Seeking the Master of Mo Pai: Adventures with John Chang by Jim McMillan (book release)

[Thunder_Gooch]

I would love to see where all these people who just joined with under 10 posts IP addresses come from, Australia I am guessing if not there I bet they can traced back to a proxy service.

Edited December 23, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[rjb]

I would love to see where all these people who just joined with under 10 posts IP addresses come from, Australia I am guessing if not there I bet they can traced back to a proxy service.

 

I hope your not referring to me, but the main point of debate here is not were people may be living is it?

From what I see the great debate is ownership and secrecy of the art form. This is the metaphorical wound that

is open in front of us and harsh words like mine will not heal this wound so I am sorry for that.

[Thunder_Gooch]

No not you per se, it's just we have a guy from Australia (we think) who is running a scam selling rare Taoist books and amulets etc, he claims to have a copy of the mo pai manual and scams people out of their money for it.

 

He has multiple paypal accounts to launder money with, and has been causing lots of problems here and on other forums.

 

His modus operandi is creating lots of new fake accounts with low post amounts to argue in mo pai threads and message people telling them he has copies of the mo pai manual to sell them. Usually these new low post accounts turn out to use an Australian ISP.

[Oolong Rabbit]

I just finished reading the book, and it certainly paints a different picture than Kostas' books. It could use some polishing as it kind of jumps around a lot, and he repeats himself a fair bit. There's also too much christian judgementalism for my taste. I understand Jim's frustration though, since he invested so many years of dedicated training only to get the rug pulled out from under him. I can't believe I am saying this, but it actually makes me wonder if John Chang might not be the real thing after all. I know that was not Jim's intention, but there are little things that just raise red flags for me the way Jim describes them. Maybe that is why no one ever gets to level 4.

[Gerard]

Trust this:

 

Daoism to the mountains.

 

Buddhism to the world.

 

The first is easy to deceive, the second is not becomes it is brutally honest:

 

YOU...and...your MIND.

 

No frills approach, which is way produces more enlightenment that Daoist practice.

 

One method:

 

Walk alone silently in meditation for 400km non-stop at a tortoise's pace. I can guarantee you instant enlightenment; unfortunately not many will do it, because it is ugly, boring, very demanding and you are on your own, like the Buddha did. He himself alone, naked in the open amongst rotten corpses.

 

 

 

 

Stop looking for John Changs. Seek within yourselves.

 

 

Good luck to you all!

[Oolong Rabbit]

You're preaching to the choir brother.

[Gerard]

We all preach in here, BROTHER, some with more intensity than others. Hahaha. Alternatively let's all ask Sean to shut down the forum and start practicing for real.

[brother12]

Trust this:

 

Daoism to the mountains.

 

Buddhism to the world.

 

The first is easy to deceive, the second is not becomes it is brutally honest:

 

YOU...and...your MIND.

 

No frills approach, which is way produces more enlightenment that Daoist practice.

 

One method:

 

Walk alone silently in meditation for 400km non-stop at a tortoise's pace. I can guarantee you instant enlightenment; unfortunately not many will do it, because it is ugly, boring, very demanding and you are on your own, like the Buddha did. He himself alone, naked in the open amongst rotten corpses.

 

 

 

 

Stop looking for John Changs. Seek within yourselves.

 

 

Good luck to you all!

 

And where has that philosophy gotten you so far Gerard ? Can you levitate yet or display anything out of the ordinary ? If you are practicing from a genuine lineage these powers should unfold automatically and you dont really have a choice whether or not you want them.

[Gerard]

The Dharma is not a philosophy. Start practicing and see for yourself. Why should I prove anything to you? It is YOU what matters the most. If I show you now my ability to change water into wine, how does this benefit you?

 

The problem with many people is that they can't see past the siddhis, which is another form of sustaining a non-existing ego.

[Chiller]

The Dharma is not a philosophy. Start practicing and see for yourself. Why should I prove anything to you? It is YOU what matters the most. If I show you now my ability to change water into wine, how does this benefit you?

