Nationalism...of benefit, or the bane of society?

[strawdog65]

Lately I have been thinking deeply on the benefit and hinderance of Nationalism.

 

It seems as if a two edged sword, both sides equally able to cut us when we

mistakenly act, and believe that because of our location of being, that,

that somehow makes our actions ok.

 

There seems to be a huge disconnect with spiritual people who believe that their

fervent support for their country, somehow makes them better than someone from another

country with a different sense of nationalism and spiritual belief system.

 

I am confused how there can be "awareness" in people and yet they still believe that one country is better than another. If we look at everything in a material sense than what need is there of "awareness"?

 

I have come to believe that this sense of nationalism I see everywhere I go, Which includes things like "God bless America" stickers and things like a picture of the American flag with the words... "These colors don't run". There are many more examples,

I sure you can all think of something you've seen that is just pure nationalistic drivel.

 

This belief, that we in our country are better than someone else in their own country,

based on an arbitrary border, which is non-existent from space, just seems more and more to be what keeps us from working together as a world community. How will we as a people living on one planet, ever be able to cooperate and survive the trying times of the future, when we push ourselves up...all the while pushing someone else down.

 

I don't believe you can be a "spiritually aware" person if you believe yourself to be

better than someone else. I think that people who cling to their belief of their country of government being better than any other, are blinded to the bane that this belief represents and propagates, and this I can see as no benefit to the whole of society.

 

Remember....Nationalism has gone to far in the past.

Hitler was all about Nationalism.

 

There are many things we do as a nation to help others...but what I am talking about

is the underlying current, the thought of being "better".

 

There is no "better" if we are all equally deserving of enlightenment.

 

I know the Tao contains both the dark and the light,

and as such the good along with the bad, but how does one reconcile knowing

that even though knowing about Tao helps in understanding all this, what about all of the people in this world that blindly believe what they are told by the talking heads on their TV's and in their church pulpit's.

 

What do you all think about it?

[Protector]

Almost 7 years ago I moved to Canada

And from my experience of Canada,

Everyone else in Canada also moved to Canada

 

It's kinda weird like that

 

Nationalism didn't sink in, yet

[Seth Ananda]

I personally believe that nationalism is one of the great evils on earth.

It is so Insipid because it looks so Innocent on the surface {of course I love and am willing to fight for my great Country} but then it allows people to justify all kinds of Horror and atrocity.

 

In Australia here, round John Howards time {our old captain} he began a very successful get nationalistic campaign. Before then we were more open to Immigration, and really didn't give a shit regarding being Aus that much. After all we only have 200 years of history here. Not much time for a culture to develop.

 

Now every white trash yob with a ute has an Aussie flag sticking off it, and stickers saying 'Fuck off, we are full!' in side the shape of Australia {directed at Immigrants} or stickers saying 'Aus, If you do not like it, Leave!' {directed at anyone trying to Implement change here}

 

Now at voting time, there is massive mobilisation against Immigration pro candidates.

 

Most of it seems to be rooted in Racism, as if the people were white and spoke English and needed help we would open up and let them all in. Sad.

[strawdog65]

I personally believe that nationalism is one of the great evils on earth.

It is so Insipid because it looks so Innocent on the surface {of course I love and am willing to fight for my great Country} but then it allows people to justify all kinds of Horror and atrocity.

 

In Australia here, round John Howards time {our old captain} he began a very successful get nationalistic campaign. Before then we were more open to Immigration, and really didn't give a shit regarding being Aus that much. After all we only have 200 years of history here. Not much time for a culture to develop.

 

Now every white trash yob with a ute has an Aussie flag sticking off it, and stickers saying 'Fuck off, we are full!' in side the shape of Australia {directed at Immigrants} or stickers saying 'Aus, If you do not like it, Leave!' {directed at anyone trying to Implement change here}

 

Now at voting time, there is massive mobilisation against Immigration pro candidates.

 

Most of it seems to be rooted in Racism, as if the people were white and spoke English and needed help we would open up and let them all in. Sad.

 

 

Hi there Seth!

 

I'm glad to have your reply. The things you mention are the things I sense

going on here in the USA as well.

 

I know it is immensely unpopular to point at the nationalistic pride of a country(any)

and then say this is a bad thing, but that is how I feel.

