Bone Marrow

[konchog uma]

In Traditional Chinese Medicine, the

Marrow is not the same thing as bone marrow,

but the stage prior to becoming bone marrow.

Marrow is the pre-substantial Jing that forms the

matrix for bone marrow, the spinal cord, and thebrain

 

ok so thats a quote of jerry alan johnson from "chinese medical qigong therapy" p. 288

 

i was looking for a map of the bones because i just sat down for cuppa tea with my meditation (kuji-in) teacher and he said "oh youre building lots of radiant energy now, don't let that dissipate. When youre done, put it in your marrow." So he advised me to look up bones and marrow, and get a good map of it in my head, since that will help the technique he showed me to send the excess.

 

so now i have questions for all you bums, since i am not really in the know. especially TCM-knowledgable ppl please chime in

 

1. is marrow similar in composition to semen/cerebro-spinal fluid/grey matter? Is there anything i need to know about it in relation to that? I have never heard the correlation drawn before.

 

2. now i am sure he was talking just about bone marrow. He isnt tcm. Should i bother with this expanded idea of marrow or just stick to the bone marrow? What would be the advice, as far as sending the excess radiant energy to the brain or spinal column or testes, as well as the bone marrow?

 

3. does this close the circle of jing-qi-shen "refinement", since i am taking spirit energy in the form of light and charging my jing with it? Am i understanding that right?

 

4. if this does close the circle of jing-qi-shen and that is now a closed circuit, does that mean i can stop intending anything and just let my body do what it does naturally (once my excess energy starts going to the marrow naturally i mean)

 

thank the mess out of whoever responds, i really appreciate it!

[Protector]

My limited knowledge on the subject dictates that bones have a number of stem cells inside that are used to fix fractures and create additional blood when under pressure

 

HORSE STANCE GO!

[taooneusa]

In Traditional Chinese Medicine, the

Marrow is not the same thing as bone marrow,

but the stage prior to becoming bone marrow.

Marrow is the pre-substantial Jing that forms the

matrix for bone marrow, the spinal cord, and thebrain

 

ok so thats a quote of jerry alan johnson from "chinese medical qigong therapy" p. 288

 

i was looking for a map of the bones because i just sat down for cuppa tea with my meditation (kuji-in) teacher and he said "oh youre building lots of radiant energy now, don't let that dissipate. When youre done, put it in your marrow." So he advised me to look up bones and marrow, and get a good map of it in my head, since that will help the technique he showed me to send the excess.

 

so now i have questions for all you bums, since i am not really in the know. especially TCM-knowledgable ppl please chime in

 

1. is marrow similar in composition to semen/cerebro-spinal fluid/grey matter? Is there anything i need to know about it in relation to that? I have never heard the correlation drawn before.

 

2. now i am sure he was talking just about bone marrow. He isnt tcm. Should i bother with this expanded idea of marrow or just stick to the bone marrow? What would be the advice, as far as sending the excess radiant energy to the brain or spinal column or testes, as well as the bone marrow?

 

3. does this close the circle of jing-qi-shen "refinement", since i am taking spirit energy in the form of light and charging my jing with it? Am i understanding that right?

 

4. if this does close the circle of jing-qi-shen and that is now a closed circuit, does that mean i can stop intending anything and just let my body do what it does naturally (once my excess energy starts going to the marrow naturally i mean)

 

thank the mess out of whoever responds, i really appreciate it!

..looking for the main stem cells, then the black stone

How is RNA formed? What forces crystallization?

[konchog uma]

..looking for the main stem cells, then the black stone

How is RNA formed? What forces crystallization?

 

what is the black stone?

 

i don't really know how rna is formed. i don't know what kind of crystallization you are talking about either.

[dwai]

In Traditional Chinese Medicine, the

Marrow is not the same thing as bone marrow,

but the stage prior to becoming bone marrow.

