tummo

[suninmyeyes]

Hi Immortal,

I must admit to an almost an allerigic reaction when 'Westerners' are being compared to Asians as having less of a spiritual capacity or something and being put down like that.

I suggest that maybe the resarcher you have mentioned did not know where to look.

 

I lived in Asia for 4 years and met MANY fraudelent practicioners there too.

For example:

I recall just coming to this pilgrimige spot meeting a friend who was there already for some time. We sat on the verandha sipping tea and watching the street.

Then he pointed out a sadhu with long hair dressed in white looking at two females. My friend was saying:'I watched him do this every day now, look he is going to start chatting to them, he is looking for students and there is a chance that theyll fall for him too. So we looked and listend and that is what happened.

The irony is that my friend knew him becouse he(sadhu) has just arrived in that place recently, attended 2 weeks yoga course and become a 'guru'.

 

How about this white guy, fraud? Tummo is his practise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=madoDvtKEes

[Immortal4life]

Hi Immortal,

I must admit to an almost an allerigic reaction when 'Westerners' are being compared to Asians as having less of a spiritual capacity or something and being put down like that.

I suggest that maybe the resarcher you have mentioned did not know where to look.

 

I lived in Asia for 4 years and met MANY fraudelent practicioners there too.

For example:

I recall just coming to this pilgrimige spot meeting a friend who was there already for some time. We sat on the verandha sipping tea and watching the street.

Then he pointed out a sadhu with long hair dressed in white looking at two females. My friend was saying:'I watched him do this every day now, look he is going to start chatting to them, he is looking for students and there is a chance that theyll fall for him too. So we looked and listend and that is what happened.

The irony is that my friend knew him becouse he(sadhu) has just arrived in that place recently, attended 2 weeks yoga course and become a 'guru'.

 

How about this white guy, fraud? Tummo is his practise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=madoDvtKEes

 

No doubt there are just as many, and probably more, frauds in Asia. It is likely in some Asian countries they never have to deal with things like "testing" and "proof".

 

Herbers Benson, who has been studying this for several decades, had to go to Tibet to find it. He could find no westerners who could actually do it. From what I have read, Tibetan Buddhists and Indian Sihkks were the main groups he found some genuine Yogis in with abilities he could scientifically confirm. He found no westerners with the same abilities.

 

I have heard of Wim Hof. It is no surprise that he has become well known and famous, and holds many world records, if he can do what he says he can do and really do what he demonstrates.

 

I am unclear on exactly what his training is and where he got it. Wiki doesn't say much-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof

 

Of course Westerners are capable of doing anything Asians can do. What makes me "allergic" though, is when so many people, just any old person, claim(s) to do "Tummo". It seems everyone does Tummo these days, and I find that hard to believe.

 

Well, maybe someone somewhere got the real Buddhist lineage and brought it back to the west. And maybe some people have tried to develop their own "tummo" or copy it, or have a basic understanding of it. But do you really have Tummo? I doubt it. They would be famous like Wim Hof.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Immortal4life

[suninmyeyes]

OK I think I get your point.

If you read up on Wim Hof he mentiones tummo in interwievs and some of the videos. Now of course I dont know 100%true or not as I havent met him personally. I can only use my intuition for now.

Maybe some people have developed their own tummo and copy it as you say.

Personally I am not that much into purity of practise and all that as I am into ability to keep warm.

Maybe different people have different agendas in life. One may be to be famous due to tummo and another equally succesfull at practise may not be famous and just live normal life working in the factory or something.

As for yogic abilities being found by that researcher only (if it is predominatntley I could accept it, but not only)among India and Sikh yogis, again I say that he didnt know where to look. Logically there are people like this all around the world ,this is a part of balance(of some sort) on the earth.

Also many people wont show their abillities .As I say different agendas.

[Immortal4life]

Here is some info I found that is supposed to be about Tummo, although the method is not shown-

 

Here is a video demonstrating a Tibetan Yoga method, I want to get this method, though I doubt I am going to find it advertised in my local newspaper....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APttKuYgwUA

[thelerner]

One of the scientists who has conducted the most research on Tummo, is Dr. Herbert Benson. He says that he has never met a westerner who claimed to be able to do Tummo, who wasn't a fraud.

