What is Lao Tzu?

[Everything]

If Lao Tzu is a body, a person, matter. Then we cannot observe this. He is no longer around.

 

When people have observed Lao Tzu, they witnessed many forms. Some witnessed the form of Old man, other of Wise man. The only thing that is left, is his form. This form is abstracted from the matter that contained the form. It is abstracted from his body.

 

This concept of Lao Tzu is kinda useless. Don't you guys think? If you speak of Lao Tzu, you speak of the candle light that was observed within the sun.

[Marblehead]

Lao Tzu is the thought. He still exists as we are still talking about him. Doesn't matter that the body no longer exists. This is true long life!

[Taomeow]

Lao Tzu (Laozi) is an immortal taoist deity of the Celestial Realm. His visits to the terrestrial realm may or may not be in the past, depends on who you know. But his presence in the tianzun (the pantheon of taoist deities) is a constant.

[Informer]

Lao Tzu is the thought. He still exists as we are still talking about him. Doesn't matter that the body no longer exists. This is true long life!

 

He's like the buddhists Buddha or christians Jesus. An Ancient Prophet. (a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.)

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

He is as useful to the tribe as the firestarter, as useless to the herd as the bone-picked carcas.

 

Let there be an end to deity worship and a focus on the intent of the deities; Let us focus on the lessons and the learning, not the teachers and the courses.

[Everything]

Lao Tzu is the thought. He still exists as we are still talking about him. Doesn't matter that the body no longer exists. This is true long life!

Yeah, but we create this Lao Tzu by abstracting the form from his matter. I don't think its good to do such a thing :/

 

But then again, I abstracted this form of "good" from the matter of super hero's trying to save the world.

 

So basicly, you can't save the world by creating imaginary Lao Tzu's

Edited September 21, 2011 by Everything

[Everything]

He's like the buddhists Buddha or christians Jesus. An Ancient Prophet. (a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.)

Has it been said that Lao Tzu was initiated at some pyramidic structure?

[Everything]

He is as useful to the tribe as the firestarter, as useless to the herd as the bone-picked carcas.

 

Let there be an end to deity worship and a focus on the intent of the deities; Let us focus on the lessons and the learning, not the teachers and the courses.

That sounds like it could save the world from emotional unpleasant feelings that are said not to be desired by most.

[Marblehead]

Yeah, but we create this Lao Tzu by abstracting the form from his matter. I don't think its good to do such a thing :/

 

But then again, I abstracted this form of "good" from the matter of super hero's trying to save the world.

 

So basicly, you can't save the world by creating imaginary Lao Tzu's

 

Hehehe. I have no intention of trying to save the world. After I die it can go to hell in a hand-basket as far as I am concerned. But not until after I die, understand.

 

No, I don't think we are abstracting anything. No, we didn't create Lao Tzu. We created an image. Is it a true, unblemished image? I don't know.

 

I look to Lao Tzu as a personal guide for me while living my life. Lao Tzu can be of value to only those who recognize his value.

 

Not everyone believes in Superman.

[Informer]

Has it been said that Lao Tzu was initiated at some pyramidic structure?

 

Dunno. I don't worship any of the prophets, but hear them all speaking the same theme. That of unbound love for all.

[Everything]

After I die it can go to hell in a hand-basket as far as I am concerned. But not until after I die, understand..

Why after you die? Your very words seems to bind your soul to the space you live in and chackles it to time. You can't break free if you would have very little faith.

 

Unless you are already a free soul and don't expect to return here.

 

I think its dangerous to falsely believe that you are free, but that might not be the case here. I can only speak of my own enslavement.

 

I'm curious. If you're a free man, and wish to leave this place, why are you still here?

Don't take this the wrong way. I really wanna know. I don't ask it because I disagree with you being alive.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Everything

[Everything]

Dunno. I don't worship any of the prophets, but hear them all speaking the same theme. That of unbound love for all.

