tummo

[Trash Filter]

Hello Alwayson

 

What does the book mean in clear light of bliss, it talks about dissolving the energy and the visons of smoke, and lights eventually to clear light? If our eyes are closed are there supposed to be visions when the energy dissolves in the charkas? When I meditate I often can't even remember what visuals occured.

[RongzomFan]

It may not be that inferior since it was Milarepa's main practice, and the numero uno in Naropa's Doctrine of the Six Yogas.

 

 

 

Sexual yogas were the important part of Milarepa's teaching as evidenced by Rechungpa.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Biographies-Rechungpa-Routledge-Critical-Studiesi/dp/041559622X/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

Edited April 8, 2013 by alwayson

[voidisyinyang]

Just finished a 2 1/2 hour meditation session - got some serious tummo heat going.

 

Do I eat food and ruin it or keep on meditating? haha.

[RongzomFan]

Just finished a 2 1/2 hour meditation session - got some serious tummo heat going.

 

Do I eat food and ruin it or keep on meditating? haha.

 

 

Tummo is not meditation. Meditation is contrived and conceptual from the Vajrayana point of view.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Sexual yogas were the important part of Milarepa's teaching as evidenced by Rechungpa.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Biographies-Rechungpa-Routledge-Critical-Studiesi/dp/041559622X/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

 

Hi Alwaysoff

 

Well, someone disagrees with you..

 

It would be hard to overestimate the great importance of tummo in Tibetan Buddhism. According to Lama Thubten Yeshe, tummo is the ultimate meditation practice.

 

"Even if you could stay in samadhi meditation twenty-four hours a day for twenty days, Milarepa would say to you, “That means nothing! It does not compare to my inner fire meditation.” This is how he responded to Gampopa at their first meeting after Gampopa had described his meditation experience. There must have been a reason for Milarepa to say this. He was not just making propaganda, exaggerating the power of inner fire. He had no partiality and had given up all worldly competition. Milarepa was simply saying that even remaining for many days in a deep, undisturbed samadhi meditation is nothing when compared to inner fire meditation. Inner fire is incomparable."

 

The Lama remarks further that tummo is the most basic and powerful of all Vajrayana methods, for it opens the way to realization in all of the various tantric disciplines:

 

"Inner fire [tummo] is like the main door leading into a complex of hundreds of treasure houses. All the facilities for magnetizing realizations are there. Since it penetrates the very center of the universe of the body, it is incredibly sensitive in producing realizations. In fact, the superstitious, conceptualizing mind cannot count the realizations brought by inner fire. It is the secret key that opens you to all realizations."

 

The great importance of tummo is illustrated, again, by the life of Milarepa. Dudjom Rinpoche reminds us of Milarepa’s first attempts to clear his enormous karmic debt through the practice of dharma. Initially, he sought out a certain dzokchen teacher and requested teachings. The master gave Mila the instructions he requested, but when he tried to practice them, owing to his evil deeds and karmic blockages, he was not able to attain understanding. Only through the path of tummo was Milarepa able to purify these obscurations. As Dudjom Rinpoche summarizes this story:

 

"When the venerable Milarepa first received the Mental Class [or “mind section”] of the Great Perfection from Nup Khalungpa he could not become equipoised in awareness itself, and for the time being the doctrine and the individual seemed to go their own ways. Finally on the basis of the venerable Marpa of Lhodrak’s [teaching of the] inner heat, he attained accomplishment on the path of the Great Perfection, whereby all thoughts, all things are exhausted. This can be demonstrated by one of his own songs of indestructible reality, in which he says:

 

Stabbed in front by the Great Perfection,

Stabbed in the back by the Great Seal [Mahamudra],

I vomit the blood of instruction.

 

Ray, Reginald A. (2012-12-18). Secret of the Vajra World: The Tantric Buddhism of Tibet (Kindle Locations 3693-3708). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

 

And then you say:

 

 

alwayson, on 08 Apr 2013 - 14:23, said

 

Tummo is not meditation. Meditation is contrived and conceptual from the Vajrayana point of view.

 

In general terms, yes, tummo is a form of meditation. And yes, it is contrived and conceptual.

All practices are contrived and conceptual including tummo, Vajrayana generation stage and completion stage, even the preliminary practices of thogal and trecko.

 

The only practice that isn't contrived and not conceptual is the pure practice, the pinnacle of Dzogchen.

 

In contrast to the previous eight yanas, in dzokchen the “view” is not a conceptually held belief of any kind. It is rather the view in the specific sense of the direct experience of the buddha-nature. As Tulku Urgyen explains, “The special quality of Dzogchen is the view that is totally free from any ideas whatsoever. This view is called the view of fruition, meaning it is utterly devoid of any conceptual formulations.”

 

The “view” of dzokchen, then, is the direct, nonconceptual recognition of the ultimate awareness within. This takes place initially through pointing out and then, as we saw, this becomes the “way back” to reconnecting with that basic reality. “So, the first point of Garab Dorje’s is to recognize our own nature and to acknowledge how this nature is, not as our conceptual version of it, but in actuality.”

 

Ray, Reginald A. (2012-12-18). Secret of the Vajra World: The Tantric Buddhism of Tibet (Kindle Locations 4785-4792). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

 

 

By definition, something that is not contrived cannot be created nor controlled by the conceptual mind. If it is a practice, it is contrived. If it is contrived, it is conceptual.

 

So, you can call such and such a nonconceptual practice, and unless it is the pure pinnacle of Dzogchen, it is still a conceptually contrived practice.

 

209. The path "with characteristics" (mtshan hcas) refers to the practice of visualizing the yi dam deity, etc. The path "without characteristics" (mtshan med) refers to the practice of non-conceptual contemplation.

