where do science and religions meet?

[mewtwo]

is there a meeting ground for them? like could a scientific person believe in god and vis versa?

[Birch]

Steve has a good answer to this one:-) Paradigm separation.

My take is that science and religion meet where neither of them want to get into explaining why too much;-)

 

However, lots of science going into the study of mind/body practices but avoiding the "spiritual" as IMO that would hint at things about reality that we can't put back into the box either.

So until the pradigms converge, my take is it's up to practioners to find out themselves (which is where things converge anyway, at the practitioner:-))

 

My 2cts

[Marblehead]

Where do ther meet? Generally at the dark end of the street.

 

I apologize. But that's what came to mind.

 

That's the name of a song too: Dark End Of The Street.

 

But in truth, I see no conflict between religion and science. The thing is, most religions have myths that do not really exist in reality. And nearly all believers in religions hold the myths to be a part of the true reality.

 

There are reasons why people study the sciences. The are reasons why people hold to religions. But to deny one in favor of the other is, in my opinion, is counter-productive.

 

And I see no reason why a scientist cannot honestly practice his/her profession and still be a religious person as long as their religion is not used to negate the facts of science.

[doc benway]

is there a meeting ground for them? like could a scientific person believe in god and vis versa?

I think they meet in us, in the individual.

Each of us needs to find what makes sense to us and how to reconcile both in our minds and lives. It seems to me that the deeper understanding I have of each, the more similar they look...

[Sloppy Zhang]

Right at the top.

 

If science is about finding out what the world/universe is like (through experience and observation), and religion is a system explaining how the world/universe is (without necessarily experiencing/observing it, through depending on how spiritual/mystical the root is, there may be plenty of that as well), then, really, at the very end they should be observing and explaining the same thing.

 

Now the limitations of both need to be clearly understood. Science is about demonstrable, verifiable, repeatable, and to some extent, controllable phenomena. For instance, there are things called "rogue waves" which are huge waves that occur in the ocean, and from the very old days ships have been destroyed by them. Now, nobody believed in these tales of these waves, because the only people who had seen them were survivors of these destructive waves. It wasn't until we had means of recording them to present to others, and means of tracking them, that they became "scientifically verified"- so something can be real, but not be "scientific". In many things, we must wait for the technology to catch up to a point where we can realistically work with something.

 

Now in terms of religion/spirituality/faith, it's tricky because you've got to have the "right view", as it were. Do you believe something because you genuinely feel it to be right, or do you believe it because you WANT it to be right, because you'd be sad if it was found out to not be the case?

 

Religious/spiritual people who are strong in their faith or their convictions in their own experience have nothing to fear from science. If their faith accurately reflects reality, then science will validate those principles. People who fear scientific discoveries, I think, are the people who have invested much in a structure that, realistically, they know to be fragile and false, and they are desperate to maintain their facade for as long as possible.

[manitou]

This may not be accurate, but I did read somewhere that Einstein once said something like "Create an image of a higher power for yourself, and make sure it's friendly". Science takes measurements. Measurements of what? The Oneness of life. The Order.

 

I think Einstein was on to something here, if he truly said this. We have the choice of how we wish to view the Order of Things. Christianity seems to be very guilt based, punishment based, burning in fire and brimstone based. This is their choice. That mindset appeals to people (once they're old enough to decide for themselves) that that is the correct way of viewing things. Only through the Jesus club (and resultant December birthday celebration) can you be saved from the fire and brimstone. But I see this as a result of residual guilt they do keep within themselves - probably because they didn't question what mom and dad told them. How much crap comes down the line because people never waver from the baloney that was handed to them as children?

 

Obviously there is a cohesive principle at work here, an Order of sorts. We just have thousands of different ways of looking at it, measuring it, naming it.

 

The concept of worshiping a god really gets my goat. If love is truly the glue that holds it all together, why in the hell would a 'god' require that people bow down to him? Is his ego that fragile? the only good I can see coming out of that is the tendency to diminish one's own ego because all credit goes to "God". This is a surface way of developing humility, if you ask me. I don't think that develops humility at all. I think that develops arrogance toward others who don't believe the same way.

 

There comes a point where Belief is superfluous. It graduates to Knowing when the inner self has been integrated by inner work.

