Inside or Outside

[ChiDragon]

Here's an alternative translation:

 

天地定位 Heaven and Earth establish the direction.

山澤通氣 Mountain and Marsh reach Qi.

雷風相薄 Thunder and Wind are together thin.

水火相射 Water and Fire are together spread out.

 

 

Heaven and Earth establish the counterclockwise direction (from Heaven to Earth).

Qi in line two can be read as the trigrams Water + Heaven (inside Mountain and Marsh).

'together thin' can be understood as 'close together'.

'spread out' can be understood as 'most far away / opposite).

That'll say the Later Heaven Bagua but seen from the outside!

 

As a rule of thumb, the trigrams should be always looking from the inside.

 

This is the correct layout of the Later Version Bagua:

 

 

The site below illustrates how the Early Version Bagua evolves to the Later Version Bagua.

Ref link: Bagua Layouts

Edited October 11, 2011 by ChiDragon

[al.]

I know that...

 

I will spell out my point again for the sake of clarity and to the best of my ability:

 

1.Xian Tian bagua represents the pre-celestial state of the universe. In this precelestial state, yin and yang are perfectly balanced: you can see that each trigram in the circular arrangement is balanced by its opposite. You have for each pair exactly, 3 yang lines and 3 yin lines. No dynamism, nothing that denotes coming or going, SO no directions.

 

2. Hou Tian Bagua represents a post-celestial state. It is our world. Hence you have all the down to earth features you want. You have seasons, you have terrestial magnetism etc,SO it makes total sense to have directions.

 

This is the general and basic principles of my understanding and this is the basis of my humble practice of some the arts that unfold from there.

 

I know you don't take it. So just leave it. I was just pointing out something that I find important to remember, but after all, I should say: let it be!

 

Hi bubbles,

 

thanks for the clarification. I do agree with you about the this, as this is how the bagua diagrams should be approached in general.

 

Perhaps where the rift lies is that in some traditions of divination the Xian Tian Bagua are used to represent the seed of an event, even if it happens to also be in the manifest realm, whereas the Hou Tian Bagua can represent the path into the future.

 

I've read about this in the books by Master Zhongxian Wu- 'seeking the spirit of the book of change' - recommended.

[lienshan]

As a rule of thumb, the trigrams should be always looking from the inside.

My Shuo Gua source with chinese text and Legge translation

 

The Bagua is described in the sections 3 to 18

 

The two sections 5-6 are describing the Later Heaven Bagua (Hou Tian Bagua) sequence:

thunder-wind-fire-earth-marsh-heaven-water-mountain seen from the inside

 

The section 3 belongs as earlier mentioned to the confucian Xi Ci II (6th wing)

This 'confucian BaGua' has the sequence:

heaven-mountain-thunder-water-earth-marsh-wind-fire

 

The sections 7-18 are describing the Former Heaven BaGua (Xian Tian bagua) sequence:

heaven-thunder-water-mountain-earth-wind-fire-marsh seen from the inside clockwise

 

Note: thunder and wind are reversed in the famous but much later Shao Yong BaGua

 

The section 4 is like 7-18 but the sequence is seen from the outside counterclockwise

thunder-water-mountain-heaven-wind-fire-marsh-earth

Edited October 12, 2011 by lienshan

[mYTHmAKER]

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Edited October 21, 2011 by mYTHmAKER