[TTC Study] Chapter 77 of the Tao Teh Ching

[Marblehead]

天道 without 之 occurs in your new chapter 79 too Henricks-translated 'the way of heaven'?

天道 without 之 is explained in 'Questions of Duke Ai' to Confucius (no. 12) :

 

The duke said: 'I venture to ask what it is that the superior man values in the way of Heaven?'

Confucius replied: 'He values its unceasingness. There is, for instance, the succession and sequence of the sun and moon from the east and west - that is the way of Heaven. There is the long continuance of its progress without interruption - that is the way of Heaven. There is its making all things complete without doing anything - that is the way of Heaven. There is their brilliancy when they have been completed - that is the way of Heaven.'

 

But Confucius could have been parroting Lao Tzu. Hehehe.

[ChiDragon]

天道(the principle of Heaven or way of Heaven) is the natural principle from Heaven. Anything was from Heaven just happens without any reason. Good or bad whether one likes it or not; it's the natural law. Human must accept it as the principle of righteous. It was known for centuries without parroting.

[Jeff]

天道(the principle of Heaven or way of Heaven) is the natural principle from Heaven. Anything was from Heaven just happens without any reason. Good or bad whether one likes it or not; it's the natural law. Human must accept it as the principle of righteous. It was known for centuries without parroting.

 

Agreed. Life just is, only humans seem to worry about it... Also (hope no one minds), but I also like the way Jesus said it...

 

Matthew 8:20

20And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

 

[XieJia]

Agreed. Life just is, only humans seem to worry about it... Also (hope no one minds), but I also like the way Jesus said it...

 

Matthew 8:20

20And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

 

 

 

(Going off Topic)

Jeff, I am not quite familiar with the Testaments. But are their any different between Jesus's use of 'Son of Man' and 'Man'?

Edited October 13, 2011 by XieJia

[Jeff]

 

(Going off Topic)

Jeff, I am not quite familiar with the Testaments. But are their any different between Jesus's use of 'Son of Man' and 'Man'?

 

In this context they are the same. Son of Man describes the aspect of earthly existence. Son of God describes the divine aspect. Mainstream Christians would disagree with these definitions, but if you actually read Jesus' words, you will see the direct corrolaltions to Taoism/Buddhism.

 

[XieJia]

From my feeling ; The Way of Heaven, Way of Man and Way of many other things.

I think I understands Lienshan's statement about the Laozi's Way being a subjective one though I couldn't say aswell whether it is subjective/objective since it contains both of the properties.

 

But who am I to claim to know the Dao.

 

In this context they are the same. Son of Man describes the aspect of earthly existence. Son of God describes the divine aspect. Mainstream Christians would disagree with these definitions, but if you actually read Jesus' words, you will see the direct corrolaltions to Taoism/Buddhism.

 

 

 

 

Apologies (Going off topic again);

 

I agree; though there are slight hairbreadth differences from my observation.

But there are striking similarities such as the nature of the Holy Trinity

I had a chance to talk with some Orthodox Christians; there's also much stuff that we can learn from all the traditions.

 

Take Care and Be Well,

 

XJ

 

Edited October 13, 2011 by XieJia

[Jeff]

From my feeling ; The Way of Heaven, Way of Man and Way of many other things.

I think I understands Lienshan's statement about the Laozi's Way being a subjective one though I couldn't say aswell whether it is subjective/objective since it contains both of the properties.

 

But who am I to claim to know the Dao.

 

 

 

 

 

Apologies (Going off topic again);

 

I agree; though there are slight hairbreadth differences from my observation.

But there are striking similarities such as the nature of the Holy Trinity

I had a chance to talk with some Orthodox Christians; there's also much stuff that we can learn from all the traditions.

 

Take Care and Be Well,

 

XJ

 

 

Very true.

 

The Holy Trinity becomes even more interesting when you learn that originally the Holy Spirit was described with a "female" word tense. The "descent" of the power of the Holy Spirit is pretty similar to descriptions of "Kundalini". Western energy is top down. Eastern more bottom up. Same truth.

 

[Marblehead]

The Holy Trinity becomes even more interesting when you learn that originally the Holy Spirit was described with a "female" word tense.

 

Yep. The Father, the Mother, the Child. Can't realistically be any other way.

[dawei]

I will stop all the BS with you....

 

Good to see you confess to your game playing and your admission to continue BS with others will go far with establishing your way on this board.