 

The problem with many people is that they can't see past the siddhis, which is another form of sustaining a non-existing ego.

 

How would your changing water into wine benefit me? Hmm. It will make us want that siddhi and it would get us dedicated to practice until we get the ability to change water in wine. Once we have accomplished this and bored and have no use of this siddhi we can go for higher siddhis. Once we are bored and have no use of these siddhis we will let go of attachments and of the ego and aim for enlightenment. To summarize it would greatly benefit us if you show us your skill.

[Oolong Rabbit]

How would your changing water into wine benefit me? Hmm. It will make us want that siddhi and it would get us dedicated to practice until we get the ability to change water in wine. Once we have accomplished this and bored and have no use of this siddhi we can go for higher siddhis. Once we are bored and have no use of these siddhis we will let go of attachments and of the ego and aim for enlightenment. To summarize it would greatly benefit us if you show us your skill.

 

You could spend all day marvelling st the boat, or you could just get in it and paddle across the river.

[Cheshire Cat]

The Dharma is not a philosophy. Start practicing and see for yourself. Why should I prove anything to you? It is YOU what matters the most. If I show you now my ability to change water into wine, how does this benefit you?

 

The problem with many people is that they can't see past the siddhis, which is another form of sustaining a non-existing ego.

 

The problem here is that there are a lot of words as "maya" "non-existing-ego", realisation etc...

This stuff have a practical meaning only at a certain level... for guys like me, it's just dogmatic belief.

 

Walking 400 km in that way will surely change you, but into what? Is that enlightment?

Living 20 years in a tropical island will change you also.

 

Enlightment is beyond my comprehension, so I go on one step at a time.

Achieving siddhis like talking with spirits and so forth is a wonderfull step towards enlightment

from my point of view.

[variable]

I've just finished reading "Seeking the Master of Mo Pai" and a couple of things ring true: Displaying siddhis attracts the wrong people and Mo Pai is a technology school and not an enlightenment school.

Demonstrating siddhis tends to attract ambitious people who want to replace the master. Even enlightenment schools have always had betrayers, let alone the fight schools. My feeling is this is why the fighting schools in China were always so secretive - even to disciples - you never could tell when that up and coming student was going to try and take over. The Mo Pai's current disarray seems entirely natural.

That John Chang and Jim McMillan are devoted Christians is no surprise either. Shooting lightning bolts might be fun for a little while, but its not going to do anything to satisfy that inner ache for the beyond. Plainly, for all their "power" they need somebody to hold their hand.

[Great Tiger]

I have read the book, twice and it's not teaching Mo-Pai and it is not profiting from Mo-Pai. If Jim is profiting from anything it is from his personal choice to travel and have an adventure and so he shares that.You may notice this is the better part of what books are, but I am not shocked if you don't.The title of the book is a tip off to that fact and I am not sure why you look past that but I have some ideas as well do a few on this site. The word "Karma" is one you don't understand, and if you think a mans trip is going to change MMA your wrong, just read your own words " Heaven forbid this information gets into the hands of the MMA/NHB World. I have been told there are no techniques outlined in this book" you sir are vary, vary funny for lack of a better term. The "information"(assuming your talking about Mo-Pai and not Jim's book all of a sudden) being in the hands of everybody ?!?! what would be the problem with that? other than the odd fool not practicing and spending time inarticulately flipping out on better people and even then the good out ways the bad. Or did you mean that people will read about Jim's travels and instantly know were the Mo-Pai book of teachings is and then they'll just hop in there and steal it,translate it,learn it and practice it then somehow everybody will learn it and practice it, Just imagine the whole world meditating oh my what a scary thought. Oh and a little secret you might not be aware of, books cost money...it's science.

 

 

Hello fellow seekers,

 

I am new to this site but I wanted to get involved right away and express my opinions to see how we can all hopefully grow and develop together.

