Breathing & Head-Rush

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

So i have been trying to breathe deeper and longer, i've begun holding my breath and trying to breathe from the lower abdomen.

In many cases, if i am holding my breath and pushing it down to my lower abdominal area, i get light headed and enter a sort of out-of-body feel, as though i have vacated my body and "see-feel" undefined.... "isness" in my vision and perhiphery.

 

As i hit this "high", i almost always feel like i am about to fall over or lose control of my body and collapse, and it has happened before too.

 

 

My question is weather or not this is a good or bad thing, or if it should just be moderated heavily.

 

 

 

All things are good in moderation and harmful in excess, but what of this in particular?

 

 

 

Thank you in advance.

[ChiDragon]

1. So i have been trying to breathe deeper and longer, i've begun holding my breath and trying to breathe from the lower abdomen.

 

2. In many cases, if i am holding my breath and pushing it down to my lower abdominal area, i get light headed and enter a sort of out-of-body feel, as though i have vacated my body and "see-feel" undefined.... "isness" in my vision and perhiphery.

 

As i hit this "high", i almost always feel like i am about to fall over or lose control of my body and collapse, and it has happened before too.

 

My question is weather or not this is a good or bad thing, or if it should just be moderated heavily.

 

All things are good in moderation and harmful in excess, but what of this in particular?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

1. I don't think that you are doing it correctly to start off with. As beginner, you do not hold your breath nor breathe from the lower abdomen.

 

2. Also, you should not hold your breath and force it down to the lower abdominal.

 

I had post the breathing procedure many times. I will say it again just to remind myself also.

1. First, you will have to determine how deep can you go with your breath by taken a normal breath. Don't force the breath down but stop at where you feel it is comfortable. Then establish this as your breathing reference point.

 

2. Now breathe slowly down to the reference point each time. Until you feel more comfortable to go down a little bit deeper for a new reference point, then send your breath to the new reference point.

 

3. Repeat step two until your breath can go all the way down to the abdomen.

 

Please remember, at the beginning, you shall never hold your breath nor force it to go down to a point more than you can. Just breathe slowly with your nose only. As long you don't hold the breath at this stage, you should not be feeling light headed.

Edited September 22, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Great post, thank you. I can breathe from very deep in the abdomin, and have been practicing inconsistently for quite some time. I think i started practicing in about 2004 or 2005.

 

I was practicing with holding the breath as per something i had read about breath retention; maybe over-did it a little?

 

Now for a little clarity, i am not really uncomfortable with this experience of light-headedness, just concerned as to what the reprecautions might be.

[ChiDragon]

OK. Thank you...!!!

The problem is in holding the breath. When you are holding your breath, do not try to breathe in unless you do exhale slowly. Anyway, while holding your breath, try to have to air to circulate in your trachea. You should feel that your trachea has a little tighten sensation in the chest area. You should have the feeling that the air is circulating in between the chest and the abdomen, up and down, but not passing up to the throat unless you exhale slowly.

 

 

PS...

I am holding my breath, now, so I can describe it to you.

 

The way to hold the breath is, at first, to take a deep breath down to the abdomen and let it come up to the chest then hold and circulate. Indeed, I feel very comfortable this way.

 

I'm holding my breath and compress it so it won't come up to my throat. If I let it pass my throat, then I felt like my breath was rushed to my head to plug up my ears and get lightheaded. If I hold it too long like so, my face turns red and felt a little dizziness.

Edited September 22, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

OK. Thank you...!!!

The problem is in holding the breath. When you are holding your breath, do not try to breathe in unless you do exhale slowly. Anyway, while holding your breath, try to have to air to circulate in your trachea. You should feel that your trachea has a little tighten sensation in the chest area. You should have the feeling that the air is circulating in between the chest and the abdomen, up and down, but not passing up to the throat unless you exhale slowly.

 

PERFECT. Thank you, this is a perfect explination which helps a lot. It is something i have already noticed but wasnt sure how to go about it, and have a hard time keeping it from reaching/passing the throat unless i try to keep it in my abdominal area. the up and down thing is perfect and i should focus more on that, thanks.

 

PS...

I am holding my breath, now, so I can describe it to you.

 

The way to hold the breath is, at first, to take a deep breath down to the abdomen and let it come up to the chest then hold and circulate. Indeed, I feel very comfortable this way.

 

Aye, it is actually quite uplifting.

