September 23 - September 30 2011

[manitou]

 

But I think the fact that we can all sit around and point to the same wavelength of light and say "red" has something to be said for it as well. Our individual perception of that wavelength may differ, but our ability to identify the wavelength is the same.

 

"Our individual perception of that wavelength may differ". This seems to be where the rubber meets the road. Is the fact that we're all the same (as far as having rods and cones and an eye apparatus) and yet different (we're all different sizes, and we have different eye colors!) affect our actual perception to the point where red to me would look even slightly different than red to you? Is there any chance that eye color would affect the way color is visualized due to a variance in how the light is taken in?

[doc benway]

I often wonder if what is green to me might not appear to be yellow to you. How do we know green is green to everybody? Maybe it's red to some. Mind boggling, if you ask me.

I think about this and it's not just green. It can get really complicated when you get into things like emotion and sound and ....

jeez!

 

 

Well, the dates are gone. Did anything significant happen?

My dog died...

:sniff:

 

 

Hey Hardyg!

 

This stuff (objectivity, facts, logic & perception) is both something of a favourite topic of mine as well as an area of weakness for me. I'm a bit of an idiot in that i chase after my weaknesses:-)

The way we label subjective perception is IMO/IME very important. I think the term "illusion" implies there's some kind of "real" perception somewhere. I think the admission that there might not be is a first step in mutual understanding (and appreciation?)

I'm also curious as to whether these wavelengths are also subjective perceptions in some way. I know we've accepted them (the waves) as truth but i can't recall what means of measurement was used to get to this understanding. Is the act of measuring itself an act of subjective perception? And i wonder if there are also other or deeper truths about waves that we can get to.

Apech said a neat thing about every scientific theory being inherently wrong but i don't know if waves count as a theory or not. I need to go brush up my categories.

I think this is a good area to try and be careful with... but it's difficult to really know anything here, no?

 

 

"Our individual perception of that wavelength may differ". This seems to be where the rubber meets the road. Is the fact that we're all the same (as far as having rods and cones and an eye apparatus) and yet different (we're all different sizes, and we have different eye colors!) affect our actual perception to the point where red to me would look even slightly different than red to you? Is there any chance that eye color would affect the way color is visualized due to a variance in how the light is taken in?

 

Yup, this is where the rubber meets the road.

Perception, awareness

[Birch]

"I think this is a good area to try and be careful with... but it's difficult to really know anything here, no?"

 

Agreed. Doesn't stop people acting as if they do though. And when I say 'act' I mean actual concrete consequences, including consequences on others who didn't get a word to say about it all. My take is that it's better for me to be able to understand all this stuff and wield it in ways that are useful and compassionate and skillful rather than taking a 'let it all happen anyway' approach just because I lack the skills because I didn't learn them earlier in life. They certainly weren't taught when I was at school. Now they are, but they're taught alongside very specific ideologies IMO, or at least the people I've met that wield it well share very specific ideologies.

 

I think (especially in socio-political arenas) the folks who have the insight, compassion etc don't always also have the rhetorical skills to carry their insights and compassion to fruition in ways that would make a positive difference. So attaining this particular 'siddhi' ;-) is important (at least to me it is:-)) despite it often being associated with less-than positive intents:-).

[Marblehead]

I think so Mr MH:-)

What it was exactly and it's consequences, hum, can't share but I do believe I reached a turning point in path/practice. It's as if i had been horsing around on the wrong one (path) for far too long.

For the world, many significant things. Just don't expect them all to be reported:-)

 

Hey, you don't even have to understand them in words as long as you understand the feeling.

[Owledge]

I'm also curious as to whether these wavelengths are also subjective perceptions in some way. I know we've accepted them (the waves) as truth but i can't recall what means of measurement was used to get to this understanding. Is the act of measuring itself an act of subjective perception? And wonder if there are also other or deeper truths about waves that we can get to.

I'm not sure whether we're talking about the same thing now, but verifying this would be very easy. It will become apparent quickly if someone had a different wavelength perception. You simply have to take two types of red and say "The left one is brighter" - and if someone else disagrees, then there's a different perception of ... OK, intensity. But you can adjust the example. Just say that one red is a little bit more towards yellow than the other.

If someone perceived the wavelength of green as if it was the wavelength of red, they would notice that something is wrong when at a traffic light.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Hardyg

[Birch]

I'm not sure whether we're talking about the same thing now, but verifying this would be very easy. It will become apparent quickly if someone had a different wavelength perception. You simply have to take two types of red and say "The left one is brighter" - and if someone else disagrees, then there's a different perception of ... OK, intensity. But you can adjust the example. Just say that one red is a little bit towards yellow than the other.

If someone perceived the wavelength of green as if it was the wavelength of red, they would notice that something is wrong when at a traffic light.

No I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I think what i should have said was was the "discovery" of wavelengths themselves a subjective "act" of perception as much as the perception of the colours themselves is understood to be subjective? Does that make sense?

The experiment was very cool.

[Birch]

Hey, you don't even have to understand them in words as long as you understand the feeling.

That's interesting Mr MH. And why i need to IMO/IME improve my "word skills". It's one thing to feel as if a particular person's intention and expression of that is "---" (no words for it;-)) but quite another to respond skillfully. And quite another to be tempted to respond for vanity/one-upmanship and not do it:-)

 

Right now, for example, I'm sorely tempted to jump into a thread but I'm doing my best to refrain for my own good:-)

[manitou]

I think about this and it's not just green. It can get really complicated when you get into things like emotion and sound and ....

jeez!

 

 

 

Oh, agreed! You're sad about your dog (my best wishes, by the way). I was sad about the horse I had to put down. We both felt those soft, tender, quivering emotions inside. We both felt our own hearts breaking, the lump in our throat when we even talk about it. And the similar phenomena created the very same predictable events within both of us: First our eyes stung, then we cried. Water started coming out of our eyes. The same physical reaction was created.

 

This is how I know that I Am You and You are Me.

[manitou]

I'm not sure whether we're talking about the same thing now, but verifying this would be very easy. It will become apparent quickly if someone had a different wavelength perception. You simply have to take two types of red and say "The left one is brighter" - and if someone else disagrees, then there's a different perception of ... OK, intensity. But you can adjust the example. Just say that one red is a little bit more towards yellow than the other.

If someone perceived the wavelength of green as if it was the wavelength of red, they would notice that something is wrong when at a traffic light.

 

 

But who would be the guy who decides which is brighter? Brightness to one may be something else to another? I haven't a clue. But even if the measurement were taken by a machine, it would take a human with his own perceptions to set the values.

[Owledge]

But who would be the guy who decides which is brighter? Brightness to one may be something else to another? I haven't a clue. But even if the measurement were taken by a machine, it would take a human with his own perceptions to set the values.

Everybody should know which one is brighter, because when a room is dark, you can't see anything. "Brighter" is when you start seeing the room. Everybody has that kind of experience. And now you take a red light bulb and dim it down. That way you know how brightness translates to colors... in case white as a color didn't deliver the message.

 

Your avatar picture is a teacher unheard by you.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Hardyg

[doc benway]

This is how I know that I Am You and You are Me.

When you feel the connection in your bones, so many things that were unclear become clear.

[manitou]

 

Your avatar picture is a teacher unheard by you.

 

 

I look forward to hearing what he has to say.