Spiritual Bypassing

[Ulises]

[Bubbles]

When split off from fundamental psychological needs, such actions often do much more harm than good.

 

Thank you for bringing up this topic.

 

Most of the traditional paths are aimed at people who have their psychological needs fulfilled. This should be done when one lives in a well structured society where some kind of Dharma is respected so that babies, child are raised up in such a way that they really feel they are loved (I am not talking about emotional feelings of attachments that adults project on them),and that they can see that rules are the expressions of ontological laws.

 

When we look at the yoga paths (hindu, buddhist, christian) we can see that preliminaries are often set up before one is admitted into the deeper practices. Morality is required because only someone who has his fundamental needs satisfied can really be moral. This is a safeguard to avoid people with imbalances aggravating them more by undertaking practices that requires a strong grounding. Earth is the balancing element.

 

In our degenerated and decomposing societies where Love and Dharma as a collective law is ignored, we are making babies and raising children who will very soon become hungry ghosts because we can't satisfy their needs since we are ourselves hungry ghosts. Our children will be bound to steal (physically, psychically) what they think they need, they will kill ( really or by not respecting others) when they think someone represent an obstacle to satisfy their need. They will speak ill or lie when they will feel threatened by someone or a situation from which they think they should be protected. They will abuse people because they think they will find more completeness by changing partners.

 

I feel that traditional paths have their consistency and their logic. New agers or neo advantins heavily disdain the traditional ways and their morals. But what you have posted Ulises is so true -at least to me.

 

We can't jump from abnormal (our petty and selfish way) to supranormal (The Way). We have to first go back to normal (becoming a reliable human being). Before real spiritual work, there is psychological work otherwise, spirituality will only be a mean to avoid our real and massive shortcomings and to miss the opportunity to meet our earthy lives.

When one has followed all the required and logic stages, reaching the Heavens does integrate well with our earthy lives. In this regard I like the wisdom of the ten how-herding pictures.

 

 

 

My two cents don't worth a lot, but they are the real money of my mind. No one is forced to take them.

Edited October 4, 2011 by bubbles

[Birch]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I do have a bit more faith in the young however. What i see are the hippy trailblazers who brought many of these practices back to cultures not articulated to deal with them. That could be a good thing because it could rip the culture apart and show us what's not working very fast. On the other hand if we're ill-equipped to deal with spiritual casualties due to our culture, i think that might need to be fixed first. Stop throwing people who report unusual experiences or perceptions of the world into psych-wards:-)

[dwai]

Thank you for bringing up this topic.

 

When we look at the yoga paths (hindu, buddhist, christian) we can see that preliminaries are often set up before one is admitted into the deeper practices. Morality is required because only someone who has his fundamental needs satisfied can really be moral. This is a safeguard to avoid people with imbalances aggravating them more by undertaking practices that requires a strong grounding. Earth is the balancing element.

 

I dont have an objection to what you are saying in general, bu please dont refer to a "christian" yoga ...there is no such thing!

[Bubbles]

I dont have an objection to what you are saying in general, bu please dont refer to a "christian" yoga ...there is no such thing!

 

I see what you mean. I wrote what came up in my mind and since 'yoga' can be understood as 'union', I thought that it could fit well to describe the christian mystic path : union with the Divine/Godhead. Does it make it more acceptable for you in this way?

[d'avid]

Of course there is a christian yoga. As such I would define various western mystery traditions.

 

They are not as widely known as eastern ways as they are often protected by secrecy.

 

I dare to say that the western methods are often more adjusted to the constitution of the western mind and body, so that the problem of spiritual bypassing is of a different kind with eastern than with western tradition. One thing that I observed more than once with buddhism-orientated westerners is a repudiative attitude towards their emotions and desires that are qualified as disturbing.

 

It's just the methods that are different, in respect of the different starting points, the different imprints and circumstances of the personality of the aspirant - the truth is finally the same.

 

 

Sane occultism by Dion Fortune is a read I can recommend. It can be found in the internet for free.

 

 

 

 

However, I don't believe a real path of whatever way to liberation is possible without going through crisis in which the definition of "fundamental psychological needs" is put in question.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2011 by d'avid

[Birch]

Yes, crisis! No to arresting said crisis for...well, why exactly?

Oh yeah, forgot, we have a pill/procedure for pretty much every aspect of life:-)

I should add there do seem to be a lot of switched-on folks who have experience with and can support difficult awakenings. I still count TTB's as a place worth stopping by on path:-)

[Sahaj Nath]

this looks like a great book! a know a lot of folks who have difficulty wading through Chogyam Trungpa's material. this might be a great alternative that conveys some very important core lessons.

 

i really wish this had been posted in the GENERAL DISCUSSION area instead of the TAOIST area. i almost never read this board, and the book's not even about Taoism.

 

glad i found it, though.

[Rainy_Day]

I myself have definitely been guilty of "spiritual bypassing" in the past.

