Shaking, Bouncing, Swaying, Writhing, Convulsing

[sean]

Todd on the forum here has rekindled my interest in shaking qigong, or in this case more accurately bouncing qigong. I really got a lot out of Winn's spontaneous "shaking the tree" practice found on one of his CKF videos but never did it routinely. Also, I realize in retrospect I was imposing a preference for flailing about wildly in all directions and I had a sort of strange hidden desire to suddenly tap into some kind of latent genius dynamic twisting, twirling, leaping qigong form buried in my nervous system. When that wouldn't happen in 5 minutes I got bored. heh. But the way Todd taught me is a lot more like a simple meditation. Basically you just bounce vertically up and down and pay attention. That's it. Sometimes I am still drawn to throw in a little twisting or undulating, but the core practice is just the bounce. It's great because you can do it for as little or as long as you want. I'm just going to tack on a few minutes of bouncing before my AYP meditations.

 

I did a little more research today and found a cool variation. The Tantric Tailbone Piledrive! Check it out:

 

Via Umaa Tantra

 

[...F]irst place your mind in your tailbone, and try to "feel" from those nerves. Then...

 

For skeletal shaking, do *not* swing the tailbone forward and backward, which increases fluidity, not solidity (those pelvic tilts or "tucks"are a totally different exercise, used to open up the sacrum).

 

Instead, the knees joints do not move horizontally as they bend. They stay in the same place. To get the right feeling and motion, stand and place your toes and knees up against a wall in front of you, and raise and lower your butt a few inches, keeping the knees touching the wall as you bend them. Now bring yourself off the wall and move the same way during the exercise.

 

Think of your spine like a heavy pile driver, going deep into the earth as you accelerate your tailbone downwards a few inches, stopping suddenly while keeping the body loose and relaxed, so that it feels like your bone marrow keeps traveling downward through the bones for an instant.

 

Breathe deeply and naturally throughout, and recover upwards with minimal acceleration after each downward drop. The spine stays perpendicular to the ground at all times (no "forward-backward "humping" motion).

 

...

 

I'm also inspired to finally pick up Jan Fries book, Seidways: Shaking Swaying Serpent Mysteries which details the practice of shamanic convulsive trances as a powerful tool for self-transformation. (I really enjoyed his other book Visual Magick.)

 

 

Sean

[freeform]

After the shaking I normaly also do the practice of lifting yourself up on the balls of your feet then dropping so that your heel strikes the ground and the vibration goes up to the top of your head.

 

If I really relax (not bracing for the expected shock) the feeling is very interesting - grounding but also uplifting.

 

I also was inspired by Plato's ourchase of the Soloflex vibrating platform thingy I wish there was a UK version. Looks like it would get all that dense jing vibrating in the bones and give the connective tissue a workout if you take on effective poses.

 

Plato - if you're arround - how's it going with the soloflex - any developments? worth the money?

[Todd]

I'm also inspired to finally pick up Jan Fries book, Seidways: Shaking Swaying Serpent Mysteries which details the practice of shamanic convulsive trances as a powerful tool for self-transformation. (I really enjoyed his other book Visual Magick.)

Sean

 

 

Have you read this book yet? Were there any insights for you?

 

Your post inspired me to start shaking again. It is still early going, but the cyclic aches and negative emotions that I described to you as symptoms of recovery are seeming to be yet another example of what I am beginning to think of as the "activation energy" of a practice. I recently also stopped regular meditation for about a month and restarting reminded me of the hill of negative effects that I have to climb for a few days before all of the beautiful aspects of the practice really start to shine. With this in mind, I decided to shake for a short time every day before standing, wether or not I feel "recovered". Like I said, still early going, but today I felt great after shaking, despite feeling really horrible yesterday. This might also have to do with my general tendency toward stagnation, which makes a stagnation busting practice like shaking pretty intense for me.

 

As you can tell, I'm no expert on shaking. I'll keep you posted on things as they progress, and let me know how things are going with you.

 

Todd

[Ian]

I'm also inspired to finally pick up Jan Fries book, Seidways: Shaking Swaying Serpent Mysteries which details the practice of shamanic convulsive trances as a powerful tool for self-transformation. (I really enjoyed his other book Visual Magick.)