 

Let me just start by introducing myself. I am an acupuncturist, martial artist, and seeker who has studied many different arts, including qigong, neigong, Reiki, hypnosis, witchcraft (when I was young and naive), new age arts (that specialize in "out of body experiences" and "astral travel", and many others too numerous to mention. I was born, baptized and confirmed a Christian/Catholic, although I have found myself on the path of Taoism in my old age (I am a ripe 38). Although I may be considered much too old to begin a spiritual path that many of our current masters began even before they were teenagers, I believe we can still have an opinion on things. I may be too old to begin training in a "path", but perhaps my words can hopefully inspire some good conservation and at the very least, help me to understand what I have missed out on for most of my life. So here goes...

 

I can not say that I am not envious of those fortunate few who were chosen when they were barely old enough to speak, as is evident in many of the mainstream books that seem to capture everyone's attention. I wish, having lived over half my life in a "normal" fashion thus far, that 3 hermit sages knocked on my parent's door and told them that I was the "chosen one" to continue a 2,000 year-old legacy or something, spending my teenage and young-adult years playing "hide and go seek" with the Universe while my friends led normal lives and drank, had fun, met women, and so forth. But then again, I feel like I would have missed out on a lot of great experiences had I been "chosen" to walk a spiritual path at such a young age. I guess what I am saying is, there is always a trade off...

 

In terms of this website, I have met many great masters myself. One prime example is my second qigong teacher, who could (legitimately) cut a plastic chopstick in half with a dollar bill (and I know it wasn't a trick like some "masters" do by cutting it with their finger) because he failed several times in front of me (I was holding one end of the chopstick on many occasions), and even when he failed, there was a distinct burn mark on the chopstick where the dollar bill hit the chopstick, and also, when he did fail, the bill tore in half perfectly as if cut by a pair of scissors, rather than being jagged. And these were always bills he took from the audience. Several being my own. This master also had the ability to "zap" people, and I have personally experienced this from him many times, where he would meditate and then touch certain acupuncture points on my body and I would feel a distinct electrical charge until he removed his finger from my skin. Quite amazing, to say the least. When I questioned this master about how I could achieve his abilities, he danced around the subject. I asked him to teach me how to cut the chopstick in half, and his answer was "When the dollar bill touches the chopstick, the bill becomes the chopstick, and the chopstick becomes the bill." He then smiled and walked away, as if he had just given me an amazing secret. Needless to say, his metaphor was absolutely useless, at least for me. He said that to me 8 years ago, and I can't even manage to tear the bill in half, let alone cut the chopstick.

 

I guess my initial point here is - are we seeking "enlightenment" and are we pursuing "the path" in order to realize our true nature, or to simply gain "cool" abilities? I am not saying I am not guilty of this pursuit myself, but it seems as though many of us on this forum only want to study under people who can teach us how to light stuff on fire, or cut a banana in half with our energy from 3 feet away or whatever. Push a chopstick through a table and what not. Don't get me wrong, that stuff is cool and we all want to be real-life Jedi or whatever, but do you really want to devote 20 years of your life to a practice that "may" allow you to do something cool? Isn't the whole point of internal cultivation to find out who you really are in relation to the Universe? I mean, if you want to set a newspaper on fire, I have an awesome technique that anybody can learn in 3 seconds - light a match.

 