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html

I never gained much expertise but others in the Kap 1 class reported heat and quite a bit of sweating. Ofcourse there's Tummo and there's TUMMO. Feeling heat and having sweat pour out may be a far cry from sitting on a frozen tundra drying sheets that have been frozen stiff.

 

I think tummo, at least the lower level is a Siddhi thats relatively obtainable, more so then the other exotic feats. I also think its benefits go beyond heat, that at heart its a purification ritual. Best done with care.

[Immortal4life]

That's true...

 

There is nothing necessarily or inherently wrong with modifying something for the masses, as long as you don't claim that it's the original real thing just like the monks in Tibet do it.

 

It's the same with anything, there's Tai Chi, and then there's TAI CHI. There's fa jing, and then there's FA JING.

[portcraig]

Here are some links for the tummo workshop in Santa Monica with Wim Hof.

 

http://www.innerfire.nl/workshop-santamonica

 

http://www.potentizinglife.com/

[RiverSnake]

Found this free tummo meditation online. It mimics a lot of what i have read about Tummo in the six yogas of Naropa. Enjoy.

 

http://www.kadampa-center.org/files/InnerHeatMeditation.pdf

[Everything]

My reason is probably very shallow in some peoples eyes , but Ill be honest as I dont really care for coolnes factor.

The reason is becouse I am trying to figure out how to keep warm at low temperatures without fire or five sleeping bags. This would be particulary usefull to adopting living or staying in nature for longer periods when cold.

Any reasons not to undertake this practise?

Are you sure you actually really want to stay in cold temperatures?

 

Wim Hoff teaches people to endure allot of cold. These people enjoy enduring lots of cold.

 

The reason to undertake this practice is if you like cold and you like to be in cold temperature.

 

Infact, if you like cold, you would probably already be a tummo candidate. Its hard to explain the friendship with cold and a persons love for cold. Cold cools the body like drops of water on a toaster. it feels so friendly and soothing. So calm and empty. To a tummo master, cold is like the support for their passion, being their body. The body is like the high precision machine that runs on excitemet and extreme high frequencies, where cold helps the body cool down when the body runs on high frequency. Thus, jumping in ice water, increases the potential of your body instanteneously.

 

If you seek to improve your relationship with the cold, you don't need tummo for that. You can start right now, today, by enjoying a cold shower.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Everything

[Mokona]

Bro! The bliss of inner fire is a great book. Why was it so gruelimg for you? I got bliss and heat even after stripping the practice to bare bones. We really need to chat.

 

Tummo.... Serious, demanding, grueling, dangerous, precarious, etc etc.... but oh so rewarding!

 

If you do decide to dive in, please, please, get personal guidance. Please....

There's no written material out there which can actually take one far enough so that the hazards and pitfalls can be sidestepped. With this in mind, i can (with slight reservations) recommend two reference books which i know will definitely set the stage for gaining a deeper insight and perhaps help to initiate a start to the practice, albeit not enough to empower and direct the reader to the level where only a qualified teacher can do.

 

The 2 books are:

The Bliss of Inner Fire by Lama Thubten Yeshe, and

The Six Yogas of Naropa by Glenn H. Mullin

(both available on amazon)

 

 

Helpful link when you decide to look into finding personal guidance:

http://www.healing.lv/en/232/tummo

 

Please approach with eyes wide open, Sun. Its not a practice to be taken lightly.

 

All the best, and may you proceed with the blessings of all your accumulated merit.

[suninmyeyes]

Are you sure you actually really want to stay in cold temperatures?

 

Wim Hoff teaches people to endure allot of cold. These people enjoy enduring lots of cold.

 

The reason to undertake this practice is if you like cold and you like to be in cold temperature.

 

Infact, if you like cold, you would probably already be a tummo candidate. Its hard to explain the friendship with cold and a persons love for cold. Cold cools the body like drops of water on a toaster. it feels so friendly and soothing. So calm and empty. To a tummo master, cold is like the support for their passion, being their body. The body is like the high precision machine that runs on excitemet and extreme high frequencies, where cold helps the body cool down when the body runs on high frequency. Thus, jumping in ice water, increases the potential of your body instanteneously.

 

If you seek to improve your relationship with the cold, you don't need tummo for that. You can start right now, today, by enjoying a cold shower.