 

I'm holding my breath and compress it so it won't come up to my throat. If I let it pass my throat, then I felt like my breath was rushed to my head to plug up my ears and get lightheaded. If I hold it too long like so, my face turns red and felt a little dizziness.

 

Although this is wonderful, i am still more concerned as to the nature of the head rush; good/bad?

I want to say moderation, because it seems like i am as though ascending beyond my body, but i want to say keep away, as i have no understanding of the possible reprecautions.

 

If you're brave, try it sitting down:

Bend over and relax, exhale completely. Inhale deeply as you rise and bend backwards, compressing the air in your lower abdomen.

maybe 'sip' a bit of air in to further compact, and hold it, pushing it down. Feel in the lightheadedness, observe it, and then exhale.

 

 

I've done this and felt so completely detatched from this world that i had no idea what i was doing or where i was going for about 15 seconds, yet i was still completely aware of it all.

 

Scary; this is why i started a thread.

 

I must know of the possible dangers of this, aside from the obvious accidentally walking into traffic.

[ChiDragon]

Although this is wonderful, i am still more concerned as to the nature of the head rush; good/bad?

I want to say moderation, because it seems like i am as though ascending beyond my body, but i want to say keep away, as i have no understanding of the possible reprecautions.

 

If you're brave, try it sitting down:

Bend over and relax, exhale completely. Inhale deeply as you rise and bend backwards, compressing the air in your lower abdomen.

maybe 'sip' a bit of air in to further compact, and hold it, pushing it down. Feel in the lightheadedness, observe it, and then exhale.

 

 

I've done this and felt so completely detatched from this world that i had no idea what i was doing or where i was going for about 15 seconds, yet i was still completely aware of it all.

 

Scary; this is why i started a thread.

 

I must know of the possible dangers of this, aside from the obvious accidentally walking into traffic.

 

NHJT...

I see where and why your problem occurs. The instruction I gave you was for static Chi Kung while in a still position. However, the way you are describing was that you were doing something like sit ups. It doesn't matter how you breathe when you change the position of the head with a big difference in height; it will cause a big change in pressure. As a result, the blood tried to rush to your head but not quick enough. During the transient, your head was trying to stabilize the pressure which will cause lightheadedness at the time.

 

Edited to add:

The only precaution that can be made is do not change the position of your head in height so drastically to avoid lightheadedness.

Edited September 24, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Ohm-Nei]

When I focus on the pure wonder of atoms> forming DNA> forming cells> forming tissues> forming organs> forming organ systems> forming human beings... I get a rush / sensation in the back of my neck/hindbrain area. Very real - completely physical. Feels like inertia or intensity - i suppose it feels like an abrupt gust of energy/air.

 

I like to think that it is the very "life" within me becoming AWARE of itself via thought. Very fun - but I don't know if it's safe so I do not attempt to continue it. Sometimes in biology classes / bio-psychology classes it happens by itself due to the content of the lecture. - Makes me feel grand every time.

[Mal]

Although this is wonderful, i am still more concerned as to the nature of the head rush; good/bad?

 

I do 2 types (sort of) of breath holding Chi Gung

 

1st one is gTumo and usually a head "rush" is from compressing the breath too hard or not being able to circulate the energy down out of the head. Breath holding can really raise your blood pressure and that can be dangerous. Check it out on a machine (or do some while waiting at the doctors and see how the nursing staff react when its really high, but then it's normal 5 min later when the doctor sees you (lucky I know my doctor, and I went a bit hard as I was also wondering just what the blood pressure might look like )

 

2nd type chi gungs for kung fu. With them the head rush is usually from not putting the energy into the fingers. i.e we gather, compress, release. If your concentration is scattered and you don't intend the energy to your fingers/point of contact usually it's a head rush, can also look red in the face.

 

The breath holding I do is supervised, in person for kung fu and I only do "60% effort" for Kap.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Well... I've done a lot of walking in the last 2-3 months, and only in the last 2 weeks have i tried compressing air while walking. it's a very scary head rush and i dont do it much/at all anymore. I DO, occasionally, while im away from the streets and preferably over grass, in case i fall over invoulentarily, but overall, i am only observing this experience out of curiousity to the effects/affects.

 

I still havent learned anything pertaining to the danger or ill effects of this, but so far have not encountered any seriously ill effects other than fear and loss of conscious bodily control in areas such as balance and perception.

 

 

On one hand, it seems good, very good, and bringing me closer to letting go of all unnecessary ties and bounds.

 

On the other hand it's terrifying and inspires thoughts or worries of abruptly, spontaniously, dying.

