Was Jesus A Taoist?

[Prince...]

 

3. The Lost History of Christianity--The Thousand Year Golden Age of the Church in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia---And How It Died by Philip Jenkins

 

 

Sweet, I was just about to ask if you've read this...I am reading this book right now. I'll have to check out the Jesus Sutras this summer. I have a few books I really need to knock out this month to prepare to give my first sermon in June.

 

What I liked about the Jenkins' book is he mentions more than once that missionaries in the Church of the East were scholars who meditated and performed miracles, which is why they were successful at spreading Christianity, for a time. It makes you wonder what the Catholic Church was doing different.

[DaoChild]

First off, there is no proof that Jesus ever existed.

 

Not quite sure where you got this one...

[Deepbluesea]

Not only would Jesus not want to see a cross, he would probably be pretty pissed that a) people were worshipping him b)his words had been so misused and warped and c) wars have been and continue to be fought in his name.

 

I saw a bumper sticker not too long ago: "I don't have a problem with God, its his fan club I can't stand"

[Bum Grasshopper]

My parents raised me a catholic and sent me to catholic school. As a child I had complete faith in the religion. I went to church, prayed, and confessed my sins to a priest. It did nothing for me.

 

After I quit putting faith in the system and started thinking and doing things my way, things improved. I felt more spiritually connected in a forest rather than a church. I did not believe that Jesus performed miracles or even existed.

 

After studying Taoism, I now see Jesus as a great sage that had healing and manifestation powers. He ultimately became immortal, and later ascended when it was his time. A feat that has been said accomplished by many Taoist masters.

 

If Jesus never existed and was not such an extraordinary sage, I doubt that his following would have survived for so long and be so powerful. It was mankind that bastardized his work and turned it into what it is today.

 

Christianity says Jesus was the son of God. Taoism says we are all children of God. And we all have the power to love, heal, and even become immortal.

[super80]

My parents raised me a catholic and sent me to catholic school. As a child I had complete faith in the religion. I went to church, prayed, and confessed my sins to a priest. It did nothing for me.

 

After I quit putting faith in the system and started thinking and doing things my way, things improved. I felt more spiritually connected in a forest rather than a church. I did not believe that Jesus performed miracles or even existed.

 

After studying Taoism, I now see Jesus as a great sage that had healing and manifestation powers. He ultimately became immortal, and later ascended when it was his time. A feat that has been said accomplished by many Taoist masters.

 

If Jesus never existed and was not such an extraordinary sage, I doubt that his following would have survived for so long and be so powerful. It was mankind that bastardized his work and turned it into what it is today.

 

Christianity says Jesus was the son of God. Taoism says we are all children of God. And we all have the power to love, heal, and even become immortal.

 

 

I too was raised catholic and studied Catholicism in a private school for 12 years. My experiences are very similar if not identical to yours. I agree with you 100%.

[gossamer]

Dear Bum Grasshopper,

 

There is a Syriac (a dialect of Aramaic) New Testament called 'The Peshitta' (or 'P'shitta').

 

It's much clearer then the Greek (or Latin, for that matter) versions of the New Testament.

 

But that said, I think that ALL versions, especially the Greek versions, of the New Testament have places where things were "moved around", edited, and even added to, at a later date (then the originals).

 

I think that the Gospels came to us ORIGINALLY as 'as ORAL STORIES'.

 

The problems began when the "organized church(es)" got involved.

 

As I said yesterday, I also think that the Gentiles lost all of their 'Roots' within Judaism, THAT'S when the disaster really began.

 

I think that the Holy Spirit is Restoring the Jewish Roots, even within Christian Churches.

 

But this is a S-L-O-W process that's meeting great resistance, within "Organized" Christianity.

 

All of that said, I'm a Christian Friend (Quaker) and if the Quaker movement had not pretty much died off (except for a small band in Southeastern Ohio, and maybe 200 more Christian Friends scattered around the USA and Britian.....who are connected to the Friends in S.E. Ohio), it was in my estimate, pretty near how the original Jewish Believers worshipped and lived.

 

I believe that Yeshua (Jesus) is the Messiah, just as he said that he was (and proved he was, in my opinion).

 

But I've studied the New Testament, especially the Syriac version in the last few years, and I see real problems with later "editors".

 

I've also studied the Tao Te Ching for YEARS, and I percieve that the original text was pretty much kept intact.

 

This is apparent with the Silk Dao de Jing, and the later Bamboo strip Dao de Jing.......our modern versions of the Tao te Ching are VERY NEAR to these very early versions of the DDJ.

 

I find it literally tragic that I cannot say the same thing for our modern New Testament.

 

Peace, gossamer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My parents raised me a catholic and sent me to catholic school. As a child I had complete faith in the religion. I went to church, prayed, and confessed my sins to a priest. It did nothing for me.

 

After I quit putting faith in the system and started thinking and doing things my way, things improved. I felt more spiritually connected in a forest rather than a church. I did not believe that Jesus performed miracles or even existed.

