DNA Evidence Rocks the Boat

[Immortal4life]

I know the basics of who he was, we know what the concept of root races was used to justify too, dragging out root races is offensive, went too far, please let it drop.

 

That concept is something different than what I am talking about here.

[zanshin]

...

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Immortal4life]

pretty much same thing on Blavatsky site.

 

http://www.blavatsky.net/newsletters/DNA_and_atlantis.htm

 

That article is about how that group views the evidence, and the readings of Edgar Cayce, that are presented in the OP!

 

It is that groups view of Edgar Cayce and the specific research in the OP supporting his predictions.

[ralis]

The real research has been presented in several documentaries that proves that all humans are descendent's of ancient people in Africa. I have one article here and when I can find more I will post.

 

 

http://noel.mcn.org/GeneticMigration.htm

[zanshin]

...

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Immortal4life]

Blavatsky wrote about Atlantis and these supposed races of man in late 1800s before Cayce started prophecying. I see no reason to believe any of it is not a scam or pseudoscience. Science should work by collecting evidence and interpreting it with as little bias as possible not trying to make evidence confirm things written in books or told in trance, then if some little piece of reality does match a vague prediction you think oh, it was all right!

 

Edgar Cayce is the most documented Psychic in American history. He was known for predicting the time of the beginning and the time of the end of World War 2, he predicted an alliance between Germany Italy and Japan that would affect the whole world, the onset of the Great Depression 4 years prior, the assasination of JFK, the civil rights movements for racial equality, the earth changes of today and melting and shifting of the poles, the discovery of a chamber by seismographs underneath the Sphinx, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, he knew that the Nile had at one time flowed the other direction before scienctists knew it, and many other things.

 

Edgar Cayce on race and equality, segregation, and predictions of the social upheavals of the 1960s. He said there must be one set of rules for everyone, and everyone must be equal-

http://youtu.be/NXDeQMLxoEs?t=6m56s

Edited October 10, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

The real research has been presented in several documentaries that proves that all humans are descendent's of ancient people in Africa. I have one article here and when I can find more I will post.

 

Much evidence proves that not all humans originated in Africa, and certainly did not evolve from animals or a common ancestor of the apes-

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18633-peer-reviewed-research/page__p__261730__fromsearch__1entry261730

 

and-

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18634-human-anatomy-the-spiritual-perspective/

[fiveelementtao]

now that we have a conflict on the topic of racism and racist images

 

Lets leave the choice about the nature of your post to the future readers.

 

Whether you have an agenda or not the images are clearly offensive

 

Lets leave the choice about the nature of your post to the future readers.

Just popping in to enjoy the flying fur and to once again suggest that these threads be moved into the pit where they belong...

 

Peace out.

[Apech]

*** Moderation Message ***

 

I am personally uncomfortable with having a thread on TTBs which appears to support a racist theory about the development of mankind. I would prefer to delete this thread entirely but as a moderator I have to follow some rules. In the light of the request above I am going to move this thread to the Pit. Further moderation action may follow once this issue has been discussed by the moderation team.

 

Apech for Mod Team

 

*** Mod Message Ends ****

[thelerner]

Blavatsky wrote about Atlantis and these supposed races of man in late 1800s before Cayce started prophecying. I see no reason to believe any of it is not a scam or pseudoscience. Science should work by collecting evidence and interpreting it with as little bias as possible not trying to make evidence confirm things written in books or told in trance, then if some little piece of reality does match a vague prediction you think oh, it was all right!

 

This gets to the heart of many arguments I have with Immortals posts. Too often they're agenda driven and all too willing to distort or bias records. Nothing wrong with speculation, but its dangerous when its not presented as such.

 

When far fetched speculation is stated as fact, you begin to build skyscrapers on shaky ground. To me, the pity is the first layer is sound and needs honest analysis. Move too quickly from this ancient city is underwater to must be the alien builders and you scare away honest archaeology.

[Machin Shin]

Edited October 10, 2011 by Machin Shin

[manitou]

Give Immortal a break!

 

The intent of his post was to update some old ideas about all humanity starting in Africa. Which color man would you like to see in the center? Does it matter at all? All men are One in their essence, and the color of one's skin makes no difference, other than the life experiences he may have.

 

To consider Immortal as a racist is ridiculous, particularly if you've been reading Immortal's posts for a long time. Like it says in the Dao, when rules and standards and laws are enacted, the Dao is lost. Immortal should apologize to no one. If the picture gets anybody's dander up, they've got some work to do on their own racial biases. Underneath the raised dander is love for all.

[gendao]

I have to admit I haven't read all this ... but do we really need archaic pictures of the 'races' of human beings? Race is not accepted as a legitimate genetic description of any actual basic differences between people.

