Spontaneous Movement Qigong

[oat1239]

The topic of spontaneous movement qigong was brought up in another thread regarding the Kunlun book. I don't want to take that thread off topic so I am starting a new thread on this instead. Is spontaneous movement qigong a good way to release energy and emotional blockages and imbalances or are people just opening themself up to negative influences? If a person didn't know what they were seeing in these videos they might well be inclined to assume mental illness or strong negative influence. Even someone who knows what they are seeing may still be inclined to think that this is some sort of strong negative influence.

 

Anybody here have personal experience with Shi DeLon and his spontaneous movement qigong? Anybody have definite negative experiences with spontaneous five animal qigong practices? I must say I don't know what

to make of this sort of practice. This sure is some very strange stuff.

 

Shaolin Qigong teacher Shi DeLon (based out of the UK).

Shaolin qigong qi emssion and spontaneous movement five animals qigong:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3uo7_lhWpw&feature=related

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY-zxzFoyAA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDXknbPPfVw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

 

 

 

This guy (a muslim) came to the conclusion that this sort of spontaneous practice (and even all qigong) is due to the influence of negative spirits or 'jinns'. His point of view seems biased as he tends to lump all qigong together, but he did describe a very negative personal experience here. I don't necessarily either agree or disagree with his conclusions but his experience is worth taking into consideration. Strange stuff.

Danger of Chi

 

 

 

-

Edited September 22, 2011 by oat1239

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

For my back, which has been hit with a sort of scoliosis due to many years of inactivity and slouching in front of a computer all day.

 

 

One day, quite out of the blue, i bent over to touch my toes and barely made it to my knees before my legs spiked out in pain.

I knew something was up and knew why. So i began looking more and more in to physical fitness and came into Yoga, Chakras, T'ai Chi & Qi Gong, and Martial Arts.

 

The martial arts had always been fascinating and inspiring, but never present, sadly.

 

 

So i began stretching and discovering more problems with my body than i first realized and stressed to find solutions.

 

 

 

I've written about this in my private practice board under my old name of Stoner Shadow Wolf.

 

 

Long story short; I was worried about my back and didnt know anything i could do to help/fix it and decided to try 'experimenting' with movements and did what could only be described as spontanious T'ai Chi/Qi Gong ('chi kung'), as i moved around and shifted from stance to stance, position to position, not knowing what i was doing, only knowing.... it was working.

 

My only real advice is to try it out some time. First hand experience is the best knowable teacher.

[oat1239]

Long story short; I was worried about my back and didnt know anything i could do to help/fix it and decided to try 'experimenting' with movements and did what could only be described as spontanious T'ai Chi/Qi Gong ('chi kung'), as i moved around and shifted from stance to stance, position to position, not knowing what i was doing, only knowing.... it was working.

My only real advice is to try it out some time. First hand experience is the best knowable teacher.

 

Hi 'Hot Nirvana Judo Trend. Ok, the people doing the movements in the videos I posted above are not consciously moving at all from what is described and they are supposed to be going into some sort of REM-like or trance-like state as well. Not sure that would be exacrly the same as what you described. I personally would want to learn a lot more about the background and theory of this sort of practice before ever trying it, after seeing these videos, and I wouldn't want to try the sort of thing that is shown in the videos without the guidance of a teacher I really trusted. If I was closer to Shi DeLon (the UK) I would drop in and meet him and try to learn more, but he is quite far away. If I get the opportunity sometime I will definitely try to meet him and learn more about his five animal spontaneous qigong and other qigong.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Whoops, i'm sorry, i got a little ahead of myself.

 

What you are presenting is completely different from what i had initially interpreted.... Also, i didnt see the videos at first, slow internet. I will check one of them out... but this isnt the topic i had expected it to be...

 

 

 

{edit:}

Well, i do have some experience with the on-topic, but it was more, or less, self induced, to my knowledge.

 

While getting stoned during a time when i was first introduced to many of the energetic concepts such as chakras, siddhis, and t'ai chi, i would convulse much like some of the people in the second video, but there were no qi gong masters present, so i beleive it was more along the lines of self-healing.

I've had many times in the past, around that same time, when i would twitch about while trying to sleep, including the head turning and nodding.

 

I beleive that i am on a correct path to understanding the nature of these energies, but not so correct as to know where i am along it. I've no guidance but the abstract internet readings and personal experimentation and practice.

 

How's that saying go...? I've got a fool for a teacher/student?

Edited September 22, 2011 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[oat1239]

No worries, HNJT.

 

I sometimes experience muscle shaking and twitching and that sort of thing, but I have never had my whole limbs or my whole body flailing around like is shown in these videos. This is really quite something else to what I have ever experienced or seen.

 

I wonder if anyone here has any direct experience with the sort of five animal spontaneous qigong that is shown in these videos? Did you practice long term? What were your experiences over time?

