Sex and Karma

[Empty Cloud]

The karmic implications of sexual contact with an individual or a series of individuals. Are destinies entwined or karma distributed between both bodies upon intercourse and is this why monogamy is recommended in some circles, to preserve constancy and mutual refinement and to reduce the amount of involvement with other individual's intricate karmic networks and their negative implications thereof? I've heard everything, from Osho's (and I'm paraphrasing) "The more people you're with the richer a human being you become." to abstinence for the sake of complete purity and cultivation to the as long as you don't feel guilty about it or don't attach to it it will not create any karma. The question being:

 

Do you think one permanently links one's spirit to another through sexual intercourse? Will this bound one to Earth longer and is that -one- of the(not -the-)reasons why monks abstain? If so are these ties able to be eradicated even while not being at high levels of cultivation and how?

 

I would appreciate if the discussion remains focused on the topic and not on individual cat fights for self-validation. I don't see the use of being redundant about disagreements for pages and pages. Thank you... Bums.

[konchog uma]

Do you think one permanently links one's spirit to another through sexual intercourse? Will this bound one to Earth longer and is that -one- of the(not -the-)reasons why monks abstain? If so are these ties able to be eradicated even while not being at high levels of cultivation and how?

 

just like electron movement in atoms that have touched, and spin in particles that have touched, although miles away they are linked forever.

 

then again why worry since we are by that line of thought just playing out the karma we have had since the big bang when we were all 1 point in the void

 

but i think that karma does not hinge on whether or not you have guilt, or believe in karma, etc. It is just part of action/reaction cycle. In fact, it IS that cycle. When a karmic linking is debt based or negative it is a bond or tie as you say. As i have learned, the only way to break it is to pay off that karma with beneficial action. If one is unwilling to do that, then option 2 is suffering. This way of considering karma is only 1 interpretation, there are more, and i don't claim to be right. Haahaha no catfights indeed *waves white flag*

[Bubbles]

Do you think one permanently links one's spirit to another through sexual intercourse? Will this bound one to Earth longer and is that -one- of the(not -the-)reasons why monks abstain? If so are these ties able to be eradicated even while not being at high levels of cultivation and how?

 

I am no authority on the subject, I have no academical knowledge nor channeled knowlegde about it . I am just bubbling so take it for what it's worth. I have no doubt that some very inspired and spiritual bums will chime in and fill you with all the rationale behind the phenomenon.

 

My very earthy and personal experience is that each time I meet randomly one of the goddess I slept with (even if it was a one time shot years ago), we (me and she) have a special feeling and a inner world blossoming in our eyes while we are talking. It is not a desire thing (I never slept again with them after we separated) nor it is ( as far as I can see) an affective thing: it may be the experiential sign that we have created a bond.If I can sense it now, why not extending the bond to an indefinite period of time (if time is still experienced in the afterlife)?

 

edited to add this: for me basically this is karma. Buddhists, Daoists and even Christians say that we take it with us whenever we go. So..

Edited September 28, 2011 by bubbles

[DamonM]

I know that I have different levels of emotional echos or residue from past lovers/girlfriends. Some still strong others I hardly remember. I do think that at least for myself certain lovers are more "karmic" in nature therefore the lesson to learn was different. But I don't believe all sexual relationships are karmically bonding. Maybe it has to do with soul chemistry and initial intention for engaging in sexual actives with these different woman.

 

D

[RiverSnake]

We can have innumerable amount of deep and intimate relationships with others...but they don't have to be sexual, sometmes non-sexual relationships can be even deeper than those we have with lovers.

 

Karma means acion. For certain actions there are natural consequences: some are good some are bad. Sexual relationships can be very good and healthy, why would healthy relationship karmatically indebt us?

 

I think simply sex is a superficial way of looking at karma, IMO its more about the conscious and unconscious attachements that we carry which may cause you to hold yourself back. Its all energy be it sex or whatever.

 

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[d'avid]

I am glad this subject is brought up and hope for contributions of people that know more than I do.

 

I have wondered about the hidden (after) effects of sexual intercourse several times but have had no interest to find out more about it by irreversible practice. I only had "penetrating" sex with one lady with which I had a longterm relationship, but stopped more than once when I was about to have the opportunity for sex with other girls. Something warned me against the consequences. When I realized that these girls were not really interested in entering a conscious lasting connection or knowing / feeling my soul, lust disappeared.

 

After separation from the woman I was sexually intimate with I observed that it took about more than half a year from the last sexual contact with semen loss until I stopped feeling her (often accompanied by sensations of her body) in my daily life. About 6 years later a healer removed an energy blockage that had a cause in a sexual contact with her...