Sean

 

How about his "Living Midnight - three movements of the Tao?" I really enjoyed that one too.

[sean]

freeform, thanks for the tip on that heel drop, I'll try that. And that soloflex looks cool, I wonder if we can get Plato in here for a word on that.

 

Todd, I haven't picked that book up yet. I'm really looking forward to it, I just want to get a couple books off my plate first before I start a new one. I think my shaking practice is unearthing a little healing roller coaster for me as well. The first few days I felt fantastic and had an incredible release in my solar plexus as I was going to sleep. But then today I slept soo long and was still really groggy and melancholy. Now, later in the evening I am feeling much better again though. I believe this is a powerful practice. Really blissful in the moment. Also simple and spontaneous. My four favorite qualities in a practice.

 

Ian, I plan on giving Fries a thorough study. I loved Visual Magick. And I want to get into Living Midnight, glad to hear a bum endorsement ... also his Celtic book is appealing to me and maybe his Norse material as well.

 

Sean

[Spectrum]

Todd on the forum here has rekindled my interest in shaking qigong, or in this case more accurately bouncing qigong. I really got a lot out of Winn's spontaneous "shaking the tree" practice found on one of his CKF videos but never did it routinely.

 

I saw some guys online practicing Discharging into 1.5ft dia birches getting them to shake. I notice when you place your hand on a tree and be still the opposite occurs, the tree sways you. I'm also reminded of the hip rotation swaying and loose hands I commonly see silver and golden years Asian women doing. Regardless of the style or context, the breadth in which we learn from natures Way is a wonder to me.

 

 

Also, I realize in retrospect I was imposing a preference for flailing about wildly in all directions and I had a sort of strange hidden desire to suddenly tap into some kind of latent genius dynamic twisting, twirling, leaping qigong form buried in my nervous system.......but the core practice is just the bounce.

 

Is this bounce part of a larger opening, moving, or closing schema? Sounds like mama bouncing me in her lap!

 

 

[bold]stopping suddenly[/bold] while keeping the body loose and relaxed.....Breathe deeply and naturally throughout...

 

Can you describe your breath a little more in relationship to the "sudden stop" at the end of the first part of the description?

 

...

 

I'm also inspired to finally pick up Jan Fries book, Seidways: Shaking Swaying Serpent Mysteries which details the practice of shamanic convulsive trances as a powerful tool for self-transformation. (I really enjoyed his other book Visual Magick.)

 

One day while using Feng Shui to search for suitable practice spots I stumbled across a curious couple of "Northwest Granola Types" on a day trek amongst the geothermal upwellings. Now thinking they were up for some of that special outdoor fun for couples and not wanting to be disturbed I disembarked from the localized ley hunt (hah) and set sights on a cave further up the way. Later on as my tai chi that day would have it I ended on a completely different spot then where I started, but the view was better. To my surprise the lovers of the earth is what I find, writhing in time with an unseen song, with their clothes on, that is writhing around all alone! Without judgement towards either the use of psychedelics or trance convulstions in general, I was reminded of what I have read of Mercia Elliad in his descriptions of some forms of shamanic trance. What it did not remind me of however was anything to do with Taoism.

 

I'm thinking on a practical level if this behavior was practiced in the public square the police would show up. If you stumbled across it in the middle ages perhaps it was a demonic posession. Either or, I'm not to say there arn't some times i've convulsed in my life. The Taoist classics say the ancients "breathed through their heels." How could they have done that if they were writhing around on their bellies? Man doesn't crawl but a few years and stands the rest. Stand like a tree if you got to anyways.

 

Spectrum

Edited October 5, 2006 by sean

[Todd]

I'm not sure if anybody is interested in this, but just thought I'd follow up with recent experiences. It turns out that increasing negative feelings from shaking every day weren't just a hump that I needed to pass over, but were actual calls to rest. I got a pretty clear message from my body, but I was like, "This is an experiment, I want to be sure" and shook another day. Now I'm sure.