 

It seems as if a lot of the nationalistic garbage today is being fed by the religious

right wing believers, and supporting talking heads on channels like Fox news.

 

I constantly hear people saying derogatory things about China because so many products are made there. The fact that this is so, is of our own doing, and this is the thing people can not believe to be true. When a country gives up the ability to manufacture goods because they want to acquire them at the lowest possible price, I would hardly blame the country that is able to meet those needs within the budget that has been set.

 

I feel as though our sense of "Nationalistic pride" is a slippery slope of doing what would be unthinkable otherwise.

 

The sense of nations and borders...it KEEPS people... a p a r t.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

While I think it is okay to celebrate successes and virtue, nationalism just reeks of cult-like mentality in so many facets. It basically serves to turn all the citizens into cult members who must worship the inner circle of politicians without question, while everyone has to conform in various ways, and think they're better than anyone outside of the group (which is used to justify domination and cultural deprivation). It's national cultism..

[Seth Ananda]

While I think it is okay to celebrate successes and virtue, nationalism just reeks of cult-like mentality in so many facets. It basically serves to turn all the citizens into cult members who must worship the inner circle of politicians without question, while everyone has to conform in various ways, and think they're better than anyone outside of the group (which is used to justify domination and cultural deprivation). It's national cultism..

Yep, look at what Nazism, The American Dream and British sovereign rights have done to our world.

Even here at TTB's I have had Fanatics tell me that the American Dream is Sacred and Holy

The sense of entitlement over others that Nationalism seems to breed is hideous.

 

Then the bleating Sheep cry "We have a right to defend our way of life!" Even when that way of life is murdering Innocents all over the world and sucking the few valuable precious resources owned by third world country's off them for almost nothing in return.

 

Here is an Interesting Timeline:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations

[JustARandomPanda]

What an interesting thread.

 

I can not recall where I read it but the argument I've seen on more than one occasion was that it is not Democracy, Theocracy, Communism, Populism, Socialism, Anarchism, etc that is the most prominent "ism" gaining ground worldwide but rather Nationalism with its typically ethnic/linguistic overtones. Tribalism is just Nationalism (imo) on a smaller scale but it's general outlines are visible in either form.

 

My guess is that it is probably always there - just either goes a bit more dormant for a while then pops up again when something rubs enough of the population a certain way to hit the "flare up" point.

 

It is not just Nation-States that have this mentality. It can be found in some religions as well.

 

Judaism teaches that the Jews are God's Chosen People.

 

I don't know how many Jews actually do believe that these days. My guess is probably very few but who knows. Just saying that's one of the things taught in the Old Testament. I saw it as a method of re-enforcing an ethnic or tribal identity that either ( in its good form) celebrates one's identity or (in it's bad form) has an element of supremacy.

 

That is just one example that isn't necessarily restricted to a Nation-State. There are others that fall in that similar line of thinking.

 

 

My belief is it is Nationalism/Tribalism/Ethnicism in it's virulent form (supremacist) that becomes a problem.

 

 

 

What I wonder is:

 

Is seeing many people displaying Pro USA stickers or making Pro USA posts on web forums and social networks a sign the virulent form is starting to awaken?

 

And what would the above have to do with "spiritually aware" people? I don't count people who don't engage in Spiritual Cultivation practices as being "spiritually aware". They may TALK a good game about how spiritual they are but I just don't see it born out in everyday life around me.

 

I get the feeling a lot of the Christian Right rank-and-file look around and see many other Christians the same way I do. That is - "Christian-in-name-only" sort of thing. Hence, they like to rant about what a "Godless" country the U.S. has become.

 

 

So why do I seem to be picking on them?

 

Don't really mean to particularly it's just that right now they make up a lot of the people who self-identify as being in the Tea Party. And the Tea Party is definitely Pro USA. I'm going to guess at least a few Tea Partiers are some of the folks you might be talking about as being A ) Nationalistic and B ) "spiritually aware".

 

 

 

***Footnote****

 

Just wanted to say I personally don't count Tea Party supporters as being among the "spiritually aware" despite their own claims to the contrary (unless they're a practicing Taobum). To me a spiritually aware person is someone who's spiritual cultivation practices have born fruit (or are working to manifest it in the future). To get that you have to engage in Insight practices among other practices. Something I have never heard such people as these do.