Indeed. Modern day science is slowly tuning into that. Eslecially neurologists are discovering some important things here with the help of physics/math.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I'm curious. If you're a free man, and wish to leave this place, why are you still here?

 

I seek to be a free man so i can come and go as i please.

 

 

I dont want to be here unles by consciously acknowlageable choice, not as some pseudo-spiritual contracted chopice i cant remember or acknowlege.

 

 

I dont know how to spell "acknowlege". Acknowledge? blah.

[XieJia]

Laozi is my grandpa, he smiles at me everyday.

Laozi is my teacher, he teaches me new things everyday.

Laozi is my friend, he is always with me in playful times and hardships.

He laughs with me and at me at unexpected times.

Laozi is my grandpa, he smiles with me everday.

[Marblehead]

How you have gotten very deep with me. With a little luck I might be able to respond intelligently to your questions. Let' see what happens.

 

Why after you die? Your very words seems to bind your soul to the space you live in and chackles it to time. You can't break free if you would have very little faith.

 

Let us remember that I believe that the Manifest (my physical life) is just as real as any other aspect of Tao. I also believe that we should try to live our life to the fullest and attain our full potential. I fell I have done this. I have retired. The remained of my life is designed to rest in the comfort of Yin. There is nothing left to break free of.

 

Unless you are already a free soul and don't expect to return here.

 

If you rearrange those words to make it a statement of fact you will have hit on a "truth".

 

I think its dangerous to falsely believe that you are free, but that might not be the case here. I can only speak of my own enslavement.

 

I agree. That would be dangerous. Do I still have attachments? Sure I do. I still have a life, afterall. But I know that these attachments will not last forever. Those 'other things' will not last forever; "I" will not last forever.

 

Therefore I am free to just walk away from all of it if I wish to do so. Or I could just die. But I'm not ready to die yet. So I willingly remain attached to the Manifest. Freedom is in having the choice; in the ability to choose.

 

I'm curious. If you're a free man, and wish to leave this place, why are you still here?

 

No, I don't think I ever said I wanted to leave this place; this manifested reality. I am still here because I am supposed to live my life to its full potential (I feel I have done this) then, when the work is done, retire (I have done this). Now it is the time to rest in my retirement (I am doing this).

 

I have looked into the face of death three times during my lifetime. Each time Death turned his back to me and said I wasn't ready yet. When I am ready I will go. But I promise there will be one hellofa' fight. And after the fight is lost, and it surely will be lost, nothing else will matter to "me" because "me" won't exist. What I was may be remembered; maybe not. But that doesn't really matter either.

 

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way. I really wanna know. I don't ask it because I disagree with you being alive.

[Marblehead]

Laozi is my grandpa, he smiles at me everyday.

Laozi is my teacher, he teaches me new things everyday.

Laozi is my friend, he is always with me in playful times and hardships.

He laughs with me and at me at unexpected times.

Laozi is my grandpa, he smiles with me everday.

 

That's nice!

[Everything]

How you have gotten very deep with me. With a little luck I might be able to respond intelligently to your questions. Let' see what happens.

 

 

 

Let us remember that I believe that the Manifest (my physical life) is just as real as any other aspect of Tao. I also believe that we should try to live our life to the fullest and attain our full potential. I fell I have done this. I have retired. The remained of my life is designed to rest in the comfort of Yin. There is nothing left to break free of.

 

 

 

If you rearrange those words to make it a statement of fact you will have hit on a "truth".

 

 

 

I agree. That would be dangerous. Do I still have attachments? Sure I do. I still have a life, afterall. But I know that these attachments will not last forever. Those 'other things' will not last forever; "I" will not last forever.

 

Therefore I am free to just walk away from all of it if I wish to do so. Or I could just die. But I'm not ready to die yet. So I willingly remain attached to the Manifest. Freedom is in having the choice; in the ability to choose.

 

 

 

No, I don't think I ever said I wanted to leave this place; this manifested reality. I am still here because I am supposed to live my life to its full potential (I feel I have done this) then, when the work is done, retire (I have done this). Now it is the time to rest in my retirement (I am doing this).