 

After studying Taoism, I now see Jesus as a great sage that had healing and manifestation powers. He ultimately became immortal, and later ascended when it was his time. A feat that has been said accomplished by many Taoist masters.

 

If Jesus never existed and was not such an extraordinary sage, I doubt that his following would have survived for so long and be so powerful. It was mankind that bastardized his work and turned it into what it is today.

 

Christianity says Jesus was the son of God. Taoism says we are all children of God. And we all have the power to love, heal, and even become immortal.

Edited April 11, 2009 by gossamer

[Bum Grasshopper]

 

I think that the Gospels came to us ORIGINALLY as 'as ORAL STORIES'.

 

The problems began when the "organized church(es)" got involved.

 

 

 

Agreed.The church is a powerful political organization. It's generals will protect it if it means war.

[Fontana]

But what about love? And what about being the Son of Man, and the Son of God?

[cloud recluse]

Wow, you really resurrected a long buried post. I'm not sure if most of the people on page 1 are around anymore.

 

 

 

Not necessarily

[Prince...]

 

Christianity says Jesus was the son of God. Taoism says we are all children of God. And we all have the power to love, heal, and even become immortal.

 

Christianity says Jesus is the begotten son of God. Christianity says we are all children of God. This is the subject of a sermon that I am giving in June.

 

Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons [and daughters ] of God."

[gossamer]

Yes, I'm in complete agreement that Yeshua (Jesus) is both the Son of God, and was the Son of Man when He walked here upon the earth.

 

In fact, He might also STILL be the Son of Man, because I believe that he (still) has a body, different then ours, but yet He's still embodied with a physical body.

 

Some food for thought.

 

And for THIS day: "He is Risen!"

 

Shlama (Peace, Wholeness---in Aramaic) gossamer

 

 

 

 

Christianity says Jesus is the begotten son of God. Christianity says we are all children of God. This is the subject of a sermon that I am giving in June.

 

Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons [and daughters ] of God."

Edited April 12, 2009 by gossamer

[sasblamthanb]

[fiveelementtao]

I was a Christian Minister for a short while before formally leaving the Church. I left because I didn't see formal christianity following the teachings of Jesus...

There is some pretty good evidence that the man Jesus spent many years in the Indian subcontinent and that he trained in Hindu or buddhist tantric yoga (not the sexual kind). His manifesto of "the kingdom of God is within you" sounds very Indian/Buddhist to me. The tibetans have a sacred scripture that they claim is about the life of Jesus.

 

Many hindus believe that jesus is simply another incarnation of Vishnu. And in terms of "the son of God and Saviour of the world, dying for sins etc..." it follows the hindu idea of Vishnu.

So, my Vote is that the man Jesus was a Jew who converted to Hinduism or buddhism...

Edited April 18, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[Wayfarer64]

Not necessarily

 

Hey there Cloud Recluse - It has been a while HUH!?

 

I was a Christian Minister for a short while before formally leaving the Church. I left because I didn't see formal christianity following the teachings of Jesus...

There is some pretty good evidence that the man Jesus spent many years in the Indian subcontinent and that he trained in Hindu or buddhist tantric yoga (not the sexual kind). His manifesto of "the kingdom of God is within you" sounds very Indian/Buddhist to me. The tibetans have a sacred scripture that they claim is about the life of Jesus.

 

Many hindus believe that jesus is simply another incarnation of Vishnu. And in terms of "the son of God and Saviour of the world, dying for sins etc..." it follows the hindu idea of Vishnu.

So, my Vote is that the man Jesus was a Jew who converted to Hinduism or buddhism...

 

 

I have heard that it was Krishna that Jesus was the incarnation of... these combo-myths are just piling up!

 

Still...

I'll stand by my earlier ideas... that being a lad living along the silk route JC was exposed to many ideas and isms from both east & west...That the multi-goded Romans get no street cred is notable... they had some real clout back then! But, Zoaroastrians weren't any slouches, nor the Mythradites, neither are mentioned here...ALL of those dieties had strong followers in their day. It was just a fluke that Constantine chose Christ as the guy to rebuild his Empire around rather than any other small-time sect of that day...

 

Or was it just meant to be? so we could hold forth here and now?

[fiveelementtao]

I have heard that it was Krishna that Jesus was the incarnation of... these combo-myths are just piling up!

 

Krishna is an incarnation of Vishnu. Vishnu is the 2nd in the Hindu trinity. Brahma Vishnu and Shiva. Vishnu is the preservation principle of the hindu supreme deity. So, Yes, (according to some hindus) Jesus and Krishna would be the same principle incarnated in human form. The Christian trinity of Father Son Holy Spirit has similarites to Hindu trinity.

 

according to hindu theology, Vishnu incarnates whenever humans lose their way in order to remind them of their true nature.

Vishnu has 10 major incarnations Rama and Krishna are the most well known. Buddha and Jesus are also thought by some hindus to be incarnations of Vishnu.