 

I suppose that is one thing I mourn about the decline of the appeal of becoming a monk or nun in modern day society. My mom's church just sold an old mansion it owned because the last nun who lived there died and no young people have any interest in becoming a nun or monk anymore. I don't even think there is a general awareness among the Christian public that those old monasteries or convents taught genuine spiritual cultivation techniques. That knowledge among the general populace (if it ever did exist) seems to be lost.

 

In the old days spiritual cultivation practices (like reciting the Lord's Prayer continuously with prayer beads while focusing on the heart center - a Christian Mantra that can quiet the mind and awaken Bodhicitta) was mainly restricted to the monasteries and convents. I do not recall from my investigations of there being any well known corresponding lay traditions of spiritual cultivation practices in Christianity like what I've seen preserved in Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism or Sufism.

[manitou]

Thank you, SD, for bringing up this topic. I absolutely concur with just about everything you've said.

 

What difference does it make where each 'soul' makes its appearance on the planet? Each soul is absolutely as important as the next, as IMO all souls are connected as the One. We are the people living on the other side of the world. We just don't realize yet that we are a huge, many armed creature.

 

I hate the idea of nationalism. The bumper stickers here in Ohio are enough to cause a gag reflex. The one I saw the other day on a truck (with gun rack, of course) was "I've got my Freedom, my God, and my Money. You can keep your Change". The mindset of many many people here in middle-America is unbelievable, especially having grown up on the California coast.

 

I see the world as an orb that has all the wealth and riches piled up in several little areas of the globe - and the rest of the world can just all go to hell, as far as they're concerned. Our 'profit motive' society has turned into dog eat dog; only those who were born with the smarts and the good health and the good breeding and lucky enough to be born into the right family are the ones that see the material benefits. These midwesterners cling to the mindset of the old industrial revolution days - when steel was king and when pottery was being made here in Ohio - and they're just sure the Republicans can bring back the happy whistling factory workers. They have no concept of globalization for the most part; of course, every time there's a downturn in the stock market or a bad economics report, it's Obama's fault; never mind that the entire world economy is now interconnected and a downturn somewhere affects everyone everywhere.

 

Honestly, I've never felt this way before. But the idea of nationalism is becoming more repugnant to me all the time. It almost pisses me off to see a flag flying from the antennae of a bubba-truck with big fat wheels.

 

I think we're at the point of global solutions. I think the United Nations better get up to speed real fast. I just can't see it going any other way.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

This nation, that nation, any nation, all nations; We're all human.

 

 

Once we finally get past this, we can focus on our other brothers and sisters, the 'animals' we so callously prejudge authority over.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I'd like to move a bit from the macrocosm to more of the microcosm that I, at least, can see.

 

I'm in college right now, and we've got a pretty strong rivalry with another college. We're pretty even rivals both academically and athletically. But we also have lots of joint academic and research programs going on. Scientists (I'm thinking of what I've seen in science departments) from both institutions have nothing but the utmost respect for one another, and together they've done some pretty neat things. There are also programs where students from each can take classes at the other university during the semester, so there's a lot of togetherness.

 

This, I think, is good. There is unity and solidarity in each group, but it can still recognize another entity.

 

That said, sports rivalries can get downright nasty! Douchebag college kids vandalizing stuff, fans who aren't affiliated with the institution itself getting into trouble, etc etc etc. This is dangerous and unhelpful.

 

Academic rivalries are good natured, I think. Competition can be good. It fosters mutual respect, and can spur people on to better themselves.

 

I think in these instances it is good to be able to have an identity that you can claim, and it feels good to represent this identity in competition with another entity.

 

I think that nations are the same way. I'm American, and proud of it. There are a lot of things that have happened in history to shape our nation. A lot of good things that I'm proud of. And lots of bad things, even today, that I'm not proud of and would like to see changed. I studied abroad one semester in Japan, and it was fun, but I was damn glad to get back to America. Even the assholes in the airport were a sight for sore eyes (Japanese people are just so damn polite! )

 

You can go on and on about tribalism and stuff, but I don't think that's inherently bad. People are going to hang out with people who are similar. I identify with cultivators, gamers, and students. In a crowd of a bunch of random people, that's what we'll gravitate towards, and that's what we'd represent. It feels good to do that. And I don't think we need to ignore that.