 

I have looked into the face of death three times during my lifetime. Each time Death turned his back to me and said I wasn't ready yet. When I am ready I will go. But I promise there will be one hellofa' fight. And after the fight is lost, and it surely will be lost, nothing else will matter to "me" because "me" won't exist. What I was may be remembered; maybe not. But that doesn't really matter either.

Thank you!

 

So, if you think "this planet can go to hell after I'm dead" do you think such a mindset will ever give you peaceful death? I don't think so. I think living a destructive life you will die a painful death, wether its physically or emotionally. When death arrives, there is no more thinking. You will automaticly see the lie you were living, and regret that you have done it and regret that you have forgotten about your purpose. Human nature is good of it self. You are made to contribute. This is a sceintific fact. You can't turn your back on civilization and live a peaceful life. Many people have chosen to walk away, to move back to nature and never return. Their last revelation has always been and shall always be regret. When they die, they see that humans are nature.

 

We all have a purpose, we choice to forget it and ignore it. When death arrives, you will beg to get another chance at this. Every single part of your being will fight to survive, to win time, to reach tomorrow. I can warn people of this all the time, no one really sees it.

 

Don't think of time, we can't do that. Think within it. You're part of time. You can't say that when we die, nothing matters anymore. Have you ever died, or been to this future? the only thing that matters is this moment. The things that are happening right now. The thoughts of people that are being manifested right now, the story of human civilization that we're part of. Sometimes the journey doesn't lead to your destination, but will give you the biggest treasure of all: a peace of mind. When you know you've done more then what you came here for.

 

I've never met a person who've wished the worst things for human civilization and died a peaceful death without regret. In the end, death is what we all live for. We live, because there is death. Without it we woulden't be alive.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Everything

[Everything]

If anyone wishes to hear my perspective on who or what Lao Tzu is:

 

Lao Tzu is for me a wise old male teacher.

 

He indeed puts a smile on my face, shows me the darkest of all darkness, yet illuminates this with his infinite light. The light with Lao Tzu cannot be blown out like on a candle. Not even when he is 97 years old.

 

Lao Tzu is many...

 

This is my current favorite form of Lao Tzu, because it is contained within matter:

Edited September 22, 2011 by Everything

[Marblehead]

Thank you!

 

So, if you think ...

 

You put a lot of assumptions on me. That was an error.

 

When I said when I die I wouldn't care. How could I care? I'm not here anymore after I die.

 

I do my part in giving my excess to those more needy than I.

 

Right now I care. When I die I won't care. That's a fact, in my opinion.

 

I am at peace with my Self. I could die today without regret.

 

I have no need to pretend that I am more than what I am. That is just an animal living on a planet that supports life. One day the Earth will no longer be able to support life. That day all things on Earth will die and Tao won't care. Why should I?

[Everything]

You put a lot of assumptions on me. That was an error.

 

When I said when I die I wouldn't care. How could I care? I'm not here anymore after I die.

 

I do my part in giving my excess to those more needy than I.

 

Right now I care. When I die I won't care. That's a fact, in my opinion.

 

I am at peace with my Self. I could die today without regret.

 

I have no need to pretend that I am more than what I am. That is just an animal living on a planet that supports life. One day the Earth will no longer be able to support life. That day all things on Earth will die and Tao won't care. Why should I?

First of all, how do you know what happens after you die? Do you have proof for it?

 

Secondly, do you think mankind and all of its common herritage is destined to stay upon this Earth?

Edited September 22, 2011 by Everything

[Marblehead]

First of all, how do you know what happens after you die? Do you have proof for it?

 

Secondly, do you think mankind and all of its common herritage is destined to stay upon this Earth?

 

First of all, I have no freakin' idea what happens when we die. But I can tell you this, the person how has died no longer exists on this plane. That is bottom line. So I am sure that whatever energy remains and returns to the Mystery will not have a human identy. When your brain dies you are dead. Period. Never has been a recorded event where this is not true. It culd be stated as a universal fact.

