[TTC Study] Chapter 72 of the Tao Teh Ching

[3bob]

...that's right ego can never destroy ego but ego can die when put before a greater, more valuable truth and seen for what it is...which is not the root of oneself.

 

also only Tao (the root of oneself) returns to no-space, while all the rest is somewhere in someplace that is under the One to Ten the Thousand.

 

And yes, I to like billions of the rest of us have designs of our own, which is why a true Sage is so very, very exceedingly and exceptionally rare...

[Marblehead]

How nice that I can agree with everything you said there 3bob.

 

And regarding the ego, we do though, need to make sure it reflects reality. Adding nor subtracting anything.

[GrandmasterP]

Fair enough this was written by management psychologists paid for by management but it does sorta define the 'leadership style' mooted in those first four lines.....

 

 

"Laissez-faire leadership, also known as delegative leadership, is a type of leadership style in which leaders are hands-off and allow group members to make the decisions. Researchers have found that this is generally the leadership style that leads to the lowest productivity among group members."

Edited August 4, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

I "Like"ed the post but I must say that I find it sad that your second paragraph is true in most cases. (I guess this is one of the reasons why Chuang Tzu, although being an Anarchist, admitted to the need for government.)

[GrandmasterP]

It's a direct quote from a report is that second para.

I'm not so sure it's right as such, managers have to justify their existence and 'who pays the piper calls the tune'.

He does seem to be advocating a Laissez Faire ( leave it alone) leadership style though IMO.

Not so sure he might be described as an anarchist in the sense we know anarchism ( Kropotkin et al ) as he implies rulership albeit a 'hands off' ruler.

If he had been an anarchist we'd likely not have had any Chapters or verses at all to discuss.

All we'd have would be agendas for and minutes of meetings.

Anarchists like meetings.

 

Edited August 4, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

Well, I'm not going to do the research so I can't talk about management any more.

 

I will stand by my opinion that Chuang Tzu was an anarchist though. Not Lao Tzu though, absolutely not.

 

And yes, Lao Tzu was recommending a Laissez Faire method of governing here in this chapter (as well as others).

[3bob]

How nice that I can agree with everything you said there 3bob.

 

And regarding the ego, we do though, need to make sure it reflects reality. Adding nor subtracting anything.

 

Ok MH and thanks for the feedback, though I'm not sure what you mean by the second line in your post above?

 

(the ego has a place and purpose but will have drop away when the rightful Master of the house returns)

[Marblehead]

... though I'm not sure what you mean by the second line in your post above?

 

(the ego has a place and purpose but will have drop away when the rightful Master of the house returns)

Yeah, I don't even know why I included it but at the time I felt it needed to be said.

 

Speaking of the ego might be taking the thread too far off topic but then it could be linked to the last three lines of the Chapter.

 

Line 5 (Henricks)

"Therefore the Sage knows himself but doesn't show himself."

 

To know oneself is to recognize one's ego, but the Sage never displays his/her ego. (Prevents others from making value judgements of the Sage.)

 

Line 6

"He cherishes himself but doesn't value himself."

 

No false ego here. (S)he takes pride in who/what they are but make no claim of superiority.

 

 

For me there is sandpaper with that last phrase of yours. (... when the rightful Master ... returns.)

 

Too close to personifying Tao for me to handle.

[3bob]

The rightful master is essence grown up beyond innocence, and for that to happen the ego has to give way for essence to make a comeback (so to speak) after it normally gets covered over by constructed ego. (using a butterfly analogy if ego or the cocoon that it is does not give way the butterfly never comes out to fly free)

Edited August 5, 2014 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

If you say so. I have never been a Sage, a Master, or a Butterfly so I have no first hand knowledge concerning this.

[GrandmasterP]

The rightful master is essence grown up beyond innocence, and for that to happen the ego has to give way for essence to make a comeback (so to speak) after it normally gets covered over by constructed ego. (using a butterfly analogy if ego or the cocoon that it is does not give way the butterfly never comes out to fly free)

 

Will there be a test?