I checked out this forum before I joined and I see so many angry and hateful people posting so many negative things about each other. "My master is higher than your master" and "this person was only level 2A and not 2B" and "John Chang is a racist" and all this other nonsense. In my humble opinion, the problem with qigong, neigong and the internal arts is that it is extremely difficult to quantify what you are exactly getting in return for your efforts and/or money. And by efforts, I mean TIME, which as an old man, I know you can never get back. You can break your TV, you can break up with your girlfriend, lose your friends, divorce your wife, etc. You can ALWAYS get new ones. But the one thing you can never get a refund for is TIME, which in my mind, is probably the reason why there is so much anger and frustration on this site. People can study under a "master" for 20 years, and if he doesn't take you anywhere, you just "lost" 20 years of your short life that could have been spent with a "real" master that could have taught you how to shoot a lightning bolt out of your a$$ or whatever. That's the REAL issue, I think, and I I just wanted to throw that out there to start a dialogue. I guess what I am saying is, if I go to Macy's and pay $300 for a coat, I expect to get a coat. Period. If I wear it a few times and don't like it, I still have the receipt and can always get my money back to spend on a better coat somewhere else, so my money is never wasted, but most importantly, I didn't lose any time off my precious life. BUT - if I pay a "master" $300 for "knowledge of a particular lineage" - I just paid money for something that there is no guarantee for, no refund for, and most importantly, I am going to have to invest months, if not years of my LIFE in order to somehow reap the benefits of my investment. And if I can't shoot a beam of light out of my nipples or whatever, not only do I feel robbed, but I can't get my TIME back. Forget about the money. Money comes and goes, but time is lost forever. And since there is technically no objective, scientific method of measuring qi, or yin, or yang or whatever (true science does not even acknowledge these ideas), then how do we know that these supposed "masters" are telling us the truth about our development, if they are even able to? I am not saying it isn't possible, but it certainly leaves a huge window open for "subjective diagnosis", don't you think?

 

I am thinking this is the reason why so many of us "seekers", who are supposedly cultivators of peace and inner bliss, continuously bash each other and their teachers on this forum (and others). But I guess the one real question we should be asking ourselves is - does the information of true internal cultivation and enlightenment come form other "mere mortals" like ourselves, or from God (or the Creator, or whatever you believe). And if you do believe in a higher power, than why would you rely on another man to try and introduce you to God? Just something to think about, I guess. It's like confessing to a priest that you sinned by calling your girlfriend a cornhole, and him telling you to say 10 Hail Mary's, while he is fapping to one of his altar boys. Utter hypocrisy and not based on "truth'. I will leave it at that for now, and I welcome the responses from my fellow seekers. But please be kind, for I am a gentle, delicate soul...

 

Many blessings to you all,

 

Dahu

[Moonbar]

Great post from a Great Tiger

[rjb]

Great post from a Great Tiger

Yeah I like him too, Nice to meet you Great Tiger. I'll be sure to put my two cents down on your thoughts soon with respect

[Great Tiger]

Yeah I like him too, Nice to meet you Great Tiger. I'll be sure to put my two cents down on your thoughts soon with respect

[rjb]

The art form of Mo Pai is bigger than John or any of his preceding masters , and even at that, it's more then an art form.

It's the apparent fact that the human body is a lot more capable than it is given credit, so now you have to say you don't know everything about your self and this is a large piece of everything that the human body is capable of.

Not everybody likes to do such things and it gets harder with religious applications that may conflict, but the fact remains Mo Pai is real and there's a lot more of it in our past than we know.

These things get eroded by time,myth, doubt and secrecy like Egypt.

And in the end of histories days it only takes one bad generation, I bet some will think it us but I am fairly confident that Mo Pai will live on through this generation and it will go on believed and disbelieved, it's a real shame that something like Mo Pai can't rewrite a medical book anytime soon but were getting there and I am sure well all see this point in time is still a vary primal one, just like the 1920's.

 

Regarding the book that Jim wrote, don't you think Jim really stuck it to Kosta danaos. I was really happy to see the title of the book wasn't miss leading like "Nei Kung: The Secret Teachings of the Warrior Sages" and the trip to and through Surabaya was awesome! and I have a feeling it's his first book so good for him!

[rjb]

As far as people trying to learn Mo Pai for cool tricks, I do not think that is possible.The one to have a drive of that will not last and I believe that there is more than that in every human on earth for the good of them and the bad.

A lot of tribes didn't have a lot of shamans and it hasn't been on an incline, it won't be any different for us, a few of the members here will actually practice Mo Pai and many wont.

If we taught Mo Pai in schools it might be much different but I don't think the government is in for acts leading to freedom.