 

I have also observed by feeling at different occasions how especially girls, but also boys had part of the subconcious stream from the mind of their sexual partner active in them. A clearvoyant friend once described me the aura of a guy that I knew to by sex-addicted with often changing partners. It was not round, but having kind of wild extensions in several directions.

 

I heard different things as fas as the period of this influence is concerned. Some told me it would last at least half a year, some say it will be there during the full incarnation. Unfortunately I don't know for sure. I feel certain that a subconcious exchange (emotional or astral influence) is going on for a longer period between partners that had sexual intercourse. That the subconcious emotions are often sources of troubles, may be one reason that (some) monks refrain from sex. Another might be that (imho) it's the power in real desire that brings fruits, also towards enlightment, so desire has to be freed from the auto-suggestions of the lower vital soul to serve the higher soul's purpose.

 

I don't think the link was a problem if it was a link to the (higher) spirit - it is a source of trouble because it influences the lower parts of the structure that are detuned to the higher aspects of one's being.

 

Another question I neither can answer: Is this ongoing connection between individuals that had sex established through penetration (of the penis entering the vagina) or through the sacrifice of the liquids / semen?

Edited October 3, 2011 by d'avid

[Guest QIan Xie]

Karma is a myth, go get laid...

 

QianXie

Edited October 2, 2011 by QIan Xie

[RiverSnake]

I have never heard a teacher talk about sex this way. Very interesting perspective. For about the first 2 minutes he talks about body memory, sex and how it can affect you negatively.

 

Edited October 2, 2011 by OldGreen

[deci belle]

[Gerard]

For about the first 2 minutes he talks about body memory, sex and how it can affect you negatively.

 

Excellent video.

 

Body memory is what causes the mind to undergo extreme cravings if it's not fulfilled. The liver is an organ that stores all our sexual experiences and it carries the karmic seed for future incarnations.

 

"Every thought, feeling, perception, or memory you may have causes a modification, or ripple, in the mind.

It distorts and colors the mental mirror. If you can restrain the mind from forming into modifications,

there will be no distortion, and you will experience your true Self." (Swami Satchidananda)

 

This saying is partly accurate because it fails to identify the body as well in the karmic processing. Whatever you do to your body it will have an immediate effect on your mind with karmic consequences.

[Wuji108]

The reason for monks to remain celibate is for preservation of Jing which is lost through ejaculation in males and in females more through menstruation. But complete celibacy/no orgasm can cause stagnation in the lower Jiao (the belly) so unless you have practices for keeping the Jing/Qi from stagnating you should have orgasm at least once per week/month/quarter depending on your age from a pure health perspective.

 

That being said I do think we create links to people through sexual encounters. Energetic links. Those links can be "undone" when the attachment to the person, the role, the drama, the emotion, etc. are released. I tried to sever all those links at once a few years back - this was not a good way to do it - some couldn't be cut, I ended up ill and injured for about a week afterward, and then all kinds of people that I hadn't heard from or thought of in years popped into my life for the next few months.

 

For the links that couldn't be cut, I had to gradually lessen them first. There were a lot of unexpected changes in the people around me during this process, that may have had to do with the severing of the links, especially for my children (not that we'd had sex, but a link had been established with them preceding birth). So if you want to do something like that, based on my own idiocy, I would suggest going a little more slowly...

[Wuji108]

Woops - posted twice same message...

Edited October 4, 2011 by Wuji108

[Harmonious Emptiness]

To my understanding from reading Buddhist sutras and commentaries on sutras, Karma arises from actions which themselves arise from attraction and/or aversion. Attraction and aversion arise from us believing in the existence of self, and they also revert us back to this belief. This is, arguably, the way we become trapped in samsara.

 

When we give up our affinity to pleasant sensations, not attributing them to the self (realizing that self is absent to absorb them), and equally for unpleasant sensations.. then we cease samsaric actions or karmic actions. When this is done, karmic debts are erased entirely. This event is like a portal, on one side we have karma, on the other we have no karma. Step in: karma; Step out: no karma. Step in again: karma; etc., until we have trained and trained and trained and the door frame is removed; then we move to either side but the room is the same

[Guest QIan Xie]

[RiverSnake]

You wouldn't want me to mislead anyone, would you?

I think proving / disproving Karma would be one of the first things on a Daoists "to do list", no?

And isn't Karma a little like the fish that got away, "he was this big, no lie"..?

 

i submit for your approval ;-)

 

I think Karma exists, its simply self-created...not some external force that dictates our destiny. We often have to wrestle with all the negative thought-forms which we created unconsciously in the past and that continue to suck our energy.

 

-Anyone who has invested time in self-cultivation can tell how it is necessary that they must die to there previous selves in order to grow beyond there limitations.

 

-Mu 2 cents, Peace

Edited October 4, 2011 by OldGreen

[Wuji108]

You wouldn't want me to mislead anyone, would you?