 

Not happy with this at all.

Orly?

 

Does this apply to Asians too? Or only humans of other races?

In general it's more an Asian thing, although work does have something to do with it. As far as I can make out it's part genetic, with many Asians not being as highly sexed as the other races.

That sure sounded like a basic difference between people attributed to racial genetic difference? That no mods (including you) had heartburn with? So, how come that thread did not get thrown into the Pit by the very same logic?

 

 

I agree with manitou. The anti-I4L lynch mob in this thread is just the typical liberal tactic of crying racism simply to discredit someone whom they ideologically disagree with (like Ross Perot, Tea Party, Ron Paul, etc). But obviously, none of you really care about any real racism...unless it's politically-expedient.

Edited October 10, 2011 by vortex

[Enishi]

I think many white liberals (generally Baby Boomers but many Generation Y hipsters have absorbed the same unconscious beliefs) have an internalized self-guilt complex that creates double standards they aren't always aware of. This creates situations like that of white people sitting around talking about how evil white people are, along with a picture of a white man in the center of the five races receiving much more scrutiny than one with an African or Asian man in the center would have received. It also takes the form accusations of racism being used to dismiss an unwanted viewpoint if there's even a slight oppurtunity to interpret it as such, as Vortex mentioned. Racism is racism, even when it is directed towards your own "race".

 

IM4L's posts in this thread were NOT racist IMO.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Enishi

[konchog uma]

did anyone ever f*ing care how SEXIST the pic was?

 

or is that just not an issue? i'm really curious

[fiveelementtao]

This gets to the heart of many arguments I have with Immortals posts. Too often they're agenda driven and all too willing to distort or bias records. Nothing wrong with speculation, but its dangerous when its not presented as such.

 

When far fetched speculation is stated as fact, you begin to build skyscrapers on shaky ground. To me, the pity is the first layer is sound and needs honest analysis. Move too quickly from this ancient city is underwater to must be the alien builders and you scare away honest archaeology.

 

I agree.

 

I do not think I4L is a conscious racist. But, the fact that he doesn't seem to understand or take into consideration the racist roots of some of the theories he incorporates into his hodge-podge of arguments only shows the serious lack of critical awareness and research he brings to his arguments. Or the fact that he doesn't understand how his views and how he presents them can be seriously offensive to many. I don't think he understands what he is doing or saying much of the time. He doesn't get it... BUT... Ignorance is not an excuse.

 

I am sure he is sincere but so are fundamentalist christians. IMO, if he were to introduce topics and then open it up for dialogue and leave the discussion open for credible evidence and logic, then he would be contributing to furthering understanding. But, he introduces these threads and then simply attacks any credible evidence or argument against his unfounded agenda driven arguments.

 

His attitude in these threads is not one of open dialogue but of one-sided proselyzation. I think that is the basis for moving his threads. He has been very consistent with his attitude and methodology. THAT is why he needs to be moved to the pit, not because the general topics are taboo or because he is a bad guy, but because he does not understand the concept of open dialogue, personal responsibility and tolerance of the views of others.

 

I think I4L has proven that in these threads, he does not contribute to the spirit of the forum that seeks to open minds, create dialogue.

 

I vote that ALL his threads be moved to the pit where there is no moderation and people can indulge in whatever craziness they want. Those who enjoy I4L's threads can come here as much as they want and view his agenda driven, fundamentalist rants along with his threads about how to pick up girls through NLP.

 

I think that if the forum allows I4L to flood the general discussion area with this stuff that it will attract more of the same and it will erode the already declining value of this forum. THe pit is here for a reason. People can discuss just about anything without it contaminating the rest of the forum. In this case, while I4L is probably a good and sincere ( although seriously misguided) person, that in itself does not necessitate indulging this kind of serious irresponsibility to intelligence and objective observation.

 

Move him to the pit and get it over with already...

[Immortal4life]

I agree with manitou. The anti-I4L lynch mob in this thread is just the typical liberal tactic of crying racism simply to discredit someone whom they ideologically disagree with (like Ross Perot, Tea Party, Ron Paul, etc). But obviously, none of you really care about any real racism...unless it's politically-expedient.

 

I agree with this assessment. That is one level of truth. Jesus, it's not like I posted the confederate flag or anything.

 

So far my posts have been called-

dangerous

 

irresponsibile

 

misguided

 

offensive

 

racist

 

 

I'd like to examine this further. What I have noticed, is that the group of people who usually have a problem with me seem to have some things in common. The first thing, they usually seem to be older longer term members. They pine for the good old days, and they have developed their own little virtual groups of friends. They have their own views about how people "should" discuss things. I'm sure they keep posts flowing in slow times, but they don't represent to me the main stream or average viewer.