 

Problems come when we start targeting other groups because they are different, or when we start putting ourselves "above" other groups.

 

But I don't think that it's very productive to try and say "we're all the same, live your life like that", because, well, that ain't going to happen I'm going to wave the Pepsi banner, and someone else will wave the Coke banner. I'll wave the American flag, and someone else will wave the Japanese flag.

 

I prefer to recognize, own up to it, and embrace it. A LOT of shit has happened because of America. But that doesn't mean that it also doesn't have a LOT of very positive meanings. I'm proud to be an American. I'm different than, say, Japanese people. But different doesn't mean better/worse.

 

And, yeah, in the interest of friendly rivalry, I'd love it if America could start rivaling Japan in all of the cool tech gadgets that are made. Because, you know.... we're losing and we're starting to look like fools

[Protector]

When you give something a name, you take away the ability of it having any other name

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

When you give something a name, you take away the ability of it having any other name

 

 

Oh, I dunno about that, names can be legally changed!

 

 

Be mindful, and names will reveal their true power(s).

[strawdog65]

While I think it is okay to celebrate successes and virtue, nationalism just reeks of cult-like mentality in so many facets. It basically serves to turn all the citizens into cult members who must worship the inner circle of politicians without question, while everyone has to conform in various ways, and think they're better than anyone outside of the group (which is used to justify domination and cultural deprivation). It's national cultism..

 

Hi HE!

 

I sometimes feel as if the USA is following a path that coddles the yesmen

of our society and disregards the dissenters...even though historically,

the dissenters create changes that are of the benefit to all.

 

Whatever happened to the independent spirit to follow what you believe to be true,

but leave open the window, if you find out the truth is something different?

Pride in country, to me, does not include turning a blind eye to whats wrong with it.

[strawdog65]

Yep, look at what Nazism, The American Dream and British sovereign rights have done to our world.

Even here at TTB's I have had Fanatics tell me that the American Dream is Sacred and Holy

The sense of entitlement over others that Nationalism seems to breed is hideous.

 

Then the bleating Sheep cry "We have a right to defend our way of life!" Even when that way of life is murdering Innocents all over the world and sucking the few valuable precious resources owned by third world country's off them for almost nothing in return.

 

Here is an Interesting Timeline:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations

 

Hey Seth,

 

I checked the timeline. Didn't have time to read it all. Is there an obvious correlation between these military actions and the rich and powerful taking what they want from the poor countries?

 

I think the sense of entitlement is a real pisser to me. What..just because you were born in the USA, and you fly a flag and have bumper sticker decrying anything and everything to blame on President Obama, that makes you a Great American? The absurdity of this attitude is gross and sad.

Its a big world and there are people who are making meaningful contributions to it with

a whole hell of a lot less then we have here in our rich countries. The devaluing of a person because of their place of birth or circumstances of their upbringing is surely the wrong path, IMO.

[strawdog65]

What an interesting thread.

 

I can not recall where I read it but the argument I've seen on more than one occasion was that it is not Democracy, Theocracy, Communism, Populism, Socialism, Anarchism, etc that is the most prominent "ism" gaining ground worldwide but rather Nationalism with its typically ethnic/linguistic overtones. Tribalism is just Nationalism (imo) on a smaller scale but it's general outlines are visible in either form.

 

My guess is that it is probably always there - just either goes a bit more dormant for a while then pops up again when something rubs enough of the population a certain way to hit the "flare up" point.

 

It is not just Nation-States that have this mentality. It can be found in some religions as well.

 

Judaism teaches that the Jews are God's Chosen People.

 

I don't know how many Jews actually do believe that these days. My guess is probably very few but who knows. Just saying that's one of the things taught in the Old Testament. I saw it as a method of re-enforcing an ethnic or tribal identity that either ( in its good form) celebrates one's identity or (in it's bad form) has an element of supremacy.

 

That is just one example that isn't necessarily restricted to a Nation-State. There are others that fall in that similar line of thinking.

 

 

My belief is it is Nationalism/Tribalism/Ethnicism in it's virulent form (supremacist) that becomes a problem.

 

 

 

What I wonder is:

 

Is seeing many people displaying Pro USA stickers or making Pro USA posts on web forums and social networks a sign the virulent form is starting to awaken?