Marrow is the pre-substantial Jing that forms the

matrix for bone marrow, the spinal cord, and thebrain

 

ok so thats a quote of jerry alan johnson from "chinese medical qigong therapy" p. 288

 

i was looking for a map of the bones because i just sat down for cuppa tea with my meditation (kuji-in) teacher and he said "oh youre building lots of radiant energy now, don't let that dissipate. When youre done, put it in your marrow." So he advised me to look up bones and marrow, and get a good map of it in my head, since that will help the technique he showed me to send the excess.

 

so now i have questions for all you bums, since i am not really in the know. especially TCM-knowledgable ppl please chime in

 

1. is marrow similar in composition to semen/cerebro-spinal fluid/grey matter? Is there anything i need to know about it in relation to that? I have never heard the correlation drawn before.

 

2. now i am sure he was talking just about bone marrow. He isnt tcm. Should i bother with this expanded idea of marrow or just stick to the bone marrow? What would be the advice, as far as sending the excess radiant energy to the brain or spinal column or testes, as well as the bone marrow?

 

3. does this close the circle of jing-qi-shen "refinement", since i am taking spirit energy in the form of light and charging my jing with it? Am i understanding that right?

 

4. if this does close the circle of jing-qi-shen and that is now a closed circuit, does that mean i can stop intending anything and just let my body do what it does naturally (once my excess energy starts going to the marrow naturally i mean)

 

thank the mess out of whoever responds, i really appreciate it!

 

The importance of the marrow is as a "battery" for jing. Master waysun liao teaches condensing breathing as compressing chi into the bone marrow, which in turn willbe converted into jing. And yes, you should feel a natiral condensing happen with time...it feels like a inward pressure to me, like a bp pad feels when being inflated...but much more lighter and ubtle and non localized. Afaik, the marrow is bone marrow.

[Green Tiger]

My impression is that the TCM 'Marrow' is basically like jing . . . only different. Not to add further confusion, but the energy is created in the kidneys (as is jing, right?) and it nourishes the spine and brain through the jing (whatever that means). I'm not an expert, by any means, but the concept is confusing beyond merely the usage confusion. My current image of the human body as described by TCM is sort of a plumber's nightmare. Jing and Qi and Marrow all being routed here and then re-routed there and doing this and that and the other thing. I am very jealous that you have Jerry's book. From what I've seen, they look like they'd be THE reference material to have. I would love to buy the whole set but . . . no.

 

At any rate, I think you should ask for clarification from your teacher about storing energy in the marrow. There is a description of the practice in Tai Chi Classics by Waysun Liao also, but hopefully your instructor can clarify.

 

Do let us know what he says.

[dawei]

The importance of the marrow is as a "battery" for jing. Master waysun liao teaches condensing breathing as compressing chi into the bone marrow, which in turn willbe converted into jing. And yes, you should feel a natiral condensing happen with time...it feels like a inward pressure to me, like a bp pad feels when being inflated...but much more lighter and ubtle and non localized. Afaik, the marrow is bone marrow.

I think when 'bone marrow' is mentioned, it is practices like Liao's condensing breathing, iron shirt, pack Qi, etc. I think this is what was meant by the teacher's comment; to pack Qi into the bones (marrow). This is a part of Iron Shirt and one can pack it in the ribs for that. But consult a good teacher and use a book to help visualize some of it.

 

When TCM uses "Marrow" (and some texts will capitalize), it means as the OP has stated; it includes body fluids including the synovial fluid.

[konchog uma]

At any rate, I think you should ask for clarification from your teacher about storing energy in the marrow. There is a description of the practice in Tai Chi Classics by Waysun Liao also, but hopefully your instructor can clarify.

 

Do let us know what he says.

 

i talked to him on the phone this morning to ask him some questions.. hahaha "this isn't f*ing philosophy.. don't think about it logically, just do the excercize" but then he explained nicely that the practice of storing energy in the marrow both closed a circuit (jing-qi-shen) and did not close the Whole circuit, cause it continues into wuji and onward to the source, which can be called dao.

 

i only kind of understand, and i have no experience with this, but i will share what he said.