 

Now, surely, you are not going to here suggest that you know what happens after you die?

 

Secondly, man has already been to the moon so to state such a thing would be silly, wouldn't it. I stated that the Earth will one day die and therefore all things on Earth will die.

 

Perhaps prior to that event man will have populated other solar systems. But that won't change anything for everyone who is still living on Earth.

 

So where are you going with this? Weren't we talking about Lao Tzu? Seems that you just elected to challenge me because I think differently than you do but you have never stated why you are questioning me or even what you position is.

 

What do you know?

[Everything]

First of all, I have no freakin' idea what happens when we die. But I can tell you this, the person how has died no longer exists on this plane. That is bottom line. So I am sure that whatever energy remains and returns to the Mystery will not have a human identy. When your brain dies you are dead. Period. Never has been a recorded event where this is not true. It culd be stated as a universal fact.

 

Now, surely, you are not going to here suggest that you know what happens after you die?

 

Secondly, man has already been to the moon so to state such a thing would be silly, wouldn't it. I stated that the Earth will one day die and therefore all things on Earth will die.

 

Perhaps prior to that event man will have populated other solar systems. But that won't change anything for everyone who is still living on Earth.

 

So where are you going with this? Weren't we talking about Lao Tzu? Seems that you just elected to challenge me because I think differently than you do but you have never stated why you are questioning me or even what you position is.

 

What do you know?

My position is of ignorance towards your position. I ask because I wanted to know. I can never know what someone else experience, I can only try and relate and empasize. Also, do consider that this is not personal. I am fighting against the words, fighting to create more better words to explain our lifes better in words. These words shoulden't have feelings involved. Its more like improving on our expression, just like creating music. You discuss between diffrent notes untill you find harmony.

 

I thought that when we die we still are us. Its like this nothing you speak cannot be spoken of. When you speak of yourself when you're dead, you speak of this individual consciousness that was able to sustain itself prior to death. So after death, I still am. The me, that is not, cannot be me. I strongly believe that we should believe we will still be here after death. Because the concept of death and our values around it affect our lifes very much.

 

Anyways, sometimes a connection to the Tao does seem to give me a cool attitude, very aware and observing, in awe, at peace. It never gave me carelessness though.

 

I've actually addopted this carelessness approach in my life as some kind of experiment. It was very destructive. In the end, it didn't even matter if I would die. I would constantly put more and more things in the "it doesn't matter" category. It becomes addicting to see someone else suffer, because to your astonishment even that will not even matter anymore. Then I made a huge jump back towards the other side of over-care. Knowing the two extremes I find that we can tune into them both to diffrent degrees, depending on what the environment requires of us.

 

So for example, I might might be 70% care and 30% careless. This may seem imbalanced, but when the environment is very careless it is only natural to be more caring to compensate. However, sometimes people cannot change and remain in the same position because they've never been on the other side. So when the environment requires more carelessness, you still have this over-care. Or the other way around.

 

Like yin yang. Experiencing the opposite of your life, it will always cause balance. In the end, the frequency that this "opposite" is flipped over become very rapid. You can switch realities very quickly and addopt to reality much more rapidly.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Everything

[Informer]

Laozi is my grandpa, he smiles at me everyday.

Laozi is my teacher, he teaches me new things everyday.

Laozi is my friend, he is always with me in playful times and hardships.

He laughs with me and at me at unexpected times.

Laozi is my grandpa, he smiles with me everday.

 

Good one +1

[Marblehead]

Thank you for the very nice post. This is the Everything I know and respect.

 

My position is of ignorance towards your position. I ask because I wanted to know. I can never know what someone else experience, I can only try and relate and empasize. Also, do consider that this is not personal. I am fighting against the words, fighting to create more better words to explain our lifes better in words. These words shoulden't have feelings involved. Its more like improving on our expression, just like creating music. You discuss between diffrent notes untill you find harmony.

