universe?

 

I care about intellectual honesty.

 

What your "opinion" about evolution is, is not what science claims about evolution. The scientific theory of evolution claims it is a random, meaningless, and blind process. If there was a purpose or meaning behind it, it couldn't exist the way science claims it does, and it would no longer be the theory of evolution, it would be something else, it would be Intelligent Design theory. Therefore, if spirituality objectively exists then it means evolution cannot exist, and if evolution exists it means objective spirituality cannot exist.

 

From what you have written in this thread, it is clear to me that you believe in your own personal form of Intelligent Design, but you don't want to admit it because you don't want your ideas to conflict with other opposing and contradicting views, like scientific evolution.

 

So what you end up doing, is ignoring contraditions and opposing concepts, and explain them away by saying deep sounding things like "the processes are just very subtle". Attempting to explain away contradictions does not make them go away.

 

When you say "However the Universe was created will in no way minimize the spiritual truth of my exstence" it sounds like a child stomping his feet and being stubborn. It's like I say, ignoring contradctions does not make them go away. Saying "it's just my, and other people's opinion, and it's just as valid as yours" does not not justify your belief. Of course it will minimize your spirituality if it is proven to just be in your own mind, and only exist subjectively. If spiritual experiences are just chemicals in your brain reacting to evolutionary stimulus and genetic programming, that minimizes your spirituality. It means it has no inherent or intrinsic value and only has value in your own mind or value for practical evolutionary reasons.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Immortal4life

[fiveelementtao]

Dude... talk about going in one ear and out the other... I said I don't care about evolution vs intelligent design so I am not going to even address your very faulty logic in regard to these definitions..... I know those intellectual distinctions and definitions are important to you.

 

You are also being very selective and evasive as to any questions about your emotional agenda or your beliefs. Screw the rest of it I don't care about any of that stuff.

 

I know that you don't believe in Evolution and I believe I know why. I am trying to find out what you believe or what you want to believe.....

 

In your beliefs... Who created the Universe? Who created Human beings?

 

Please answer and quit avoiding the questions. The only way I am going to be able to find anything redeaming about your posts is if I understand your emotional agenda...

[Immortal4life]

The self evident fact that a blindly undirected Universe and objective spirituality are contradictions, is not faulty logic. It is the only logical conclusion.

 

To ask who Created the Universe or Human Beings is begging the question. Who is not exactly a cogent context for such a question.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Immortal4life

[fiveelementtao]

To ask who Created the Universe or Human Beings is begging the question.

My God... Quit with the evasiveness.. Just answer the question. It's not that hard.

 

Why are you so afraid to answer any personal questions?

[Aetherous]

[Immortal4life]

I can't answer it because the question is a fallacy-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

 

I think you are wanting simple answers to complex scenarios

[fiveelementtao]

I can't answer it because the question is a fallacy-

 

Jesus, dude do you smoke alot of pot or something?

 

It's not a fallacy. quit with the evasiveness. I'm not buying it for a second. I'm not asking for a scientific treatise to prove your beliefs.

 

I can answer the question very easily. Even if the answer is "I'm not sure." You may not agree with my view or you may find it too simplistic, but I can very easily answer the question. so, cut the crap..

 

You do believe something and part of that belief is hinged on the personal and emotional agenda of wanting to disprove evolution. So, help me understand you and why this is so important to you.

 

It doesn't make any sense to me that you are determined to destroy what you perceive to be the spiritually dangerous theory of evolution but then you do not offer a viable alternative. At least christians have logic to their opposition to evolution. They perceive it to be a threat. Obviously so, do you or you wouldn't be so obsessed with disproving it. I just don't know why.

 

So, humor me... Assuming you are right and the answer to my question is extremely deep and complex and my feeble little brain wouldn't understand it in it's entire grandiosity, just give me the basics of what you believe.

[Immortal4life]

The first link given in the OP is a good starting point for researching the origins of human beings.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Aetherous]

Fiveelementtao,

 

I'm about to report you for harassing and trolling (by making a bunch of off topic posts).

 

Your behavior here is confusing, and from my point of view, pointless. What's YOUR agenda here?

 

It'd be nice if you dropped it. Whatever it is.

[fiveelementtao]

The first link given in the OP is good starting point for researching the origins of human beings.

I just want to know the general direction you are coming from...

 

So, are you saying that you believe the teachings of Edgar Cayce or something similar? Please just answer, generally yes or no. Thanks

[fiveelementtao]

Fiveelementtao,

 

I'm about to report you for harassing and trolling (by making a bunch of off topic posts).

 

Your behavior here is confusing, and from my point of view, pointless. What's YOUR agenda here?

 

It'd be nice if you dropped it. Whatever it is.

Do whatever you need to do, Bra. I have not been insulting. I am generally interested in understanding him and I am not asking him anything I myself would not be willing to answer...

 

If you don't like my posts. don't read them...

[Immortal4life]

Edgar Cayce is a very intriguing and unique figure. The ability to go into a trance or sleep state, and then answer any question posed to him, is not a common ability. As you can see, in this particular subject, the subject of underwater cities, underwater finds, and the subject of Atlantis, I gave Edgar Cayce's information top billing.

 

More about it-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVCAca2r1LM

[Aetherous]

You're interested in trying to out him as a Christian fundamentalist who is trying to convert people or something, so that everyone will agree that his posts should all be placed in one thread.

 

Just knock off the silliness. If you're interested in him, try being friendly and less confrontational. If you want to have an off topic discussion, do it in PM please.

 

As for your disrespect towards me, and lack of personal honesty in your own actions within our interaction...that's noted, and I am pointing it out to you as something to work on.