 

I'm a bit disappointed since this is by far the best bang for the buck physical practice that I have come across. I could shake for five to ten minutes followed by significantly longer periods of standing meditation and notice pretty damatic effects on my strength, movement and general vitality. These effects did come at a price, and I found myself on a rollercoaster of aches and negative emotions, which would break open into an increasing sense of strength. It would take 2-4 days to recover. But during those days I would get pretty low, much lower than I have been since I started meditating, the kind've low where I didn't want to run into people because I felt my low energy would drag them down. Stringing days together without rest and being hit like a ton of bricks has me turned off of shaking right now.

 

I am not sure if I will take up this practice again. I may build up to it with other movement exercises and Chinese medicine. If I do start again, I will be very conservative for awhile. Maybe once a week. I want to feel good more often than not. Sometimes a diet of all bitter becomes, well... bitter.

 

Maybe I should change my signature quote to something sweeter.

[turbo]

I also was inspired by Plato's ourchase of the Soloflex vibrating platform thingy I wish there was a UK version. Looks like it would get all that dense jing vibrating in the bones and give the connective tissue a workout if you take on effective poses.

 

Kinda along the same lines, has anyone tried one of these "Chi Swings"?

[sunshine]

Kinda along the same lines, has anyone tried one of these "Chi Swings"?

 

I had something like the chi-energizer... one of the more stury and expensive units... gave it back... then the guy I bought it from did not want to give my money back... so I had to call a lawyer... pretty much saying all about the use I got out of it...

[Yoda]

I'm a bit disappointed since this is by far the best bang for the buck physical practice that I have come across. I could shake for five to ten minutes followed by significantly longer periods of standing meditation and notice pretty damatic effects on my strength, movement and general vitality. These effects did come at a price, and I found myself on a rollercoaster of aches and negative emotions, which would break open into an increasing sense of strength. It would take 2-4 days to recover. But during those days I would get pretty low, much lower than I have been since I started meditating, the kind've low where I didn't want to run into people because I felt my low energy would drag them down. Stringing days together without rest and being hit like a ton of bricks has me turned off of shaking right now.

 

that nicely articulates my eventual experience with every chi practice I've tried!!

 

I would say just reduce, periodize, crosstrain, etc. Not only crosstrain in chi practices but also other dimensions like straight up physical exercise, stretching, stillness type meditations, etc.

 

This was a hard won lesson for me, so I hope it can be easier for others in the future.

 

Another cool thing to keep in mind is to track how you feel on a moment to moment daily basis and not pay as much attention to the peaks and valleys of the practice itself as a guideline.

 

-Yoda

[Treena]

I do the exercise the same way Freeform does. A short period of shaking followed by a number of 'soft like a cat dropping to the floor' heel drops. My intention with this exercise is to loosen up stagnant energy in the body then to drop it into the ground.

 

Todd, I agree with Yoda about not overdoing things. Also wondering if you're getting lots of stagnant energy shaking loose, but then it's not going anywhere? However, your intention with the exercise may be a lot different from mine, so that may not be it either. Are you grounding into the lower dantien at the end?

[Todd]

Yoda,

 

Not to split hairs, but I would call shaking more of jing practice than a qi practice. Not that I'm sure what that really means.. hehe... ahem. Well anyway, I say that because I do a lot of standing. The only problem that I've had with standing is perhaps that I haven't included enough movement to avoid stagnation. My lack of difficulty with standing is probably because it suits my condition quite nicely, since I've had a strong tendency towards deficiency in recent years. I also emphasize emptiness more than any energetic sensations. Shaking feels very different from standing. With standing emptiness is coupled with body awareness and increasing energy. It has had a pretty powerful effect on my immune system, with colds being very rare, and allergies disappearing. It has not affected the material level of my body very much however. Shaking went directly for the material. It literally shook things up and got them moving, and seemed to be producing the jing that allows such material changes to occur. With my general state of material deficinecy though, it seems that I have to be very careful with shaking. Strong medicine.

 

Good thoughts on cross training though. I heartily agree. I've been moving more towards this type of practice recently. Its easy to get out of balance grabbing onto just one thing and thinking it will take one somewhere.