 

Some commentators above suggest that spiritual bypassing might be less common in traditional societies. I'm not sure I completely agree with this. I guess the real question is how do you know if you're doing a "spiritual bypass". In traditional Chinese society, critics of Buddhism and Daoism often portray spiritual practitioners as trying to escape the world due to a lack of bravery in facing life. In rebuttal, Buddhists and Daoists would say that they have simply realised the meaninglessness of mundane goals.

 

I guess the only real safeguard is to find a realised teacher. But then the question becomes how to find such a person.

[Gerard]

In rebuttal, Buddhists and Daoists would say that they have simply realised the meaninglessness of mundane goals.

 

Yes that's is true but you also merge with the common folk: chop wood, carry water. You "create/manipulate" your own reality within the existing reality.

[Jetsun]

I too have been guilty of spiritual bypassing and I think this is a very important topic. My feelings are that many of the Eastern spiritual teachings are not very appropriate for a lot of Westerners because we have imbalances and wounds from our society which need healing and many of the Eastern teachings do not take these problems into account. Osho said that the main blockages Westerners have are due to our Christian heritage so many of us are blocked and filled with guilt and shame around sexuality and our anger/power, so teachings like some of those in Buddhism which go on about how anger will give you a lifetime of negative karma and people like Nargajuna talk about how you should meditate on the impurity of women and the disgust of the human body are not helpful at all for most of us, they may infact just be reinforcing our sickness and repressing our problems further.

 

I also don't think many of us need mind meditation and mind training at the moment, as a society we are already top heavy and mind obsessed, head intelligence is regarded as much more important than emotional intelligence and nearly all of our education as children is in how to train the mind and as a result we get cut off and dissociated from our bodies, so I generally think that many of us need to get down into the body and feel the wounds and emotions that are there and not sit for hours stuck in the mind avoiding them.

[Mokona]

I too have been guilty of spiritual bypassing and I think this is a very important topic. My feelings are that many of the Eastern spiritual teachings are not very appropriate for a lot of Westerners because we have imbalances and wounds from our society which need healing and many of the Eastern teachings do not take these problems into account. Osho said that the main blockages Westerners have are due to our Christian heritage so many of us are blocked and filled with guilt and shame around sexuality and our anger/power, so teachings like some of those in Buddhism which go on about how anger will give you a lifetime of negative karma and people like Nargajuna talk about how you should meditate on the impurity of women and the disgust of the human body are not helpful at all for most of us, they may infact just be reinforcing our sickness and repressing our problems further.

 

I also don't think many of us need mind meditation and mind training at the moment, as a society we are already top heavy and mind obsessed, head intelligence is regarded as much more important than emotional intelligence and nearly all of our education as children is in how to train the mind and as a result we get cut off and dissociated from our bodies, so I generally think that many of us need to get down into the body and feel the wounds and emotions that are there and not sit for hours stuck in the mind avoiding them.

Sure, but you want to also provide methods to fix that. Funnily enough, my last chi kung class came with several self help methods and links to relevant material online to helpheal emotions and issues since the chi kung brings them up. Sum peeple tink a-head. Lol.

 

So I totally agree with you. I have a range of issues that im transmutting myself.

[Rainy_Day]

Yes that's is true but you also merge with the common folk: chop wood, carry water. You "create/manipulate" your own reality within the existing reality.

 

That's, of course, the ideal. (More accurately, one amongst several ideals, because there are also teachings where you simply leave the world to become a hermit.)

 

If you read traditional Chinese novels (such as The Dream of the Red Mansion), then you'll definitely find people who did not live up to the ideal.

 

The primary Neo-Confucian attack on Buddhism was that Buddhist monks did not marry and have children. This was a big no-no in Chinese culture - You're defaulting on your obligation to your ancestors if you don't have kids. I guess this point is no longer relevant in today's world, since so many people don't have kids due to lifestyle choices anyway - Buddhist householders might actually be more traditional and have more kids than the average Chinese household. (A while ago, however, a famous genius math student left his study to join a monastery. A heated debate ensued in the Chinese net.)

 

......

 

As for the Eastern/Western issue which some other commentators have mentioned, my personal view is that it really doesn't matter. Just pick a path and stick with it, meanwhile being respectful of other paths as much as possible. The fact is that Eastern teachings are actually more accessible to a lot of Westerners now than "Western teachings". (Without going into the fact that a lot of "Western teachings", e.g. Golden Dawn, Wicca, are actually reconstructed or even invented traditions. Since all traditions ultimately come from somewhere and have to be "invented", I don't mean any less respect to invented traditions. However, the issue of Eastern vs. Western is a false dilemma in my view - Daoism absorbed a lot from Manichaeism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Christianity, too. The way I see it, the way traditions converge and diverge is simply messy. It's never an easy task to categorise something as Chinese, Western, Indian, or otherwise.)

[Rainy_Day]

Actually, a thought just came to me. Maybe the distinction here is:

 

(1) If in pursuing your spiritual path, you feel like hero looking up a mountain he's about to climb, feeling excited, confident and fearless about the prospect, then you're doing something you actually want to do.

(2) If in reading spiritual books and doing spiritual practices, you feel like you're trying to shelter yourself from the hurt and pain of the world, then you're doing a spiritual bypass.