 

And what would the above have to do with "spiritually aware" people? I don't count people who don't engage in Spiritual Cultivation practices as being "spiritually aware". They may TALK a good game about how spiritual they are but I just don't see it born out in everyday life around me.

 

I get the feeling a lot of the Christian Right rank-and-file look around and see many other Christians the same way I do. That is - "Christian-in-name-only" sort of thing. Hence, they like to rant about what a "Godless" country the U.S. has become.

 

 

So why do I seem to be picking on them?

 

Don't really mean to particularly it's just that right now they make up a lot of the people who self-identify as being in the Tea Party. And the Tea Party is definitely Pro USA. I'm going to guess at least a few Tea Partiers are some of the folks you might be talking about as being A ) Nationalistic and B ) "spiritually aware".

 

 

 

***Footnote****

 

Just wanted to say I personally don't count Tea Party supporters as being among the "spiritually aware" despite their own claims to the contrary (unless they're a practicing Taobum). To me a spiritually aware person is someone who's spiritual cultivation practices have born fruit (or are working to manifest it in the future). To get that you have to engage in Insight practices among other practices. Something I have never heard such people as these do.

 

I suppose that is one thing I mourn about the decline of the appeal of becoming a monk or nun in modern day society. My mom's church just sold an old mansion it owned because the last nun who lived there died and no young people have any interest in becoming a nun or monk anymore. I don't even think there is a general awareness among the Christian public that those old monasteries or convents taught genuine spiritual cultivation techniques. That knowledge among the general populace (if it ever did exist) seems to be lost.

 

In the old days spiritual cultivation practices (like reciting the Lord's Prayer continuously with prayer beads while focusing on the heart center - a Christian Mantra that can quiet the mind and awaken Bodhicitta) was mainly restricted to the monasteries and convents. I do not recall from my investigations of there being any well known corresponding lay traditions of spiritual cultivation practices in Christianity like what I've seen preserved in Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism or Sufism.

 

Hi SB!

 

I'm glad you've brought this around to the spiritual aspect.

 

Based on my own opinions of what I have been witnessing the past 20 years or so...

Hatred in all it's many flavors is still very much alive and well. Today we can see a very thinly disguised Hatred whenever we see someone claiming to be a devout"anything"

and as they bring in those of like mindedness, they totally push aside those of a differing view. It's done so smoothly, it seems as though these people really care,and are steadfast in their religious belief. Gov. Rick Perry is a good example for today's times. When there was a huge prayer meeting being given in Texas last month, and it was more than clear that the separation of church and state was being violated, what did he do? He had the day of prayer. He proclaimed it as America's day of prayer or something like that.

What is very scary, to me, is that this man, as messed up as he is...could become president of the United States. Someone who is devides people because he has chosen to

proclaim his belief as being the only right belief to have.

 

How's that old saying go?

God, country and ?

You insert what expletive you want in there...

For me what they are saying when I hear this is... F. U.

 

No nation, no group, no person...is every right 100% of the time.

And to hide behind a religious belief and say It's Gods will?

 

Gotta' go rinse my mouth out now!

[strawdog65]

Thank you, SD, for bringing up this topic. I absolutely concur with just about everything you've said.

 

What difference does it make where each 'soul' makes its appearance on the planet? Each soul is absolutely as important as the next, as IMO all souls are connected as the One. We are the people living on the other side of the world. We just don't realize yet that we are a huge, many armed creature.

 

I hate the idea of nationalism. The bumper stickers here in Ohio are enough to cause a gag reflex. The one I saw the other day on a truck (with gun rack, of course) was "I've got my Freedom, my God, and my Money. You can keep your Change". The mindset of many many people here in middle-America is unbelievable, especially having grown up on the California coast.

 

I see the world as an orb that has all the wealth and riches piled up in several little areas of the globe - and the rest of the world can just all go to hell, as far as they're concerned. Our 'profit motive' society has turned into dog eat dog; only those who were born with the smarts and the good health and the good breeding and lucky enough to be born into the right family are the ones that see the material benefits. These midwesterners cling to the mindset of the old industrial revolution days - when steel was king and when pottery was being made here in Ohio - and they're just sure the Republicans can bring back the happy whistling factory workers. They have no concept of globalization for the most part; of course, every time there's a downturn in the stock market or a bad economics report, it's Obama's fault; never mind that the entire world economy is now interconnected and a downturn somewhere affects everyone everywhere.