 

to paraphrase, returning radiant energy to the marrow is like returning chi to the marrow, it should be done with *abundant or *excess energy so that it doesnt dissipate but goes back to nourish the body. When a person refines chi to shen with the dantiens and chakras, that is only, in a way, building the foundation for the next step, shen to wuji, which he says is done in the beginning by using clear white light visualizations after the colors of the spectrum are invoked and the chakras are utilized. Then when the taiji pole (and the whole body) is radiant white light and the chakras colors have been sublimated into the pure white light, then visualize that light sublimating into "clear light" that is not a color or white but is radiant in an invisible way. he said this subtlety is the gate to wuji. that is only the beginning steps to open the gates he said like everything else after a while you just know the feel of it and don't need visualizations although they help. Then once emptiness of clear light has been attained, one can be filled with the source, or dao, which is not substance or no substance, color or no color, but ultimately subtle, beyond even being able to visualize, there is no mental trick to open the gate, one only knows that merging and being filled with dao is next and it happens. So THAT is a closed circuit, but one should also have open circuits which automatically refine chi to marrow, shen to marrow, and all the stages of the process should be internalized etc.

 

so there. thats more than i can chew right now but thats the basic conversation. hahaha i have known that for 2 hours now so... i don't claim to be an authority or tell anyone what is right in those matters, but i hope it helps, or at least sparks conversation. :D

Edited October 1, 2011 by anamatva

[Birch]

Nice!

 

Loved the part about 'Philosophy...'

[konchog uma]

Nice!

 

Loved the part about 'Philosophy...'

 

yeah he understands that its good to understand what one is doing

 

but boy do i tend to overthink things.

 

its good to get a nice reminder hes funny

[gendao]

someone on soulseek (p2p network) was sharing the pdf file... i have never seen it anywhere else, although i theorize that there is a torrent for everything if you just dig deep enough. at the risk of bringing daoist curses down on my head, i will create a torrent and send you the hash file if you want! so you can download it if you use a torrent client. PM me, i do not mind doing this at all. some people can not afford that book but i don't think learning about health and wellness should be based on financial merit (especially not in this economy)

 

 

 

i talked to him on the phone this morning to ask him some questions.. hahaha "this isn't f*ing philosophy.. don't think about it logically, just do the excercize" but then he explained nicely that the practice of storing energy in the marrow both closed a circuit (jing-qi-shen) and did not close the Whole circuit, cause it continues into wuji and onward to the source, which can be called dao.

 

i only kind of understand, and i have no experience with this, but i will share what he said.

 

to paraphrase, returning radiant energy to the marrow is like returning chi to the marrow, it should be done with *abundant or *excess energy so that it doesnt dissipate but goes back to nourish the body. When a person refines chi to shen with the dantiens and chakras, that is only, in a way, building the foundation for the next step, shen to wuji, which he says is done in the beginning by using clear white light visualizations after the colors of the spectrum are invoked and the chakras are utilized. Then when the taiji pole (and the whole body) is radiant white light and the chakras colors have been sublimated into the pure white light, then visualize that light sublimating into "clear light" that is not a color or white but is radiant in an invisible way. he said this subtlety is the gate to wuji. that is only the beginning steps to open the gates he said like everything else after a while you just know the feel of it and don't need visualizations although they help. Then once emptiness of clear light has been attained, one can be filled with the source, or dao, which is not substance or no substance, color or no color, but ultimately subtle, beyond even being able to visualize, there is no mental trick to open the gate, one only knows that merging and being filled with dao is next and it happens. So THAT is a closed circuit, but one should also have open circuits which automatically refine chi to marrow, shen to marrow, and all the stages of the process should be internalized etc.

 

so there. thats more than i can chew right now but thats the basic conversation. hahaha i have known that for 2 hours now so... i don't claim to be an authority or tell anyone what is right in those matters, but i hope it helps, or at least sparks conversation. :D

Very interesting explanation, thanks!