 

 

Treena,

 

I generally don't try to do much of anything with my energy. Its a quirk of mine. If I can't do it formlessly, I tend not to do it. When I was taught shaking though, my teacher emphasized the importance of sending stagnant energy out through the feet after shaking. I did that just to be consistent with what I was taught and I still had the same sort of reactions.

 

The heel drop exercise sounds interesting. Thanks for calling that to my attention. I'll probably incorporate that if I start shaking again.

 

 

Todd

[Treena]

Todd, sounds like Michael Lomax's Stillness Movement Meditation might be just the thing for you.

 

You don't direct anything. Just focus on the LDT and relax enough to let it all happen on its own. I've been able to accomplish it when not stressed. When I can drop down and be. Bliss actually. Yet life often seems to get in the way of that.

 

Check out his book... hold on, I have to find it... Okay, A light Warrior's Guide to High Level Energy Healing.

 

And really, that's all you do. Stand in good taiji posture (hands at side), or sit (hands on LDT), and concentrate attention on the lower dantien. Let your body do what it will. There is a bit of an opening method to concentrate attention on the LDT. And an ending method to help work the chi through many of the channels, and especially to tonify the kidneys.

 

Hmm... really hoping I'm ready again, too! Corrects posture and energy lines and everything. It's when I realized I was losing my microcosmic orbit energy because of posture.

 

Hmm. Yoga people have the term Namaste. What's ours?

[Todd]

[forestofsouls]

This is synchronous because I just took a seminar on this this last weekend to boost my Tai Chi practice. We learned a few dynamic qigong techniques followed by a more spontaneous chi flow.

 

According to Sifu Wong, the dynamic portion of qigong is to generate chi. Then the free-er portion allows the qi to circulate. Anyone interested in learning from a live master can look here. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

[DaoWaDiddy]

I'm a bit disappointed since this is by far the best bang for the buck physical practice that I have come across. I could shake for five to ten minutes followed by significantly longer periods of standing meditation and notice pretty damatic effects on my strength, movement and general vitality. These effects did come at a price, and I found myself on a rollercoaster of aches and negative emotions, which would break open into an increasing sense of strength. It would take 2-4 days to recover. But during those days I would get pretty low, much lower than I have been since I started meditating, the kind've low where I didn't want to run into people because I felt my low energy would drag them down. Stringing days together without rest and being hit like a ton of bricks has me turned off of shaking right now.

 

Todd,

You might want to take a look at a forum article that Michael Winn posted here. He talks about the drawbacks of only building chi via qigong and advocates the Inner Smile practice - definitely worth checking out.

 

This hit me at the right time in my practice as I've been noticing some interesting swings in my state. My current model is that that this has to do with deeper levels of unblocking stuck chi that have associated emotional content, etc. - a way to buffer this process and more easily recover my balance will be useful so I will be adding more time smiling.

 

All the best,

Charlie

[Todd]

Dao,

Yeah, how I relate to others (and hence to myself) has definitely been a sticking point for me, and is likely the source of much of the physical stuff I'm dealing with now. One thing that I'm exploring right now is recognizing how little I really know about the person with whom I am interacting. Throwing away the stories that I usually associate with a person creates so much more room in the interaction and opprotunities to be pleasantly surprised. Also, if I have a bad experience with someone, I don't repeat it to myself as a story and so I am prepared to react positively to anything positive that might unfold. I'm still free to react to the negative things, but they don't stick around so much. It also helps with not attaching to good experiences, which I think is just as destructive as attaching ot negative ones. Its something of a never-ending exploration.

[freeform]

Also, if I have a bad experience with someone, I don't repeat it to myself as a story and so I am prepared to react positively to anything positive that might unfold. I'm still free to react to the negative things, but they don't stick around so much. It also helps with not attaching to good experiences, which I think is just as destructive as attaching ot negative ones. Its something of a never-ending exploration.

 

That's some fantastic advice! Seriously - we'd have way more enlightened beings on earth if we all did this. There are no positive or negative experiences - only the mind makes them so... every experience is both good and bad - if we try and hang on to one and dismiss the other we fall into the mind's game of illusion - reality is always balanced, the mind always tries to make it more good or more bad and by doing that it distorts reality into illusion...