[dawei]

In this context they are the same. Son of Man describes the aspect of earthly existence. Son of God describes the divine aspect. Mainstream Christians would disagree with these definitions, but if you actually read Jesus' words, you will see the direct corrolaltions to Taoism/Buddhism.

Having the chance to be involved in extremely conservative circles for a while... I would say:

- Son of Man = Ying of Yin

- Son of God = Yin of Yang

 

The "Son" is bi-polar; Sometimes man and sometimes God. Man is inbetween... ergo, Son is "earth" or at least that which is "Heaven-seeking-below". Ergo, man is that which is "on-Earth seeking above".

[ChiDragon]

Good to see you confess to your game playing and your admission to continue BS with others will go far with establishing your way on this board.

 

After all, it takes one to know one.

 

This is final. I will stop all your the BS with you. You may have the last word....

 

 

PS...

Have a nice trip in China. I hope you are happy now....!!!

Edited October 13, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

After all, it takes one to know one.

 

This is final. I will stop all your the BS with you. You may have the last word....

 

 

PS...

Have a nice trip in China. I hope you are happy now....!!!

I am certain it is not final and not the final word. Why would there be some excuse for happiness now? You think there is more happiness to be found in china than in the US?

 

I am here for multiple reasons but I am seeing among other things a specialist who can actually re-set a spine displacement; which every medical doctor in the US and China claims is not possible. I already have the xrays to show them their own claims are like "asking a source for the answer to a chapter".

 

This is not just some sort of cause for happiness; this is just a part of life.

[XieJia]

Very true.

 

The Holy Trinity becomes even more interesting when you learn that originally the Holy Spirit was described with a "female" word tense. The "descent" of the power of the Holy Spirit is pretty similar to descriptions of "Kundalini". Western energy is top down. Eastern more bottom up. Same truth.

 

 

I come from a Buddhist background; the nature of our triple gems is also similar (though many can disagree).

Buddha - Knowing

Dharma - Knowledge

Sangha - Knower

 

The Jains have something similar; Correct Insight, Correct Knowledge, Correct Conduct

 

Daoist: Jing, Qi and Shen;

or one could even look at Dao, De and Jing (This character 經 as a noun it means scripture but as a Verb, it could mean to manage, pass through, undergo, bear or stand) I brought this one up on my own, any error is on me.

 

The Hindus: read up on Trimurti and Tridevi on wiki for something. Theirs are a bit different, they have the Yin and Yang aspect of Birth, Preserving, and Cessation. They have so many deities so I will leave it with the three pairs.

 

Apologies if this offend anyone reading, Any mistake or misconception is my own; I just brought them up for comparison.

 

@Dawei

Hope all goes well; and speedy recovery if any.

Take Care

 

@Others

Be Well

[Jeff]

I come from a Buddhist background; the nature of our triple gems is also similar (though many can disagree).

Buddha - Knowing

Dharma - Knowledge

Sangha - Knower

 

The Jains have something similar; Correct Insight, Correct Knowledge, Correct Conduct

 

Daoist: Jing, Qi and Shen;

or one could even look at Dao, De and Jing (This character 經 as a noun it means scripture but as a Verb, it could mean to manage, pass through, undergo, bear or stand) I brought this one up on my own, any error is on me.

 

The Hindus: read up on Trimurti and Tridevi on wiki for something. Theirs are a bit different, they have the Yin and Yang aspect of Birth, Preserving, and Cessation. They have so many deities so I will leave it with the three pairs.

 

Apologies if this offend anyone reading, Any mistake or misconception is my own; I just brought them up for comparison.

 

@Dawei

Hope all goes well; and speedy recovery if any.

Take Care

 

@Others

Be Well

 

Agreed, and thank you for the post.

 

@Dawei - I also wish you well.

 

[Marblehead]

@Dawei - I also wish you well.

 

 

Indeed! I too offer my Wishes for the Best.

[dawei]

It is nothing short of a miracle by laymans terms. Doctors (east and west) have said it is not possible. The local spinal surgeon here told us we were just trying to trick him with my xrays... but to this toothless, shaggy, graying 'bone healer'... this is Dao at work. We talked quite a bit about such things; the body follows it's natural pattern even to destruction; Call it the body's way. But there is always another way, call it higher or lower; relative positioning really doesn't matter to Dao. The moral of the story is if one can get their body back aligned to the Great Way, then there is a second coming... a second chance. Enough for now. I need to travel to south china for a few weeks but I can walk without pain. I'll follow up with 2 more sessions in Nov.