No that I want to stay in cold weather, but I love being outdoors and find it impossible to live outdoors or camp out in nature if it is very cold.

Outdoors life is very much missed during the winter season.

Are you tummoing too Everything?

[Everything]

No that I want to stay in cold weather, but I love being outdoors and find it impossible to live outdoors or camp out in nature if it is very cold.

Outdoors life is very much missed during the winter season.

Are you tummoing too Everything?

No. I was going to, but no. Having no resistance against cold, the allowance of warmth feels much more naturall.

 

The idea of Tummo served me in discovering this. Having no resistance against that which you disprefer, allowing that which you do prefer will feel allot more naturall. You focus on warmth, not cold, letting the cold be for what it is. This makes you sensitive to your inner warmth aswell. So I no longer felt the urge to learn about tummo. Since I don't have the desire to be in nature for long periods of time l, like you.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Everything

[orb]

Does anybody know what exactly is this Wim Hof guy teaching ?

Cause if it's just the sitting in the ice thing - then russians would laugh there ass off at that practice.

 

There are a lot of people in Russia that can swim for longer periods of time in icy water with no "Tummo" claims but just through getting used to it.

 

 

 

[orb]

Here's one more

 

[Aetherous]

As luck would have it, an American kid trained with Wim Hof and published the techniques in this book recently:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-the-Iceman-ebook/dp/B0065LUNT6/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1332039508&sr=1-1

 

I haven't checked it out yet...but from what I saw of it, cold exposure, and a breathing method. I saw that they did padmasana in the snow, in a video of them training together. There's an emphasis on training of the cardiovascular system to high VO2max, according to what Wim said in a video, and he said that's important in developing the ability.

 

Something to check out if you want to do this, but I don't make any promises regarding the quality of instruction in that book. Good thing amazon accepts returns within a certain period for kindle books.

 

This page also has some QandA:

 

http://becomingtheiceman.com/faq

Edited March 18, 2012 by Scotty

[dawei]

Hey Scotty,

 

Nice post and reference to a book... I have often felt that the Tummo needs an accessible book. I hope this maybe can deliver on that.

 

I do know that some can swim in the very cold waters as a part of tradition or practice, without tummo. My ex-wife's father in law was german born and he could do that quite easily. It was an act of will and determination; I would say the mind/heart is 'controlling' their Way. (Heart is the 'supreme commander' in TCM).

 

What Wolf and Tummo can do can be scientifically measured. I saw a documentary on his being brought to a US college to be put in a tub of ice and probes measured his internal temperature... and they predicted his core temperature MUST go down; that he could control certain levels but not the core temperature... To their absolute amazement (research scientist) his core temperature went UP in an ice bath. No swimming; no movement to generate heat.... Sitting in NOTHING but ice... It seems fitting he is called the ICE MAN.

 

A final note... this is a Tibetan method... I hope that someone could share a history of it. I have read a little bit (Magic and Mystery in Tibet by Alexandra David-Neel). Very few books have changed my perspective more than this one...

[Aetherous]

From what I understand the book doesn't contain tummo instructions, exactly.

[orb]

Hey Scotty,

 

Nice post and reference to a book... I have often felt that the Tummo needs an accessible book. I hope this maybe can deliver on that.

 

I do know that some can swim in the very cold waters as a part of tradition or practice, without tummo. My ex-wife's father in law was german born and he could do that quite easily. It was an act of will and determination; I would say the mind/heart is 'controlling' their Way. (Heart is the 'supreme commander' in TCM).

 

What Wolf and Tummo can do can be scientifically measured. I saw a documentary on his being brought to a US college to be put in a tub of ice and probes measured his internal temperature... and they predicted his core temperature MUST go down; that he could control certain levels but not the core temperature... To their absolute amazement (research scientist) his core temperature went UP in an ice bath. No swimming; no movement to generate heat.... Sitting in NOTHING but ice... It seems fitting he is called the ICE MAN.

 

A final note... this is a Tibetan method... I hope that someone could share a history of it. I have read a little bit (Magic and Mystery in Tibet by Alexandra David-Neel). Very few books have changed my perspective more than this one...