 

What is your teacher's system and what are his own qualifications (like, how much of this has he achieved himself and what positive results implying so do you notice in him)? IOW, how much street cred does he have to support his understanding?

Edited September 23, 2011 by vortex

[konchog uma]

Very interesting explanation, thanks!

 

What is your teacher's system and what are his own qualifications (like, how much of this has he achieved himself and what positive results implying so do you notice in him)? IOW, how much street cred does he have to support his understanding?

 

hahaha street cred galore. Im Actually laughing out loud. His exploits and accomplishments border on legendary. He is an amazing human being.

 

I could tell you stories about him but I won't. Lets just say he has proven himself to me five times over as being legit. He received training in secret buddhism (mikkyo) and ninjutsu internalism (they incorporated anything they could get their hands on, so some of it is yogic, some himalayan, some daoist, some buddhist, some ainu, etc. ninja incorporate everything they come in contact with and thats a long list). His master just talks psychically, and everyone in the dojo hears him in their heads and agrees on what he said to them.

 

i have said he is akijutsu but thats just the martial aspect he specializes in.

 

I will say though that he is not officially daoist, so he was talking not about wuji but about emptiness, and he didn't say dao he said source and oneness. He left ninpo (active in the field) when the spirit guides told him to, and now he walks in the light. But he achieved 10 dan in ninjutsu. He has travelled and lived all over and studied with people, and especially likes aboriginal and native people so he knows a lot of that too. His energies are so nutty he just disappears from peoples view without realizing it all the time. 2 nights ago he scared the hell out of someone who he thought was looking right at him 2 feet away when he said hi. hahaha then they noticed him

 

I will tell you one story. I saw him change his appearance into another persons to mess with me and my girlfriend one time. We were 4 feet away from him saying to each other "who is that guy? is he a friend of mike's? i dunno i've never seen him before." and we looked back and he winked at us and grinned. He told me how he did it later but thats all ninjutsu stuff and i know some of it, like how not to be noticed and how to fade and blend but i never studied the really weird stuff like shapeshifting.

 

So all that he said and i paraphrased comes from a familiarity with daoism but that all comes from mikkyo which is part of shingon which is japanese vajrayana.

Edited September 23, 2011 by anamatva

[konchog uma]

but thats all ninjutsu stuff and i know some of it, like how not to be noticed and how to fade and blend but i never studied the really weird stuff like shapeshifting.

 

since i mentioned it, i can explain a fairly simple technique which is really helpful, and i started a new thread to do that

 

How to go unnoticed by negative people (just about everyone these days)

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/20692-how-to-go-unnoticed-by-negative-people/

[Anton Chigur]

This is just a side topic, but the concept for keeping bone marrow healthy is peace. Resentment causes bone cancer...

 

I have this brilliant chinese book of ailments and how to keep the body healthy by changing your thoughts.

 

Just ask if you have any questions

[konchog uma]

This is just a side topic, but the concept for keeping bone marrow healthy is peace. Resentment causes bone cancer...

 

I have this brilliant chinese book of ailments and how to keep the body healthy by changing your thoughts.

 

Just ask if you have any questions

 

thanks, that is cool info.

 

questions...

 

who wrote it? and whats it called?

 

[joeblast]

when considering marrow and the JQS paradigm, dont forget that when discussing the kidneys, kidney-yang and the adrenals are a big component - the adrenals are a catalyst storage unit and can basically only produce so much catalyst at any given time. enhancing oneself enhances the production, and if you harm them you limit their production ability and that's the jist behind "a limited amount of jing" - jing is partly "the production, or the ability to produce, these catalysts."

 

 

red marrow is mainly composed of hematopoetic tissue and the yellow marrow is mainly lipid. when the marrow stem cells replicate they leave behind some daughter stem cells - IMHO this process is enhanced by radiant energy, the radiant energy is partly manifested by this process being efficient, amongst many others - all in that odd JQS paradigm.

 

ever tried the white skeleton meditation?