[ChiDragon]

But in truth, I see no conflict between religion and science. The thing is, most religions have myths that do not really exist in reality. And nearly all believers in religions hold the myths to be a part of the true reality.

 

There are reasons why people study the sciences. The are reasons why people hold to religions. But to deny one in favor of the other is, in my opinion, is counter-productive.

 

And I see no reason why a scientist cannot honestly practice his/her profession and still be a religious person as long as their religion is not used to negate the facts of science.

 

Did I see a suggestion, here, is to have an open mind....???

[Marblehead]

Did I see a suggestion, here, is to have an open mind....???

 

Naw. I would never make a suggestion like that. Afterall, my name is Marblehead. Hehehe.

[Everything]

is there a meeting ground for them? like could a scientific person believe in god and vis versa?

There might be now, not sure where. I'm sure in the future the lines between science and wisdom of ancients will blurr. The holy books are here to stay for a long time. Simply because the language in which it was written is subject to interpretation. Thus, as we develop science, we can create more accurate interpretations of the holy texts. There are already many subtle students and teachers of interpreting the scientific wisdom from ancient texts. Deep philosophy of wisdom of ancients can be very much applied to modern science.

 

Don't forget that most of the worlds greatest minds have always witheld from sharing their sources of wisdom. Do you really think Einstein was playing with numbers alone as be created the relativity theory? The eager mind will recognize the source of their discoveries or creations anyway. There is no need to put their subtle wisdom into words. It would only be misunderstood. Its better to hint at it, let people discover for themselves as the scientist or artist him/her-self has discovered.

[mYTHmAKER]

"One man's science is another man's religion" quote by don't remember

[Apech]

Religious leaders get to wear colourful frocks and strange hats while scientists just have white coats. If they meet we all know who will look the more interesting. No competition really.

[thelerner]

At a Yeshiva I was told,

Science tells us what things are,

Religion informs us how to use them.

[RiverSnake]

I made a post about Spirituality as a subjective science about a week ago. Check it out, some of the videos may interest you.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/20747-spirituality-a-science/

[Marblehead]

At a Yeshiva I was told,

Science tells us what things are,

Religion informs us how to use them.

 

I so much wish the word "spirituality" instead of "religion" would have been used.

[Pietro]

is there a meeting ground for them? like could a scientific person believe in god and vis versa?

 

 

 

Science studies what can be measured.

Religion guesses on the rest.

[Marblehead]

Science studies what can be measured.

Religion guesses on the rest.

 

I'm glad it was you and not I who said that. I already get into enough trouble as it is. Hehehe.

[manitou]

I so much wish the word "spirituality" instead of "religion" would have been used.

 

 

Complete agreement here. Religion by its very nature is too restricting.

[ChiDragon]

I so much wish the word "spirituality" instead of "religion" would have been used.

 

In that case, is Chi Kung a spirituality or how would someone categorize it...??? Is there a way that we can relate it to science in parallel with the spiritual aspect....???

[Everything]

Science studies what can be measured.

Religion guesses on the rest.

Guess I never agreed with religions either. The wisdom comes not from the books but from wise people who can interpret the books.

 

I think ancient wisdom is simply a way of perserving what has already been measured in the past by other people. Religion is simply a wrong way of interpreting it. A fixed point of perspective that is not likely to change... Which is unfortunate, because change should be the only constant in the developement of wisdom.

 

I think in the future, when science and ancient wisdom will meet, we will call it magic-science.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Everything

[manitou]

In that case, is Chi Kung a spirituality or how would someone categorize it...??? Is there a way that we can relate it to science in parallel with the spiritual aspect....???

 

Yes, I think there is. Spirituality is the innate intuitive knowledge that there is an Order out there that we can tap into. Many different individual ways of trying to do this. Science is the other side of the same thing - they're just trying to measure and predict it.

[ChiDragon]

manitou....

 

Thank you for given me this loophole. Now, during my practice of Chi Kung, I can raise my hands to Heaven. Spiritually, I can think that I am absorbing the Chi from Heaven with my palms; while my feet are capturing the Chi from Earth. Scientifically, I can think of that I am breathing the oxygen from the air with my nose. Internally, the ATP are generated and given me the energy for metabolism and body strength....

[Protector]

I can't wait for aliens to land on Earth and start talking about Jesus