 

What do people here think about this analysis?

[johndoe2012]

Sure, but you want to also provide methods to fix that. Funnily enough, my last chi kung class came with several self help methods and links to relevant material online to helpheal emotions and issues since the chi kung brings them up. Sum peeple tink a-head. Lol.

 

Can you provide some links to this material?

 

Thanks.

[johndoe2012]

...

(2) If in reading spiritual books and doing spiritual practices, you feel like you're trying to shelter yourself from the hurt and pain of the world, then you're doing a spiritual bypass.

 

I would add a number 3

 

(3) If you in your current practise encounter obstacles that are not removable by spiritual means, maybe you need to look at psychological tools to heal your wounds before you push ahead.

[johndoe2012]

Any ideas on tools to avoid doing a spiritual bypass?

 

I would add

 

* Subpersonality identification and integration

* Shadow work / Hermetics soul mirror

* 12 steps program maybe?

* EFT

 

Any psychospiritual work.

 

Though I found subpersonality work to be non-fruitful; I never found out how to integrate all the various personalities. This is too easily ignored in the literature that I found (Rowan etc.).

 

Found some interesting books

 

http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Dance-Liberating-Power-Creativity/dp/1570624445/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1326286631&sr=8-14

 

http://www.amazon.com/Meeting-Shadow-New-Consciousness-Reader/dp/087477618X/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326286770&sr=1-9

[Chen]

I dont have an objection to what you are saying in general, bu please dont refer to a "christian" yoga ...there is no such thing!

With all the respect Dwai,there is such a "yoga",for information only and not for debate,there is a place in Northen Greece,call it Agion Oros,(Holly Mountain), that there is a sect of Hermits that practicing the "Noera Proseyhi".Although Agion Oros in the Majoritty is populated with monks that doing the usual stuff for monks, like praying having a merchedes car ,and bodyguards,involving in scandals and political corruption there are between them some enlightened monks that with their "yogi syle" breathing technic are trying to become one with God,whatever is the meaning of this.

The only difference is that as fanatic Orhodox Christians,they believe that the enlightenment is coming only with the grace of God and the other practices are coming from the Satan.

As I don't want to abuse this thread if you want any other information send a pm.

 

Friendly

 

Chen

[Birch]

Actually, a thought just came to me. Maybe the distinction here is:

 

(1) If in pursuing your spiritual path, you feel like hero looking up a mountain he's about to climb, feeling excited, confident and fearless about the prospect, then you're doing something you actually want to do.

(2) If in reading spiritual books and doing spiritual practices, you feel like you're trying to shelter yourself from the hurt and pain of the world, then you're doing a spiritual bypass.

 

What do people here think about this analysis?

 

I think it's good. And I think it's very easy to stick a thin veil of "heroism" over the top of a perfectionist drive intended to mask personal pain and self-loathing (or any other very strong tendency). I'd say, look at what becomes of some teachers once they get hold of the resources associated with it (people, power, 'foundations', money) and you have an answer as to how much bypassing is going on there.

 

----opinion alert---

[doc benway]

~~~~Mod Message~~~~~

 

Thread moved from Taoist to General Discussion as requested

This appears to be the most appropriate forum for this thread

Enjoy

 

~~~~Mod Out~~~~~~~~~

[skydog]

EFT Matrix Re-imprinting- Healing and changing childhood traumas

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/22160-how-to-heal-negative-memories-extremely-powerful/page__view__getnewpost

 

Shadow work

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/22112-what-do-you-dislike-about-yourself/page__hl__WHAT%20DO%20YOU%20DISLIKE

Edited January 11, 2012 by sinansencer

[Jetsun]

[dwai]

[Jetsun]

Does that not increase one's ability to "deal with" the pain? So is the seeker not seeking refuge from the pain, albeit not by trying to escape it but by opening their view and putting the pain in the larger perspective?

 

I guess that't right, it can help change your perspective in many beneficial ways so you can see all the positives within the negatives and if you study the Tao and the nature of change you can gain faith that all things will change and be transform naturally if we let them and stop interfering, so suffering and pain can become more bearable and manageable by trusting in the natural process of it resolving itself rather than anxiously trying to get rid of it.

[skydog]

1) Being brutally authentic and honest both with yourself and other people (actually it may be better to share with an understanding person)

 

Read Radical Honesty or gestalt therapy. It frees up a lot of energy to be fully yourself.

 

2)Also going to lots of parties and socialising....a few times a week (pushing your fears, experiencing being loved, socialising), keeping good friends and company that respect you.

 

3) In Nathaniel Branden's six pillars of self esteem- one is to set yourself-goals and values and live up to them...

 

4) Some codependency tools- eg visualising being a baby and your parents hugging and caressing you- John bradshaw, Codependency no more

 

I agree that often meditation is used to cover up traumas and scars and pain, why is why addicts are addicts and actually, 99% of society is addicted, when you meditate your brain produces drugs, so meditating is like being addicted to drugs. Whereas releasing traumas i.e EFT Matrix Re-imprinting will bring you more to your childlike state..

Edited January 11, 2012 by sinansencer