[Jeff]

@Dawei - Great to hear. Thanks for sharing.

 

[XieJia]

@Dawei

You brings forth my curiosity now, guess should leave it at that.

Glad to hear that things are well.

And yeah Thanks for sharing.

Hope you enjoy your time in China; bow to the Middle Kingdom for me .

 

We are flooding here in Thailand, hope the water doesn't rise more.

But who am I to stand/resent nature?

 

Take Care,

 

Edited October 14, 2011 by XieJia

[Marblehead]

But who am I to stand/resent nature?

 

Yeah, my fish pond likes rain but my solar system likes sunshine. The only time I lose is when it is cloudy all day and I get no rain from the clouds. And I still now and then complain that I'm not getting enough of one or the other.

[dawei]

@Dawei

You brings forth my curiosity now, guess should leave it at that.

Glad to hear that things are well.

In short, I have a slip vertebra at L4-L5; not a slipped disk as is more common. So the bone pattern is out of whack from an old injury and getting worse over time (slipping more and pushing my spine in two directions to adjust to that and causing knee, neck, etc problems).

 

This guy is able to physically move the vertebra back to their original positions. In both the west and east I have heard it unanimously stated that this is impossible to do... I have the xray pictures to show we may not really understand or trust the body as much as we should. Everyone is saying how dangerous this is to do but tell it to this guy who has been doing it for 40 years... Bones move out.... so he moves them back in.... has a bit of Yin to Yang and Yang to Yin flavor...

 

Only time will tell how it all pans out but IMO he sets our understanding of the spine backwards several hundred years and thousands of surgeries later...

[XieJia]

Only time will tell how it all pans out but IMO he sets our understanding of the spine backwards several hundred years and thousands of surgeries later...

 

There are many arts that the modern medicine do not see.

May I ask whether he did it through just massage?

 

All the Best David,

 

 

 

 

[dawei]

There are many arts that the modern medicine do not see.

May I ask whether he did it through just massage?

It's hard to describe. He first scans with his hands more like a qigong master but then he uses his hands very physically with range of motion of the limb while manipulating the bone. He literally forces the bone back into place but its done in a technique taught down through his family.

 

If anyone has been to a chiropractor you know they crack a spine area and leave it at that. His technique may involve a pressured crack but after that he then begins to move the bone back into its place and he stays with it until it moves back. He did this with one in my upper spine area as well which I have had cracked dozens of times; but if it needs to be done dozens of times then cracking it is not really doing anything. His goal is to get the bone back into its place, not just crack it.

 

He also checks to see if the adjacent bones are really causing the issue which is what he found in my lower back. Everyone has said that my L5 slippage is the problem. He disagreed and said it was the L3-L4 had pushed my L4 outward and the L5 slipped inward. So he worked outside the L3-L4 and then my tailbone which was 'twisting'; then moved towards the main slippage.

 

The amazing thing isn't just his ability to move bones but that he can know the problem without any internal examination or xray; he simply 'feels it' and probably can 'see' it the way some spiritual levels have attained; but he uses physical force when it comes to actually effecting the correction.

[XieJia]

They work wonders; I am lucky to have met some of people with similar healing capabilities.

Keep us update and do tell me the expression of the conventional doctors' face when they hear your stories.

 

Enjoy China for us, Tao Bums.

[XieJia]

人之道

Taking the context from the MWD B script of the text from chapter 81;

this can slightly change the context we view the Way of Man in this chapter.

 

In my opinion, the context of this chapter shifts slightly.

 

As to relationship of Man and Heaven.

 

The Way of Heaven reduce the abundance and nourish the lacking.

 

The Way Man reduce that of himself (lacking) and nourish the all under Heaven (abundant).

The Man can't reduce the great to serve the small, it is not in Man's place.

 

Something along this line

[Marblehead]

 

The Way of Heaven reduce the abundance and nourish the lacking.

 

I think it is important to keep in mine that the Way of Heaven (Tao) is impartial. Not everyone is going to get the same thing. Some will get rain and others will get sunshine. Some will be tomented by hurricanes and others will be afforded ideal weather.

 

The Way of Heaven (Tao) always seeks balance (harmony) though. I think that this is the importance difference between the Way of Heaven and the way of man as Lao Tzu was speaking to it. (Always remember the Strawdog.)