 

Honestly, I've never felt this way before. But the idea of nationalism is becoming more repugnant to me all the time. It almost pisses me off to see a flag flying from the antennae of a bubba-truck with big fat wheels.

 

I think we're at the point of global solutions. I think the United Nations better get up to speed real fast. I just can't see it going any other way.

 

 

Hi there Manitou!

I have missed you very Dearly, and am happy to see you back!

We must share some past life experiences or something...you are very in tune with my own mindset on this and many other things. I so happy to see you here.

 

Back to the subject...

The Bubba trucks with Bubba's indside them and the bumper stickers saying exactly what you have written, I see them often. They are very infuriating. They are really things of hatred, and I'll tell you why I think that. Many people when President Obama won the election, just could not stand the thought of the good ole' US of A having a (god forbid) B l a c k president! What a scandal! He was going to do all kinds of evil and anti white folks things if he got in there...that's what they said..... Since he did get in there and fair and square to boot, they have been on him since day -100. They had the anti Obama everything printed up and ready to go. Hatred has a way of skewing what an otherwise balanced person may be percepting. This hatred, has united with the right wing God lovers, homo haters, and otherwise KKK without their robes on...to become the Tea(baggers)party. Hatred with a very thin icing on top...nonetheless hatred.

 

Nationalistic pride swells up in these people with a pressure that I worry their heads may explode! America can do NO wrong! If you don't LOVE this country and all the warts that inhabit it..then you aren't wanted and should leave!

 

And here I thought caricatures were made up images of people blown all out of proportion to reality...has our reality become the caricature?

[strawdog65]

This nation, that nation, any nation, all nations; We're all human.

 

 

Once we finally get past this, we can focus on our other brothers and sisters, the 'animals' we so callously prejudge authority over.

 

Hi NJT!

 

If only the time was now that we could enact this thinking process.

To really see the whole of our existence and appreciate it's entirety.

[strawdog65]

I'd like to move a bit from the macrocosm to more of the microcosm that I, at least, can see.

 

I'm in college right now, and we've got a pretty strong rivalry with another college. We're pretty even rivals both academically and athletically. But we also have lots of joint academic and research programs going on. Scientists (I'm thinking of what I've seen in science departments) from both institutions have nothing but the utmost respect for one another, and together they've done some pretty neat things. There are also programs where students from each can take classes at the other university during the semester, so there's a lot of togetherness.

 

This, I think, is good. There is unity and solidarity in each group, but it can still recognize another entity.

 

That said, sports rivalries can get downright nasty! Douchebag college kids vandalizing stuff, fans who aren't affiliated with the institution itself getting into trouble, etc etc etc. This is dangerous and unhelpful.

 

Academic rivalries are good natured, I think. Competition can be good. It fosters mutual respect, and can spur people on to better themselves.

 

I think in these instances it is good to be able to have an identity that you can claim, and it feels good to represent this identity in competition with another entity.

 

I think that nations are the same way. I'm American, and proud of it. There are a lot of things that have happened in history to shape our nation. A lot of good things that I'm proud of. And lots of bad things, even today, that I'm not proud of and would like to see changed. I studied abroad one semester in Japan, and it was fun, but I was damn glad to get back to America. Even the assholes in the airport were a sight for sore eyes (Japanese people are just so damn polite! )

 

You can go on and on about tribalism and stuff, but I don't think that's inherently bad. People are going to hang out with people who are similar. I identify with cultivators, gamers, and students. In a crowd of a bunch of random people, that's what we'll gravitate towards, and that's what we'd represent. It feels good to do that. And I don't think we need to ignore that.

 

Problems come when we start targeting other groups because they are different, or when we start putting ourselves "above" other groups.

 

But I don't think that it's very productive to try and say "we're all the same, live your life like that", because, well, that ain't going to happen I'm going to wave the Pepsi banner, and someone else will wave the Coke banner. I'll wave the American flag, and someone else will wave the Japanese flag.

 

I prefer to recognize, own up to it, and embrace it. A LOT of shit has happened because of America. But that doesn't mean that it also doesn't have a LOT of very positive meanings. I'm proud to be an American. I'm different than, say, Japanese people. But different doesn't mean better/worse.