 

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu;Andriano Clemente. The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra Of Dzogchen Semde Kunjed Gyalpo (Kindle Locations 3345-3346). Kindle Edition.

 

 

 

 

 

TI

[RongzomFan]

In general terms, yes, tummo is a form of meditation. And yes, it is contrived and conceptual.

 

Just like the Dalai Lama banned Tsongkhapa?

 

Or that karmamudra is the same as kagyu?

 

You are not even a Buddhist are you?

[Tibetan_Ice]

Just like the Dalai Lama banned Tsongkhapa?

 

Or that karmamudra is the same as kagyu?

 

You are not even a Buddhist are you?

Hi Alwaysoff (or should I say "Central Channel")?

 

The Dalai Lama never banned Tsongkhapa. You misinterpreted. You seem to do that allot.

 

Karmamudra is not the same as kagyu. One is a practice and one is a lineage. They are related, however. Quit making shit up.

 

I do not have to have a label like "buddhist" in order to discuss topics. Unlike you, I do not need a false elitist title to hang on to. I rely on reasoning, knowledge, assessment and evaluation. If you can't stick to the topic without attacking one's qualifications (which is nonsensical anyway because truth is where you find it), that is your problem.

 

At least I don't proclaim myself to be on the same level as the Dalai Lama, nor do I twist the Dalai Lama's actions and represent him as a troll (as you have done in other threads).

At least I don't publicly deny the existence or general history of Jesus, as you have done.

At least I don't push aside Shakyamuni Buddha as irrelevant.

At least I don't put all my belief and acceptance into historical writings, most of which are not even accurate.

 

Tell, me.. why did you create another account on DharmaWheel called "Central Channel"? Did you get too embarassed when they laughed at you and felt that you had to come back in disguise and get even? Not very forthright.

 

Again, I find that whenever I make a point and you attack me personally, I take it to mean that there must be something true in what I said. After all, why would not reply to the topic rather than try to attack me personally and try to discredit my arguments based on "whether or not I am a Buddhist"?

 

Actually, you bore me to death. You have no credibility. I can get the same stale stories and fictitious renditations of 'history' that you post by picking up any dusty history book. Don't you ever listen to the Spiritual masters that say that the past is gone? How will any intellectual understanding (be it partially accurate) help you in your quest for enlightment? Oh, I forgot, you've already declared yourself as someone who 'knows' in another thread. Arrogant wanna be?

 

Don't you work? Don't you have a real job? Do you spend all your time on the forums, attacking the Hindus, aggrevating people, looking down at what others have written when your own understanding and command of the English language and etiquette of proper communication is so lacking? What do you think about when you meditate? All this negative karma that you create is got to hard to burn off, especially for someone who doesn't even understand the mechanics of tummo.

 

I'll give you some advice. People don't judge you by what you say. They judge you by what you do.

 

TI

Edited April 10, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[RongzomFan]

I quit Dharma Wheel in protest over 1 member's promotion of Samael Aun Weor.

 

See my last post:

 

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=6111&start=100#p72298

 

 

You did keep saying that the Dalai Lama banned Tsongkhapa:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/25953-breath-meditation-experience/page-4

 

"HH Dalai Lama is the 14'th Dalai Lama. He imposed the ban. Duh..

The HH Dalai Lama said that at one time he did go with Tsongkhapa's teachings but that since, he changed his mind."

Edited April 10, 2013 by alwayson

[xor]

Wim Hof has said something to the effect that he kept breaking Guinness World Records to draw peoples attention to a more spiritual dimension and this is what he is most into. His basic practices are some type of yoga but he doesn't go into detail about it and doesn't call his practice tummo. In his book he tells about using some kind of sanskrit mantra while withstanding cold in a wind tunnel and remembering past life as a yogi in India.

 

After doing his desert marathon without water he is now trying to convince western medicine into accepting the mind's ability to control the immune system:

 

 

...

 

Here is another iceman who lived in the Soviet Union, Porfiri Ivanov, shown doing using cold water for health and also doing some type of healing:

 

 

Porfiri survived German concentration camp and being put into mental hospital by Soviets due to his "strange lifestyle" of never wearing anything but shorts even in Russian winter. I've read that his basic teachings on health(daily cold showers, fasting) has 10000+ followers in modern Russia.

[voidisyinyang]

http://t.co/ATC6j3Spiq

 

science confirms tummo!

[tumoessence]

You can learn it this summer. I post this since there seems to be an interest in learning opportunities. I am not going.

http://www.yogasofnaropa2013.com/#!about/cbwd

[thelerner]

 

Here is another iceman who lived in the Soviet Union, Porfiri Ivanov, shown doing using cold water for health and also doing some type of healing:

 

 

Porfiri survived German concentration camp and being put into mental hospital by Soviets due to his "strange lifestyle" of never wearing anything but shorts even in Russian winter. I've read that his basic teachings on health(daily cold showers, fasting) has 10000+ followers in modern Russia.

Interesting how in Russia (& most of the world) he's an oddity, one put into a mental hospital at one time, whereas if he was born in India he'd be an 'ordinary' holy man, one of 10's of thousands.

[xor]

Interesting how in Russia (& most of the world) he's an oddity, one put into a mental hospital at one time, whereas if he was born in India he'd be an 'ordinary' holy man, one of 10's of thousands.

That was a standard way to deal with people who were considered obstacles to the progress of "scientific materialism" in the Soviet Union. They put them in a mental hospital, usually most of them were diagnosed as "sluggishly progressing schizophreniacs". One possible criteria for this disorder would put most of us here in an institution, that is the practice of meditation.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Guest