 

The second thing I have noticed, is a lot of peole who have personal problems with me, are people who have come out of bad experiences with religions or spiritual systems. Often they claim to have grown up in strict fundamentalistic christian houses, or grown up in apacalyptic cults, or to have been involved with many Gurus who they eventually came to believe were false or teaching an evil path. In these cases they are uncomfortable with my style, uncomfortable with initiative, uncomfortable with strong argument, and they project things from their past onto me.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

I am sure he is sincere but so are fundamentalist christians. IMO, if he were to introduce topics and then open it up for dialogue and leave the discussion open for credible evidence and logic, then he would be contributing to furthering understanding. But, he introduces these threads and then simply attacks any credible evidence or argument against his unfounded agenda driven arguments.

 

As explained in the post above, it would appear you are simply projecting your own personal issues onto me.

 

His attitude in these threads is not one of open dialogue but of one-sided proselyzation. I think that is the basis for moving his threads. He has been very consistent with his attitude and methodology. THAT is why he needs to be moved to the pit, not because the general topics are taboo or because he is a bad guy, but because he does not understand the concept of open dialogue, personal responsibility and tolerance of the views of others.

 

I think I4L has proven that in these threads, he does not contribute to the spirit of the forum that seeks to open minds, create dialogue.

 

In a discussion forum, it is inevitable that there will be differences of opinion. When that happens, the discussion naturally becomes a debate. A debate is not proselyzation. Pwnage is not proselyzation. In a debate, it is not up to one side to make a case for the other side.

 

What is the "spirit" of the forum? Who decides that?

 

I will not be posting regularly in the Pit.

 

I vote that ALL his threads be moved to the pit where there is no moderation and people can indulge in whatever craziness they want. Those who enjoy I4L's threads can come here as much as they want and view his agenda driven, fundamentalist rants along with his threads about how to pick up girls through NLP.

 

I think that if the forum allows I4L to flood the general discussion area with this stuff that it will attract more of the same and it will erode the already declining value of this forum. THe pit is here for a reason. People can discuss just about anything without it contaminating the rest of the forum. In this case, while I4L is probably a good and sincere ( although seriously misguided) person, that in itself does not necessitate indulging this kind of serious irresponsibility to intelligence and objective observation.

 

Move him to the pit and get it over with already...

 

I am not willing to post with no moderation. My threads generate enough debate that people could easily turn it into a flame war.

 

The "Value" of this forum is declining? How do you know this? what criteria are you using to determine this?

 

In fact, the forum has expaned recently, with more subforums. That to me, if anything, suggests the forum isn't declining. But I don't really know, and am not sure how you could know that either.

 

Secondly, even if the value of this forum is declining, and it is indeed losing hits, you have no evidence that I am helping this "downward decline" along. This thread itself got over 500 hits in one night. Moving it to the pit means more lost hits.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Immortal4life

[manitou]

did anyone ever f*ing care how SEXIST the pic was?

 

or is that just not an issue? i'm really curious

 

 

Oh, that's funny.

 

My guess is that looking at the particular drawing, it looks like it was drawn way back a long time ago. My guess is that the author of the study or the artist who drew the drawing (perhaps the same man) perhaps put his self image, a rather professorial type, as the center. I think this is natural, artistically thinking - unless he decided ahead of the game that people would think it was racist, at which point he would probably put himself up in the left corner or something.

 

And yes, it was a man who drew it. A female artist would certainly have placed in there females as well, although do remember that back in the good old days of that drawing, women may not have shared the status that they do today (not that it's in balance yet, but it's closer).

 

I have a bone to pick with the absolute taboo nature of even getting down to racial name-calling. Granted, it's horrible. But our political correctness is getting in the way of pulling off the scab that needs to be pulled off, and to get into some real discussions. We can't eliminate Any type of discrimination as long as we pretend that there is no difference between one person and the other....and it seems like political correctness just gets in the way of what must ultimately happen.

 

We must see our Oneness.

[Jeff]

....and it seems like political correctness just gets in the way of what must ultimately happen.

 

We must see our Oneness.

 

Agreed.

 

[Apech]

Give Immortal a break!

 

The intent of his post was to update some old ideas about all humanity starting in Africa. Which color man would you like to see in the center? Does it matter at all? All men are One in their essence, and the color of one's skin makes no difference, other than the life experiences he may have.