Edited September 22, 2011 by oat1239

[fiveelementtao]

My only question is: in the beginning of the first video. Why is there no one to catch these people when they fall?

Edited September 22, 2011 by fiveelementtao

[oat1239]

My only question is: in the beginning of the first video. Why is there no one to catch these people when they fall?

 

Don't know. It appears that sometimes they use someone to catch people and sometimes they don't. Maybe it depends on how experienced the student is or what exactly is being done at the time?

[Aetherous]

At least personally, I've practiced a few different forms of spontaneous movement...and I don't like any of them!!!

 

In my opinion they are useless. Not good for health. Not good for energy, spirit, etc. It's interesting at first because it seems like something is working...but nah...nothing good comes of it.

 

Something similar is doing controlled movements with a little bit of spontaneity or naturalness. Kind of like an untrained man trying to do a slam dunk (absolute control and no spontaneity) versus Lebron James doing it (controlled movement done in a more natural way). I prefer that. "Wei wu wei"

 

But...gone are the days where I am flung around supposedly by an energy flow.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Scotty

[oat1239]

In my opinion they are useless. Not good for health. Not good for energy, spirit, etc. It's interesting at first because it seems like something is working...but nah...nothing good comes of it.

 

I wonder if we should be putting all spontaneous movement qigong in the same boat?

I think it was the first video where some of the students gave first hand accounts of getting healed or getting improvement with various health problems or drug addiction problems. Whatever is going on, some students of the form taught in the videos claim to derive benefit from it.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[oat1239]

External should become internal with time of proper practise,

except the energy flow raise, the vibration raise and the quantity one deal is raised.

Spontaneus movement also occur with "normal" movement. When you are allowing to let go to follow the flow.

 

It is something that always occur in good Qigong practise but

it should neither seeking of the movements as restricting. As some will seek it out because ones teacher told that it is a good sign to release illness blockage,

at other times would say lead to loss of energy(feels uncomfortable)when movements are too hefty.

 

I have a poem written when I join this forum about Spontaneus Qigong.

But the search function is only for 12 month range. If I can find it I place it here

again.

 

Q

 

Hi Friend. I can't tell from your reply if you watched any of the videos I posted or not, or if you have direct experience with the type of sponataneous movement qigong that is shown in those videos? The videos show something quite beyond a person just having some occasional or minor spontaneous movement. Many of these people seem to move around very frantically or strenuosly and some make all kinds of screaming and groaning noises or start crying or laughing, and that sort of thing. Some go into spontaneous five animal form movements which are supposed to be connected with cleansing and balancing of the five elements/organs, as shown in the first video. I personally am not so sure that we can lump all spontaneous movement qigong practices into one. The claim is made in the videos that it is helping for clearing energy and emotional blockages and that sort of thing, so it may have its place and purpose in the overall grand scheme of things, if true. I still can't be sure what to make of this sort of practice.

Edited September 22, 2011 by oat1239

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Birch]

I'd go check out Steven Levine and the TRE guy on this one.

 

I do think there's a negative feedback loop that a person can get into.

 

About which spirits are 'out there' vs which are 'in here' well, I figure it depends on a lot of things. Of course (you know by now;-)) my ideal is to give people as much of what I think might be helpful to them on their path as I can in a 'take what works, leave the rest sprit". IMO/IME labelling something may or may not change it's way of interacting with you and vice-versa.

[Aetherous]

I wonder if we should be putting all spontaneous movement qigong in the same boat?

I think it was the first video where some of the students gave first hand accounts of getting healed or getting improvement with various health problems or drug addiction problems. Whatever is going on, some students of the form taught in the videos claim to derive benefit from it.

 

Placebo, or else relaxation response.

 

Whatever healing they are perceiving is not due to improved qi flow, because most of what you see in those videos is actually harmful to the qi (except for the deer exercise where you are essentially stomping on the ground).

 

The students don't look like they are benefitting to me. Especially when they are falling on their sacrum from the standing position! OUCH.

 

However, I am not wishing to prevent anyone from exploring and finding out for themselves.

[oat1239]

You will sooner or later running into spontaneus movements when you do any energy practise without doing a spontanues movement qigong.

 

But this spontaneus movement will not last forever external.

If you live a life with less surpression than there is also less to release.

You will instead stand there like the rock but the difference is you move internal strong. Energy flow without obstruction and hinderance.

 

I have experienced strong shaking of muscles or in the dantian area and that sort of thing when internal energy is moving within, and I have seen one of my teachers practicing an advanced form of internal qigong that moved him through various postures and movements while he was in a deep meditative state, but his movements were serene and controlled and methodical and cyclical. Not at all like the frantic type of movements and reactions shown by many in the videos I posted here. This is really something quite different than I personally have ever witnessed before. It really seems to me that not all spontaneous movement qigong or spontaneous movements in qigong is the same. What the exact differences are I wouldn't know however. Thanks for the reply.