 

 

Maybe im jsut crazy

 

 

But im trying to stick to simple deep-breath meditation while standing and/or walking. No pressure, no pushing, no forcing the breath, jsut letting it be.

 

 

Other times i get this type of head rush are after 4 or more pull/chin-ups.

When i dismount, i get strong head rush for about 5-10 seconds.

 

I am in the belief that it is a poor circulation between my muscles and lungs which i am trying to find a solution for.

 

 

Thanks all!

[ChiDragon]

Hot Nirvana Judo Trend...

 

It seems to me you need to do more practice on compressive breathing in sitting. You aren't need ready for that while in motion. If you can do compression breathing in motion, then you can go a long way without running out of breath or getting fatigue.

Edited September 29, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dwai]

So i have been trying to breathe deeper and longer, i've begun holding my breath and trying to breathe from the lower abdomen.

In many cases, if i am holding my breath and pushing it down to my lower abdominal area, i get light headed and enter a sort of out-of-body feel, as though i have vacated my body and "see-feel" undefined.... "isness" in my vision and perhiphery.

 

As i hit this "high", i almost always feel like i am about to fall over or lose control of my body and collapse, and it has happened before too.

 

 

My question is weather or not this is a good or bad thing, or if it should just be moderated heavily.

 

 

 

All things are good in moderation and harmful in excess, but what of this in particular?

 

 

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Dont ever hold your breath and move it. Its a recipe for disaster. If you want to practice breth retention, please find a qualified teacher of prAnayama. The breath retention prt is called kumbhaka in yoga and it must be done after certain meridians have been unblocked, usually by yogic postures. Breath retention is akin to igniting a powder charge...if you do it without proper preparatory work, the energy explosion can do very serious internal damage. One friend of mine fell very ill doing it incorrectly.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Hm, perhaps... Except I can already go a long way without significant fatigue, and i am almost never out of breath, even when i am getting head rush...

 

To note, it takes me 8-12 hours to walk 20 miles, and only around halfway does fatigue slow me down.

 

HHm... i will try more sitting breath practice for the time, see how it goes. Thanks.

 

{Edit:}

P.S.

... Mal...

 

 

WTF IS A STAINKEY?!? I jest; tee hee and all that

{/Edit:}

Edited September 29, 2011 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[joeblast]

HNJT, 2 good threads, one a shameless self plug: Pietro's learning to breathe thread, and my personal section. Learning to lengthen the breath, deepen it, doesnt involve holding it - matter of fact, learn to blur the distinction between inspiration and expiration and roll it all into one

 

you will only be able to make so much progress for a given time, try to go faster and you slow yourself down!

[Mal]

P.S.

... Mal...

 

 

WTF IS A STAINKEY?!? I jest; tee hee and all that

{/Edit:}

 

Darn good question, possibly a name my great grandfather created as nobody seems to be able to track it back further than that (While are almost as common as "Smith's" out west )

 

 

That learning to breathe thread, BKF's smooth inhalation smooth exhalation stuff is really good. You could try lengthening the breath cycle while walking untill its really smooth and slow

 

There just isn't much out there for breath holding IIRC. We do use breath holding a lot in kap (it's a bit more energizing) natural too as there are some things that you want to inhale, hold and then exhale.

 

Even so I personally prefer a wisdom breath (inhale time "1" exhale time "2x longer") as my usual breathing pattern.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Mal Stainkey

[Ish]

Please don't continue your current breathing technique, it's worst than a waste of time as you will harm yourself.

In my experience my breath goes deepest and perhaps seems to even stop just practicing meditation that has no emphasis on the breathing. It's a combination of deep relaxtion and the mind state that's achieved through meditation. You'll know that this state of breathing is much better than conscious control because it's incredibly comfortable and you will feel very good during and after your session.

[joeblast]

Please don't continue your current breathing technique, it's worst than a waste of time as you will harm yourself.