[Zensunni Wanderer]

I'm not against syncretism in the sense of finding common threads, but I try to avoid discussions that boil down to "everyone teaches and believes the same thing", which I think is not only facile but disrespectful to the sages in question. When someone makes a definite statement that X is true, we disregard them by trying to insist that they meant Y. Leaving aside that messages are contextual, I think it's something of an anachronism to call Jesus (or the historical Buddha, or anyone) a "Daoist" reflexively. If we're looking for patterns that seem to mirror those of Daoist sages, the Greek and Roman Stoics like Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius seem closer to me than the Jesus we see in the New Testament anyway. If we disregard all the Paulian Christian nonsense about literal ressurection and miracles, or the detestable idea of a god that allows vicarious punishment, then the recorded discourses of Jesus certainly contain some wisdom. And we see glimpses of contemplative wisdom throughout church history, such as among the desert fathers, Meister Eckhart, etc. But I can't just go with Jesus=Daoist without something a little more convincing.

[Prince...]

I'm not against syncretism in the sense of finding common threads, but I try to avoid discussions that boil down to "everyone teaches and believes the same thing", which I think is not only facile but disrespectful to the sages in question.

 

Thank you. As a Christian, I really find some of the opinions on these types of threads "Jesus was X or Jesus was teaching Y" to be really disrespectful. If I started topics "Buddha or Lao Tzu was a Muslim," I think half the posters here would shit bricks.

 

If we disregard all the Paulian Christian nonsense about literal ressurection and miracles, or the detestable idea of a god that allows vicarious punishment, then the recorded discourses of Jesus certainly contain some wisdom.

 

Going to have to disagree with you. When I was younger, I was on the anti-Paul bandwagon. Now I am a bit older and I still really don't understand Paul's writings, but I've realized that a lot of the "Paulian Christian nonsense" probably came from wanna-be theologians who didn't either.

 

I was going to comment on the "nonsense about literal resurrection and miracles," but I won't. All I will say is that Paul accepted beheading. Either he was a raving lunatic, or maybe, just maybe he was telling the truth. As for the rest of the companion-disciples...they were all martyrs with the exception of John, who survived being boiled alive and was exiled.

[Zensunni Wanderer]

Prince

 

I wouldn't consider myself anti-Paul so much as not a big fan of the effect I see him as having had on Christianity. Eisenmann's "James, Brother Of Jesus" did a really good job of detailing some of his early effect, as does some of Crossan's work though Crossan has a pretty obvious agenda. The way Paul basically says 'Love is necessary but not sufficient' is interesting, but most of his writings don't do much for me.

 

Maybe you take more away from Paul than I do, and that's cool, but I don't think martyrdom can be used as the test of a philosophy's veracity. People from many religions have died rather than renounce their beliefs. The early Muslim community, while it was being persecuted by the Meccan pagans, underwent a period of persecution, death, and exile, but I doubt you'd suggest that the Qu'ran is more likely to be true because of this. Buddhist monks died rather than convert to Islam when Islamic invaders reached the subcontinent two generations later, but this does not lend any special respectability to Buddhism.

 

Peace.

[Maddie]

It like "resurrecting" old posts about Jesus

 

I think one thing that can not be denied is that not matter what you think about Jesus, he has had a major impact on world history.

Edited December 30, 2020 by dmattwads

[Limahong]

On 10/6/2006 at 10:13 AM, sean said:

Just to clarify the post title, I didn't intend it to mean was Jesus literally a Taoist, although that is an interesting thought, I more meant to ask, was Jesus' teachings more resonant with the philosophy of Taoism as we understand it today then with the religion called Christianity built out of his teachings?

 

 

 

 

[Maddie]

So every now and then I feel the urge to do the Catholic rosary and to my surprise it seems to be effective. Does anyone else have experience with this?

[Limahong]

14 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

So every now and then I feel the urge to do the Catholic rosary and to my surprise it seems to be effective.

 

Hi dmattwads,

 

Seems to be effective?

In relation to what?

 

- Anand

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Limahong
Enhancement

[Maddie]

Just now, Limahong said:

 

Hi dmattwads,

 

Seems effective?

In relation to what?

 

- Anand

 

 

 

 

 

peace of mind at the moment. In the past in helping me solve more worldly problems.

[Limahong]

2 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

peace of mind at the moment. In the past in helping me solve more worldly problems.

 

Peace vs pieces <=>  'at the moment' vs 'in the past'?

 

 

 

 

 

[manitou]

I like resurrecting old Jesus threads too. (the forum, not the clothes)

 

I think Jesus may have been working wu-wei on the whole crucifixion thing.  If it is as it is written, Jesus went up to the Garden of Gethsamane and had a word with his higher self, and when he Saw the path before him, he allowed it as opposed to running from it. 

 

At the time Jesus walked the earth, the Silk Road was hugely impactful everyone.  Different philosophies became exposed to each other for the first time.  To me, in looking at the Nazarene with a long lens, transcending the lore, there is an Eastern master there.  There is much conjecture that he went to India during his teens or early twenties.  There is a grave located in Kashmir (I think), which is guarded by a local - to guard this grave which that whole area believes is St. Issa, or Jesus.

 

I'd love to write more about this but my dog is whining and wants dinner.  If anybody wants to play, I'm in!