[rjb]

 

In my humble opinion, the problem with qigong, neigong and the internal arts is that it is extremely difficult to quantify what you are exactly getting in return for your efforts and/or money. And by efforts, I mean TIME, which as an old man, I know you can never get back. You can break your TV, you can break up with your girlfriend, lose your friends, divorce your wife, etc. You can ALWAYS get new ones. But the one thing you can never get a refund for is TIME, which in my mind, is probably the reason why there is so much anger and frustration on this site. People can study under a "master" for 20 years, and if he doesn't take you anywhere, you just "lost" 20 years of your short life that could have been spent with a "real" master that could have taught you how to shoot a lightning bolt out of your a$$ or whatever. That's the REAL issue, I think, and I I just wanted to throw that out there to start a dialogue.

 

Hi Dahu,

 

You know I would bet your right and there is a lot of negativity based around internal arts due to misinformation, is sad that it happens, and it sad that there has to be a vale of secrecy around real internal arts that leads to this fake teacher getting money thing. Whats really funny is not only the student is wasting his time but the fake teacher is too. A man that was surly on an internal quest and failed so he made money faking it, or he just never knew his art was hallow in a seance. At least with a little luck the student can find out he's a fraud and learn what isn't real, but the supposed teacher is stuck with his foolish daemons forever, he could make millions and die with regrets witch don't go away when you die. Now our student just has to go back to his compass and find his next destination with a little more knowledge of were not to go. The art of the search it's self, is one that shouldn't have many attachments, you must test your teachers not the other way around and don't get hung up on a teacher in the first place, if your a human and there human and there not willing to give you info that would better you for free you have to ask why. Sometimes there's a reasonable amount and reason but so many are not so avoid them as a source of knowledge, find free sources that have no reason to lie, like the Ring of Fire John Chang Video it's self. There is a lot of free information in Johns actions in that video and it may take a background in some internal practices witch is also free but that's all under an internet bill I suppose so it's not really free, then again what else do you do with money other than hold on to it. I personally hate money, so I love getting rid of it. I am happiest broke, I feel more human in a way.Anyways I hope this all helps your efforts for dialogue Dahu and I wish you well. As well as Moonbar , I like him too and I don't know why yet.

Edited June 8, 2012 by rjb

[someone else]

Regarding the book that Jim wrote, don't you think Jim really stuck it to Kosta danaos. I was really happy to see the title of the book wasn't miss leading like "Nei Kung: The Secret Teachings of the Warrior Sages" and the trip to and through Surabaya was awesome! and I have a feeling it's his first book so good for him!

Jim not capable of sticking it to Kosta Danaos. Different quality of human being. He try many times to contact KOstas, ask many people for intermediary, but Kostas not interested, so ego wounded and he try to get back like child. You and other customers go ahead and pay him 300 euro, 700 euro, good for you, but if not for Kosta, no one know Jim name ever. This root of problem.

 

Maybe better if you spend money somewhere else htough. Christ say in bible you may not serve God and Mammon. How Jim supposed to so Christian but charge money for meditation, good luck for answer?

[Sifu ReL]

Trust this:

 

Daoism to the mountains.

 

Buddhism to the world.

 

The first is easy to deceive, the second is not becomes it is brutally honest:

 

YOU...and...your MIND.

 

No frills approach, which is way produces more enlightenment that Daoist practice.

 

One method:

 

Walk alone silently in meditation for 400km non-stop at a tortoise's pace. I can guarantee you instant enlightenment; unfortunately not many will do it, because it is ugly, boring, very demanding and you are on your own, like the Buddha did. He himself alone, naked in the open amongst rotten corpses.

 

 

 

 

Stop looking for John Changs. Seek within yourselves.

 

 

Good luck to you all!

 

 

i just like tha part at the end...EVERY ONE be on JOHN CHANGS NUTs, not only do i believe out of 7 billion people that more people know and are stronger the JOHN chang, but ppl should seek within themselfs. no one can teach you the inside of your body. and im sure everyone can get pass level 4 without TALKING TO JOHN CHANG OR ANYONE HE KNOWs.

[JohnC]

And where has that philosophy gotten you so far Gerard ? Can you levitate yet or display anything out of the ordinary ? If you are practicing from a genuine lineage these powers should unfold automatically and you dont really have a choice whether or not you want them.

 

Peace. Peace is the power he is obtaining.

 

John