 

 

Sitting in ice is a lot easier then sitting in ice cold lake. The core temperature goes naturally up by itself if the body is used to the practice - you don't need movement. All this can be scientifically measured on people that don't do tummo.

It's the same thing guys.

What is cool is that the lady in one of the videos cured her cancer without any tibetan secret, but I guess she is missing the exotic tibetan element and the robes etc

[suninmyeyes]

 

What is cool is that the lady in one of the videos cured her cancer without any tibetan secret, but I guess she is missing the exotic tibetan element and the robes etc

Damn , the video is closed at least here in Europe, would have liked to see it.

The thing with Russians and Eastern Europeans/Balkans we have the tradition of cold bathing for health , it is not uncommon. It is a very old tradition.

Orthodox Christians in some places have a ice cold bath/swim for Easter .

In UK some people (regardless wherther reliogious or not) have tradition to go swimming in the cold sea for Christmas day .

When visiting a friend in Sweden few cold winters ago she invited me for a swim . I thought in a swimming pool , but no it was in the sea(!). They have saunas build by the sea , so they have a quick swim than run to sauna , than swim , back to sauna. It is appereantly very good for health and she has been doing it since kid.

Many people have adopted to cold well and can endure it.

 

 

Scotty wrote:'As luck would have it, an American kid trained with Wim Hof and published the techniques in this book recently:

 

http://www.amazon.co...32039508&sr=1-1'

Since the start of the thread I actuallly bought that book and it is much less interseting than I thought it would be. Basically the training seems to be slowly adopting to cold from what is shared (very sort of common sensical approach), and it is quite autobiographical.

To be honest enjoyed reading the bits but couldnt be bothered to read the whole thing.

Edited March 18, 2012 by suninmyeyes

[suninmyeyes]

 

A final note... this is a Tibetan method... I hope that someone could share a history of it. I have read a little bit (Magic and Mystery in Tibet by Alexandra David-Neel). Very few books have changed my perspective more than this one...

Magic and Mystery in Tibet is the very first spiritual book on Eastern mysticisam I have ever read when 16 years old and it so rocked my world - incredible much. Reccomended.

Plus Alexandras D.- N. s feerlesnes on her journeys still continue to be inspirational .

[dawei]

The core temperature goes naturally up by itself if the body is used to the practice - you don't need movement. All this can be scientifically measured on people that don't do tummo.

That was kind of my point... how little science knows of this and how easily they could measure it if they wanted to... Even after they do so, they show little interest in the end. Finish notes; close book; next study.

[Cloud 9]

I am interested in learning tummo, but I also practice qigong (zhan zhuang) daily for 2-3 hours. Anyone know if there are any negative side effects if I add tummo to my usual qigong practice?

[suninmyeyes]

Dont know about mixing tummo and qigong..

Just to report that by now I have read the 'Becoming the iceman' book and it is OK . More or less someones very autobiographical take on training with Iceman. The main thing seems to be getting used to cold , training your body that way and increasing exposure to cold/freezing which if done with care increases ability to withsthand low temperatures .
It seems to be very organic way of doing it, and to be honest I have not seen him mention tummo at all...

So I was (am) either misunderstood /misinformed when wrote previous post or Iceman does not actually practise /teach tummo. Or maybe he does oractise it himself but doesnt actually teach it.

Edited January 16, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Ocean Form

[C T]

just learning, adapting to and increasing resilience to freezing temperatures is not Tummo.

 

The genuine practice of Tummo involves lengthy preparations whereby clinging (to various notions of self, from the gross to the subtlest levels) must first be addressed and then dissolved -- otherwise, the 'happenings' in the process can have a detrimental effect (for eg "look, i am on fire!!" ) -- an authentic initiate into this practice will have already disbanded the notion of a 'self', as such, will not come to harm.

 

What these preparatory stages are, im afraid, cannot be revealed here. Doing so insults the depth and profundity of it. Such a practice ought to held in the highest regard, and whomsoever has the desire to access the path ought to think seriously about seeking the tutelage of an adept yogi, be they Buddhist or Bon, or bon-again buddhist, just make sure the lineage is there, and they dont ask you to empty your savings to learn it.

 

Dabbling is not advisable. Learning from textbooks is not advisable. Learning it on-line is not advisable. Having a fire extinguisher handy is very advisable.... just messin'