 

To consider Immortal as a racist is ridiculous, particularly if you've been reading Immortal's posts for a long time. Like it says in the Dao, when rules and standards and laws are enacted, the Dao is lost. Immortal should apologize to no one. If the picture gets anybody's dander up, they've got some work to do on their own racial biases. Underneath the raised dander is love for all.

 

Ok I see there is some discomfort with this mod action but please remember the following from the Mod Guidelines:

 

Causes for moderation action:

 

* Making personal insults of other members

* Stalking and unduly harassing other members

* Profanity and vulgar language

* Threatening other members in any way

* Discrimination whether based on gender, race, religion, culture or creed

* Posting images that would be deemed offensive to the general public

* Unwarranted spam

* Links to malicious websites

* Links to websites that would violate these guidelines

* Illegal content (ie: links to download copyright software)

* Content that jeopardizes someone's privacy in an unsafe way or is otherwise dangerous to their safety

* Excessively and deliberately hijacking threads

* Overtly and incessantly trying to convert others (will be considered as spamming)

 

I am not accusing I4L of being a racist I am saying that the content he posted is discriminatory. I confess that racism is something I personally hate. I've lived and worked in some places where there was a lot of racism in schools and society generally. One thing that supports racism is stereotypes and received attitudes about what people are like which are real barriers to people actually living along side each other and getting on. And its not about middle-class sensibilities or whatever its about real hate and violence, bullying and so on perpetrated against the 'different' minority. Its not political correctness to combat something that is so real and nasty.

 

I suppose it was natural for people in the 19th an dearly 20th century to examine the people of the world in terms what they assumed were intrinsic differences such as skin color and so on ... but as far as I am concerned science since then has demonstrated that we are all homo sapiens and essentially the same as humans (despite cultural differences). Why anyone would want to go back to these old ways of seeing things is beyond me. This includes when we are looking at alternative views on history I don't see why race is thought important. For instance I am personally quite convinced by the idea that there was a pre-ice age civilization ... Atlantis or whatever ... but given this doesn't that mean we are all Atlanteans????

 

Anyway ... the thread is still here in the Pit and you can carry on with it if you wish.

 

I have no intention of Pitting all of I4L's threads and I have always in the past defended his right to post his subject matter (in the face of quite a lot of strong requests to do otherwise).

[三江源]

did anyone ever f*ing care how SEXIST the pic was?

 

or is that just not an issue? i'm really curious

 

Just so horrendously, obviously true.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

DNA is racist, or so say easily offendeed individuals who would prefer to overlook the topic of discussion in favor of the undesirable information presented in an informative manner, to retire it to "racism".

 

 

Let's stop worrying about such infantile woes and focus more on the relevant data: That DNA does not support evolution on the basis of all humanity originating from Africa, or as dark skinned people.

 

 

IF that were true, after all, then it would suggest that blacks are the most inferior evolution of humanity, and this post suggests the exact opposite, that we are ALL EQUAL.

 

 

 

WHAT retardation did it take to misunderstand that?!?

 

{Edit:}

Case in point:

 

I have to admit I haven't read all this ...

Not happy with this at all.

 

So... maybe literacy is one's best friend.

 

A picture may say a thousand words, but a caption can omit the irrelevant ones!!!

{/Edit:}

Edited October 13, 2011 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[thelerner]

Give Immortal a break!

 

The intent of his post was to update some old ideas about all humanity starting in Africa.

 

To consider Immortal as a racist is ridiculous, particularly if you've been reading Immortal's posts for a long time. Like it says in the Dao, when rules and standards and laws are enacted, the Dao is lost. Immortal should apologize to no one. If the picture gets anybody's dander up, they've got some work to do on their own racial biases. Underneath the raised dander is love for all.

Agreed.

I have my problems with what I consider his over topic'ing, but its way off base to prescribe any racist motives to what he writes.

 

Michael

[Apech]

DNA is racist, or so say easily offendeed individuals who would prefer to overlook the topic of discussion in favor of the undesirable information presented in an informative manner, to retire it to "racism".

 

 

Let's stop worrying about such infantile woes and focus more on the relevant data: That DNA does not support evolution on the basis of all humanity originating from Africa, or as dark skinned people.

 

 

IF that were true, after all, then it would suggest that blacks are the most inferior evolution of humanity, and this post suggests the exact opposite, that we are ALL EQUAL.

 

 

 

WHAT retardation did it take to misunderstand that?!?

 

{Edit:}

Case in point:

 

 

 

So... maybe literacy is one's best friend.

 

A picture may say a thousand words, but a caption can omit the irrelevant ones!!!

{/Edit:}

 

OK maybe I'm retarded and illiterate ... just to help me then can someone explain how you would divide humanity into races and what would be the defining characteristics of those races? A list would help.