 

And, yeah, in the interest of friendly rivalry, I'd love it if America could start rivaling Japan in all of the cool tech gadgets that are made. Because, you know.... we're losing and we're starting to look like fools

 

 

Hi Sloppy!

 

I agree with you that competition can be a very good thing, especially when its for motivation and has appreciation for your opposition. It's the cut throat mentality and the lack of regard for anyone but the winner we could do without.

 

Pride in country goes hand in hand with the deeds the country has done.. be them good or bad. There is an amount of blindness that accompanies love of country when one professes that their country can do no wrong, and F.U. if you don't Love it then leave!

Wrap that up in a blanket of religious piety, and you have a recipe for world domination and atrocities galore.

[strawdog65]

When you give something a name, you take away the ability of it having any other name

 

 

Hi there Sinfest....

 

What name would you give to what we are talking about?

 

The sounds I make when speaking, do they have anything to do with

the concept within my mind? I don't believe I think in "words",

concepts are universal, only communication with words is lacking.

 

Interesting train of thought though..thanks!

[Protector]

Words invoke dualistic thinking, think of one thing and you suddenly imagine the opposite, think of what something is and think of something that isn't.

Imagine what it's doing to labels, titles and such

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Hi NJT!

 

If only the time was now that we could enact this thinking process.

To really see the whole of our existence and appreciate it's entirety.

 

OH, but we CAN.

 

 

Just as with any practice presented on this forum, the only thing holding us back is ourselves.

The only obstacle we ever face in this, as with most things, is the self.

 

 

We can ALL start, on the individual level, and THAT is the required starting point to get this moving forward.

Why wait till everyone else is doing it?

 

If it already suits you, then you can be one of many to push it forward and open eyes.

[Seth Ananda]

Hey Seth,

 

I checked the timeline. Didn't have time to read it all. Is there an obvious correlation between these military actions and the rich and powerful taking what they want from the poor countries?

 

 

Hehe, It is just a list of the astonishing sheer number of military engagements that USA has engaged in, one for every letter of the alphabet and more! What a great country!

You could argue that some of these battles were justified, and maybe some were, but most of that list is just America shitting on smaller country's [sorry I mean protecting its Interests] so sloppy can live the good life, enjoy the good achievements and feel proud to be an American.

lol dont worry I feel this way about Aus as well. We are like America's little attack hamster at the moment politically speaking. We would Invade a lot more if we were just Bigger! lol

{militarily speaking of course}

[manitou]

 

And here I thought caricatures were made up images of people blown all out of proportion to reality...has our reality become the caricature?

 

 

Hi Straw Dog - nice to be back. you were instrumental

 

I wouldn't have thought for a moment that the extreme right wing crazies are making the impact that they are. We'll find out after the next election whether our reality has become the caricature or not... The only thing that keeps me sane is knowing at the deepest level that this is all one big world evolution continuing, and it seems to know what it's doing, despite appearances to the contrary. I think it would be nice if we all just sat here together on the fence and watched it go by.

Edited September 30, 2011 by manitou

[strawdog65]

Hi Straw Dog - nice to be back. you were instrumental

 

I wouldn't have thought for a moment that the extreme right wing crazies are making the impact that they are. We'll find out after the next election whether our reality has become the caricature or not... The only thing that keeps me sane is knowing at the deepest level that this is all one big world evolution continuing, and it seems to know what it's doing, despite appearances to the contrary. I think it would be nice if we all just sat here together on the fence and watched it go by.

 

 

Glad to have you here.

You and me, and that fence sitting there watching.

Not such a bad Idea....

Reminds me of one of my most favorite poems....

 

 

 

The birds have vanished into the sky,

 

And now the last cloud fades away,

 

We sit together, the Mountain and I,

 

Until only the Mountain remains.

 

 

- Li Po -

[manitou]

Glad to have you here.

You and me, and that fence sitting there watching.

Not such a bad Idea....

Reminds me of one of my most favorite poems....

 

 

 

The birds have vanished into the sky,

 

And now the last cloud fades away,

 

We sit together, the Mountain and I,

 

Until only the Mountain remains.

 

 

- Li Po -

 

wow. He became one with it all. Very nice, dawg.