 

when you "store to the marrow" you're storing all the way to the depths of your endocrine system, that's where it gets conceptually tricky

[joeblast]

..looking for the main stem cells, then the black stone

How is RNA formed? What forces crystallization?

piezoelectric effect

[konchog uma]

 

ever tried the white skeleton meditation?

 

when you "store to the marrow" you're storing all the way to the depths of your endocrine system, that's where it gets conceptually tricky

 

thanks joeblast!

 

i don't know "white skeleton meditation" or maybe i do but not by that name. Can you tell me about it?

 

when i am done exercising the chakras, i get to the top chakra (white light) and let it infuse with divine light and come down into my body and turn all the colors of light into white light. Then i breathe this light into my bone marrow. I like what you said about radiant energy enhancing the function of marrow, because when i invoke divine light it is like 1000 lightning bolts blinding me and i get an awesome feeling from packing my marrow with it. Since i started doing that meditation i have been sleeping less and feeling more rested! I also wake up without grogginess, and some mornings i can feel my bones release a shot of energy that vitalizes me! Pretty great

 

{edit} what is conceptually tricky about charging the endocrine system? The complexity of the endocrine system? Can you clarify?

Edited September 30, 2011 by anamatva

[joeblast]

google it, you wont have any trouble finding some

 

conceptually tricky as in there are many components to jing - its not a 'thing' you can point to, but you can picky out many things that have very intimate jing-component. each bit of the endocrine system performs a catalyzing function...

[konchog uma]

google it, you wont have any trouble finding some

 

conceptually tricky as in there are many components to jing - its not a 'thing' you can point to, but you can picky out many things that have very intimate jing-component. each bit of the endocrine system performs a catalyzing function...

 

thanks!

 

{edit} i could have guessed that the most helpful infos were going to be links back here

 

i will look into that bodri information, although what i am doing is most like bone breathing, taking all the luminous energy in and telling it to seal and merge with the marrow.

 

also, do you mean that the endocrine system catalyzes the jing? I will read more about it from a medical standpoint. I don't have a firm foundation in medical qigong and that sort of thing but i am *trying* (holy shit) to understand jerry johnsons book. I'm sure he covers the endocrine system thoroughly.

 

thanks again!

Edited October 1, 2011 by anamatva

[konchog uma]

wow because of the radiant energy i have been packing my marrow with, my left big toe bone lit up like a neon bulb! i haven't gotten to the one pointed concentration of my whole skeleton yet but i have the anatomy books i need.

 

i had been using a technique to absorb the brilliant luminosity into the marrow and then when it was gone from my minds eye, use "clear light" to stimulate realization of emptiness, then after sitting in the clear light for a while (which is great cause it makes sure you got all that ambient luminosity into your marrow ) i would empty myself of everything even clear light and try to realize that the dao was both radiant light and clear light, darkness and emptiness (i sit with my eyes closed) and every other radiation and frequency of energy, but is not those energies but the mystery which gives rise to all. so i would let that awareness fill the empty space where "i" used to be. when i do this i feel touched by something really awesome. then i smile and get up.

 

buuuuut... i really like the idea of bright white skeleton samadhi, then the dusty bones blowing away

 

i am going to incorporate that into my sittings, since i do chakra workout every day. the wind that blows the bones away can be made of clear light, but i am getting a good feel for emptiness now so i don't think i need that trigger as much.

 

thanks for the tip joeblast, i wonder if i will see into other people's bodies as bodri claims, that would be wierd.

Edited October 1, 2011 by anamatva

[joeblast]

endocrine is catalyst. jing is catalyst. "cultivating jing" is cultivating the body's ability to produce catalyst. the catalysts repair, heal, many functions.

 

dont overdo it

[konchog uma]

had an issue, solved it, nevermind.

Edited October 1, 2011 by anamatva

[konchog uma]

dont overdo it

 

thanks. if you're saying that, i probably need to tone it down a little, and be careful to channel it appropriately. i appreciate the warning.

[joeblast]

not necessarily, its just that some things are stronger than others, it is wise to be careful and proceed expeditiously