[oat1239]

However, I am not wishing to prevent anyone from exploring and finding out for themselves.

 

Hey, no worries. I appreciate the feedback.

 

 

Whatever healing they are perceiving is not due to improved qi flow, because most of what you see in those videos is actually harmful to the qi (except for the deer exercise where you are essentially stomping on the ground).

 

I am wondering what lead you to the conclusion that is is definitely harmful to the qi and that any healing is not due to improved qi flow or the release of blockages? I am not saying I think you are necessarily not right, but just want to know what lead you to your conclusion?

[Aetherous]

Well, experience with these methods, as well as methods that do improve the qi flow.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[oat1239]

IMO/IME labelling something may or may not change it's way of interacting with you and vice-versa.

 

Hi special -K-. Sure, labelling something one way or another doesn't change how it interacts or how it affects us and vice versa, but it can help to make a distinction between different things that work in different ways. Running and jumping for example may have a lot of common principles behind them such as leg movement and flexing of muscles and that sort of thing, but they can help us achieve different things. If someone needs to get over an obstacle on the ground they might try jumping over it if it is not too large, but if a wild tiger is attacking them they might want to try running instead of jumping. Sometimes you probably would want to use a combination of the two for best results. Although things can appear similar, they may produce quite different results. This is why I am hesitant to lump all spontaneous movement qigong into one, and am also hesitant to jump to conclusions about any form of it despite what it might look like on the surface.

Edited September 23, 2011 by oat1239

[Birch]

It does or it doesn't change anything? The labelling? I'm not quite sure I understood the first part (I didn't :-)) but the second part was very interesting. Good post :-)

 

Special K was my favourite breakfast cereal, when I ate cereal. Now I shudder at the thought of Shreddies and I cower before Tony the Tiger And I despise Mini-wheat, especially with frosting. And I hate Pop Tarts.

[oat1239]

qigong/page__p__218735__fromsearch__1entry218735

 

I want to add some poem for those advance here on Spontaneus movement.

Those may know what I wrote here.

 

"First there is nothing.

Then there is something

After it is stronger.

Later it seem has gone.

Then there is something again.

After it is more strong.

And things repat again and again"

 

Q

 

My experience is not all approaches are the same. Each has its own natural way or natural cycle, but not all are the same. In some cases movement might arise and fall and continue to cycle and in some cases one only knows less and less.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Astral_Anima]

Well, experience with these methods, as well as methods that do improve the qi flow.

 

Hey Scotty,

Curious, what did you find that actually DID improve qi flow as opposed to SQ?

 

-Astral

[oat1239]

It does or it doesn't change anything? The labelling? I'm not quite sure I understood the first part (I didn't :-)) but the second part was very interesting. Good post :-)

 

Special K was my favourite breakfast cereal, when I ate cereal. Now I shudder at the thought of Shreddies and I cower before Tony the Tiger And I despise Mini-wheat, especially with frosting. And I hate Pop Tarts.

 

I was just thinking that labels are only labels for convenience but the label doesn't change what is being labelled. Maybe I am wrong however. It has been noted that how we look at or approach things can somtimes at least change the very nature of how the thing appears, or at least it changes our interaction with that thing. For example, light can be demonstrated to be both a particle (photon) or a wave depending on how the experiment is constructed. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle states something like that the more certain we know the position of a subatomic particle the less certain we can know its momentum and vice versa. So, the more we focus on one aspect, the more uncertain we will be able to determine the other aspect. If labels tend to encourage a particular focus then maybe they do affect the outcome. So maybe I am wrong. On the other hand, maybe I didn't follow what you were saying at all.

 

They tend to put a lot of salt in cereal, and they sometimes also put a lot of sugar as well. The preservatives they put are probably not so good as well. Tony the Tiger was greaaaaaat. I always liked shredded wheat and corn flakes but the additives mentioned are probably not good for you. These days I prefer real oatmeal without sugar or salt. A good wholesome food.

[oat1239]

Tell us about your expirience.

Hi Friend. I already have described it somewhat. My experience is mainly with taoist stillness meditation and some forms of tai chi and qigong. These days I am mainly practicing a system of taoist cultivation practice that mainly involves various standing postures, bagua circle walking, and sitting meditation. I have never practiced any forms of spontaneous movement qigong, but I am interested in learning more about them. I too have been told by some of my teachers that one should not intentionally pursue spontaneous movement in qigong, but these teachers were not teaching a system of qigong that specifically promotes spontaneous movement, although some mentioned that some spontaneous movement might sometimes arise. The stillness meditation starts with very little and leads to less and less.