I think proving / disproving Karma would be one of the first things on a Daoists "to do list", no?

And isn't Karma a little like the fish that got away, "he was this big, no lie"..?

 

i submit for your approval ;-)

 

Not sure about the proof aspect - direct experience of all the life threads removes the need for "proof". If we are out of balance then we have karma, if we are in balance then no karma. What takes us out of balance? attachment, desire, emotion, ego, all those things that bring us back into the mortal plane of existence. But karma also has an element of time associated with it - past action creates future effect - an activation of "Return is the motion of the Tao" even while "there is no time, there is no space" and all actions and reactions exist simultaneously and without the constraint of time, the threads of existence coil together through time and space...

[deci belle]

[Guest QIan Xie]

Not sure about the proof aspect - direct experience of all the life threads removes the need for "proof". If we are out of balance then we have karma, if we are in balance then no karma. What takes us out of balance? attachment, desire, emotion, ego, all those things that bring us back into the mortal plane of existence. But karma also has an element of time associated with it - past action creates future effect - an activation of "Return is the motion of the Tao" even while "there is no time, there is no space" and all actions and reactions exist simultaneously and without the constraint of time, the threads of existence coil together through time and space...

 

edit out

Edited October 5, 2011 by QIan Xie

[Guest QIan Xie]

 

Speaking as a goyl, when offered a sexy mystery with karmic sparkles, my eyes sparkle all the more. When conditions are meet, there is no need to act. This is cleaning up remnants of past lives. Regardless of conditions …when unaffected mutual response resulting in bliss has no residue, naturally there is lack in terms of karmic effluence. Bliss itself destroys karma, but attachment to conditions creates karma …therein lies the rub.

 

Your response was cute, Qian Xie!❤ Of course I want you to mislead me— but if you mislead anyone else, I shall be very jealous ~hahahahaa!! And speaking of misleading, (not referring to you, Qian Xie), and not in the strict sense, but it is ourselves which we actually mislead.

 

edit out

Edited October 5, 2011 by QIan Xie

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I'd like to add too, that beyond the definition I posted earlier, I think that karma does exist on the level of attracting like energies, like a second level of karma. This is not a mechanical system that works the same every time. I would say it's almost like a living system that works according to which ever way the water flows or the wind blows at the time.

 

Some people may deny that they believe in "superstition" yet they will still avoid someone with or without certain energies, feeling that it will effect their lives somehow down the road. The same goes for our own output, in that when do things that create the wrong energy (emotional or otherwise), it hangs around us like karma and ends up influencing events or the lack there of. Some people feel the same thing about objects which they believe to carry the same energy with them that was put into them. We can balance this energy to become like our own, but we can also be influenced by it if we're not conscious of our own energies and intents (right intent and right meditation being part of the Eightfold Path).

 

At the same time, recognizing all of it correctly (Right View/Understanding about phenomena and self) aids one in avoiding these things, if I'm not mistaken..

[Wuji108]

The highest practice is carried on in the midst of everyday ordinary situations unbeknownst to anyone. This is refining self and others simultaneously and fulfilling destiny by following the heart's desire without stepping over the line.

 

How very true - to maintain practice while carrying on ordinary life so that the practice is ordinary life shifts us radically...the the ordinary human becomes the very best ordinary human and eventually morphs, quietly, without ceremony into the sage or immortal on earth...

[dwai]

In order to not accrue further karmic debt, one has to do desireless action ( or be wu wei) . The bhagavad gita refers to this as nishkAma karma. It is obvious that its not possible to have sexual contact without "desire", so then one has to see whether the coupling "just" happens or was it driven by force of will. Former would minimize the impact, latter will aximze it.

[mjjbecker]

Michael Lomax writes about cutting energy cords with other people in his book, 'A Light Warriors Guide...'.

 

We form energy attachments when we go through relationships. These attachments are literally cords that connect us with that person. Energy drains constantly through these cords.

 

He writes about how to cut these cords when it is appropriate to do so.

[gendao]

In order to not accrue further karmic debt, one has to do desireless action ( or be wu wei) . The bhagavad gita refers to this as nishkAma karma. It is obvious that its not possible to have sexual contact without "desire", so then one has to see whether the coupling "just" happens or was it driven by force of will. Former would minimize the impact, latter will aximze it.

WOW, brilliant idea!

[suninmyeyes]

Michael Lomax writes about cutting energy cords with other people in his book, 'A Light Warriors Guide...'.

 

'We form energy attachments when we go through relationships. These attachments are literally cords that connect us with that person. Energy drains constantly through these cords.'

 

He writes about how to cut these cords when it is appropriate to do so.

Intersting, something I felt too . Care to share more? Like suggestions how to cut them and determing the apprpopriatness? What about familiy relationships?

Or Michael, if you fancy sharing on the subject at all?