 

[3bob]

Oh, but most of us have first-hand searching for that happiness that seems to be up around the next bend or grade in life somewhere, (otherwise and for example why would anyone be at this site or most any others for that matter?)

 

Btw, You don't have to be a Sage, Master or pretty bug to have some first hand experience of essence - at least to an "x" degree which tends to be more easily seen in younger kids playing and singing without a care, which is why we can enjoy and appreciate them if our essence isn't totally calcified over or dominated by a hard-bitten, hard-ass ego .

Edited August 5, 2014 by 3bob

[3bob]

Also "Grandmasters" shouldn't need much in the way of testing

[GrandmasterP]

Also "Grandmasters" shouldn't need much in the way of testing

 

Always test Grandmasters.

This job went to hell in a handbasket since inter-dojo challenges went out of fashion due to indemity insurance plus health n safety restrictions.

Time was anyone set up as a teacher and before too long some dudes would turn up for a fight to see who was best.

That works.

Only the MMA lads go in for that sort of thing nowadays.

 

[Stosh]

Always test Grandmasters. This job went to hell in a handbasket since inter-dojo challenges went out of fashion due to indemity insurance plus health n safety restrictions. Time was anyone set up as a teacher and before too long some dudes would turn up for a fight to see who was best. That works. Only the MMA lads go in for that sort of thing nowadays.

How do grandmasters of the soft styles do against hard styles , are they not cross purpose?

[Marblehead]

Oh, but most of us have first-hand searching for that happiness that seems to be up around the next bend or grade in life somewhere, (otherwise and for example why would anyone be at this site or most any others for that matter?)

 

Btw, You don't have to be a Sage, Master or pretty bug to have some first hand experience of essence - at least to an "x" degree which tends to be more easily seen in younger kids playing and singing without a care, which is why we can enjoy and appreciate them if our essence isn't totally calcified over or dominated by a hard-bitten, hard-ass ego .

I'm with you 3bob. It was just time for me to mess with you so I did.

 

In my signature block I have the words "peace and contentment". I have found mine. The words are meant as a wish to others.

 

I used to use happiness but that is a concept based too much from an individual perspective.

 

And yes, my child gets out to play often. Sometimes he has too much fun and I have to reigh him in.

 

What are we talking about? I've forgotten.

[Marblehead]

Also "Grandmasters" shouldn't need much in the way of testing

I'll bet Mrs. GMP tests GMP pretty regularly.

[GrandmasterP]

How do grandmasters of the soft styles do against hard styles , are they not cross purpose?

 

Half a brick in an old but sturdy sock usually wins most arguments in that respect.

[GrandmasterP]

I'll bet Mrs. GMP tests GMP pretty regularly.

 

Every day man.

Every single day.

 

[Stosh]

Half a brick in an old but sturdy sock usually wins most arguments in that respect.

You are indeed wise

[3bob]

do we have to turn in GMP for hitting his dear wife with a cheap brick shot?

[Stosh]

do we have to turn in GMP for hitting his dear wife with a cheap brick shot?

No proof , besides, we dont know if she does any hard style martial arts.

[3bob]

oh, well a "woman's scorn" has laid many a man low, thus and perhaps it's more effective than MMA.

 

(I could catch some hell for that foot in mouth)

[Stosh]

Well it has be sexistly said, that a man makes it so they can live , and his wife makes it so they can live well.

[ion]

When people are comfortable, and safe without oppression

They become less carnally minded, they become ,inspired, powerful and are capable of great things.

 

A good leader places no limits on what they are allowed to do,

And never places restrictions on their means of sustenance.

Because the leader shows this respect, the people will follow their leader.

 

Therefore those who know the way know the capabilities of living the way but never glorifies it unto themselves.

They have confidence in the way whom they embody and express but never take pride as though they themselves achieve.

So they do away with concerns of the ego and take the happiness of the people as their own.