 

Yes, words sometimes makes it more difficult for us to express ourself properly. Let me say something here not only for you but for anyone who reads what I write.

 

Unless I am quoting someone I speak only for myself. I don't claim any following not do I claim that there is one single person who agrees with me. My understandings are based on what I have seen during my lifetime. I try hard to express these experiences and observations with the best words I can muster.

 

I thought that when we die we still are us. Its like this nothing you speak cannot be spoken of. When you speak of yourself when you're dead, you speak of this individual consciousness that was able to sustain itself prior to death. So after death, I still am. The me, that is not, cannot be me. I strongly believe that we should believe we will still be here after death. Because the concept of death and our values around it affect our lifes very much.

 

I understand. And there are a lot of people who believe as you do. I do not believe this way. My experiences suggest that when we die we are dead, never to be heard from again. I know that this doesn't sound very pretty. I apologize for that.

 

And biologically, when our brain stops to function we are dead. A death certificate will be written. Sure, we see a lot of pretty words on tombstones, we hear a lot of pretty words for all the religions. I suppose whatever allows one to face death bravely is a valid belief.

 

Anyways, sometimes a connection to the Tao does seem to give me a cool attitude, very aware and observing, in awe, at peace. It never gave me carelessness though.

 

No, the TTC does not teach nihilism. It speaks to living one's life to the fullest.

 

I've actually addopted this carelessness approach in my life as some kind of experiment. It was very destructive. In the end, it didn't even matter if I would die. I would constantly put more and more things in the "it doesn't matter" category. It becomes addicting to see someone else suffer, because to your astonishment even that will not even matter anymore. Then I made a huge jump back towards the other side of over-care. Knowing the two extremes I find that we can tune into them both to diffrent degrees, depending on what the environment requires of us.

 

I have this saying I like to offer: Everything matters but nothing matters. This is suggesting that everything during this manifest life matters in one way or another. We may not be able to do anything about many of them but they still matter.

 

On the other hand, everything is a result of cause and effect. Most of the causes in our life we are totally unaware of. So we might as well just flow with the flow, do the best we can in the situation we have found ourself in and not worry about what is going to happen next.

 

So for example, I might might be 70% care and 30% careless. This may seem imbalanced, but when the environment is very careless it is only natural to be more caring to compensate. However, sometimes people cannot change and remain in the same position because they've never been on the other side. So when the environment requires more carelessness, you still have this over-care. Or the other way around.

 

Ah! I hear you speaking of harmony - a balancing of Yin and Yang. Yes, we sometime need be more caring and other time we need be less caring. Less caring if we can do nothing about the situation. Why worry ourself if we can do nothing to change anything?

 

Like yin yang. Experiencing the opposite of your life, it will always cause balance. In the end, the frequency that this "opposite" is flipped over become very rapid. You can switch realities very quickly and addopt to reality much more rapidly.

 

Very good! And that is exactly how life should be. When there is too much Yang we balance with Yin. As long as we can remain flexible and change with the changes of life we will do pretty well. Not saying we won't have problems or bad experiences but we can solve the problems and learn from the experiences.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Marblehead

[zanshin]

 

Don't think of time, we can't do that. Think within it. You're part of time. You can't say that when we die, nothing matters anymore. Have you ever died, or been to this future? the only thing that matters is this moment. The things that are happening right now. The thoughts of people that are being manifested right now, the story of human civilization that we're part of. Sometimes the journey doesn't lead to your destination, but will give you the biggest treasure of all: a peace of mind. When you know you've done more then what you came here for.

 

I've never met a person who've wished the worst things for human civilization and died a peaceful death without regret. In the end, death is what we all live for. We live, because there is death. Without it we woulden't be alive.

 

I live because of life and someday will die because of death. I live in a positive and caring way to the best of my ability because I see it as the right way to live. In death I do not expect to see some eternal truth. Atheism does not = nihilism, perhaps it could, but I think we should be better than that. You think caring about the environment or peace for civilization should be contingent on some sort of reward or punishment for doing so?