In my experience my breath goes deepest and perhaps seems to even stop just practicing meditation that has no emphasis on the breathing. It's a combination of deep relaxtion and the mind state that's achieved through meditation. You'll know that this state of breathing is much better than conscious control because it's incredibly comfortable and you will feel very good during and after your session.

ah, but one also may approach from the opposite end of the spectrum - copious amounts of focused awareness on enhancing the level of harmonization of the physical processes! immersing one's awareness, diverting the thoughtstream energy and channeling it into contrived "perfect motion."

of course that is but a tool in the box, but doing a measure of that

-fosters good form

-assists in establishing a path of least resistance deep into the breath

-keeps the mind rather occupied and helps lessen the arising of throughtformenergy (think POLR )

 

and then after some time has been spent cultivating form, it can more efficiently be left behind, in a bath of radiant formless awareness

[Ish]

ah, but one also may approach from the opposite end of the spectrum - copious amounts of focused awareness on enhancing the level of harmonization of the physical processes! immersing one's awareness, diverting the thoughtstream energy and channeling it into contrived "perfect motion."

of course that is but a tool in the box, but doing a measure of that

-fosters good form

-assists in establishing a path of least resistance deep into the breath

-keeps the mind rather occupied and helps lessen the arising of throughtformenergy (think POLR )

 

and then after some time has been spent cultivating form, it can more efficiently be left behind, in a bath of radiant formless awareness

 

Yep that's a good point, I realise that i have spent some time really "accepting" the breath and allowing it to become deep in my meditation too, rather than just ignoring it.

 

Edit- I still want to say to HNJT that i strongly advise you to not practice your breath compression or whatever causes the headrushes - it's not good.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Ish

[joeblast]

a certain amount of form-checking is appropriate in teh vein of self-inquiry, certainly dont want to be neurotic about it, but an appropriate amount for the givern person and level of training.

 

agreed on your advice to hjnt...things like embryonic breathing are more fundamental than breath retention!

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Joe. Ish. We meet in the middle.

 

I'm working in 4 ways:

 

Conscious control at times.

Simply meditating and clearing conscious focus for harmonizing.

Activity meditation; Clearing the mind during tasks, or just walking, while being ever aware of the breath, yet without conscious (control).

Activity consciousness; Coordinating movements with breathing by intent.

 

 

All of which working together to work neither inward nor outward, but to form a point or a whole.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Edit- I still want to say to HNJT that i strongly advise you to not practice your breath compression or whatever causes the headrushes - it's not good.

 

 

I am in agreement, however, I am experimenting to find a good moderation for it, to find a thorough first hand understanding of it's benefits. In other words, to compress the breath to it maximum acceptable threshold, to not get the head rush from it by not compressing too much.

 

 

I'm finding that to compress a very small amount of breath, you can gain a lot more from it than by just taking a small breath, but to compress a large amount, you could get trememndous head rush or even pass out.

[ChiDragon]

I am in agreement, however, I am experimenting to find a good moderation for it, to find a thorough first hand understanding of it's benefits. In other words, to compress the breath to it maximum acceptable threshold, to not get the head rush from it by not compressing too much.

 

 

I'm finding that to compress a very small amount of breath, you can gain a lot more from it than by just taking a small breath, but to compress a large amount, you could get tremendous head rush or even pass out.

 

You will get head rush because this is only the beginning at your present level. I think you got the basic idea. At the beginning, you do it with a small amount. Eventually, the amount will be increased in progression. Pretty soon, you can do it with a large amount. You will feel a big difference in the future. Just remember, diligent practice is the key to success in all aspects....

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Dilligent, i expect i will never stop practicing...

Consistency... Well, at least one thing is consistent, that i practice in a highly inconsistent manner!

 

But this, I feel, is a more balanced approach, the yin/yang, neither all, nor nothing.

[ChiDragon]

Now, I see your problem which relies on self discipline....

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Now, I see your problem which relies on self discipline....

 

 

No, my problem relies on finances and free time.

 

 

No job, no money, no food, no free time to spend cultivating.

 

 

Right now, i live with friends of the family. In exchange for food and a place to sleep 89% of my ("free") time is spent watching the kids, cleaning up when and where needed, taking care of the dogs, and when Mike goes to work 3-4 days a week, unless i am needed around the house, i am here in barstow "looking for work"... Which is my ONLY "free" time. When at the house, if i am doing anything for myself, i tend to get in trouble. No sitting and cultivating, or standing in stillness, it's wasting "my" time and "more importantly" theirs.

 

With a lack of options, either that or homelessness and even LESS food, I cannot help but argue your theory

 

 

HOWEVER, once i get a job and moved out, i will have the ability, for the first time since I got kicked to the streets from my dad's house (for not having an income), to make my own damned scheduel and cultivate consistently.

 

The only opportunities i have ever had so far have been during times of homelessness (and mild starvation!), so i'd like to maintain something more stable first and worry about consistency afterward.

[Protector]

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http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Oxygen+poisoning