Yigong by Sifu Jenny Lamb

[Owledge]

But some of the things I read seem contrary to how true spiritual master would act, so it just raises the question thats all.

He doesn't claim to be a master, nor a teacher. One might call that escaping responsibility for what he does, but it hints at how Max sees himself on the path, and probably means that he still feels very much like a student struggling with own stuff. Also, there might be certain lineage stuff involved that doesn't allow him to call himself a teacher or master. But I think he even mentioned that himself somewhere.

 

 

Consider this: a total beginner comes into this thread and reads your questions. Automatically, they begin to form the opinion that Max:

 

1) Has bad publicity and a "pseudo scandal" following him.

...

4) Attracts beginners who end up experiencing problems.

...

8) That Sifu Jenny was his teacher.

 

So the total beginner already thinks these things that have been said about Max are probably true, because they're being presented as common knowledge. But the fact of the matter is: none of those things are true.

 

Not one.

About the points I left in the quote I don't see how those are so certainly untrue.

 

 

To me this is proof I unfortunatly can not show anyone, that both Kan and Max are both happy to be completely fraudulent.

 

...

 

Any way that story I watched with my own eyes is totally different to the last 'How Kan met Max' story. There is no way out of it. He and Kan are Liars.

 

But, they may still be good teachers, even Great. Just a bit challenged on the integrity Level.

Things I can contribute regrding this:

Max admitted at the seminar I attended that he's a trickster. I think he was hinting at what makes a healer or teacher selfless: If you do what is necessary, even if it involves trickery. Sometimes that's what is needed in order to help people. ... Of course this is also a very tricky path ... walking a tightrope - especially if your approach is not successful all the time.

Someone told me that Kan has been known in Japan to be a con artist. I tried to investigate that and at least I couldn't find anything on the WWW, not even a hint. Maybe in the Japanese language WWW, I don't know. This is all too vague to come to any solid conclusion. But labeling Max as a fraud would be unjustified in my eyes, because it is part of the 'spiritual conman' type that they don't really help people, because their basic attitude doesn't allow that.

My personal impression, speaking from compassion (but also a lack of detailed insight), is that Max is still strongly trying to figure out his path in life and is in no way in an 'accomplished life' state.

 

 

As for random people attacking him, I think Witch here at thetaobums tried something in those lines. I don't exactly know the details, but I think it was pretty ugly.

Witch is in love with the role of being a witch (the forum name combined with how often she expresses that she is a witch kinda hints at it, too), and when she reported her experience of trying to 'magically' mess with Max, I think there's a good chance that most or even all of it was happening in her head only. The egoic mind is a powerful tool. As much as the mind can make you imprison yourself, it can make up external things when it's all internal. ... Especially if you're lonely, and so much so that you don't even hesitate stating it publicly (though in a joking, self-ironic way to maintain a minimum level of self-worth).

 

Remember: Pain is an internal phenomenon, but it is created, expressed and healed through the catalyst that is the external experience.

 

 

Sifu Jenny was in my dream last night, she was teaching me how to transplant orchids without killing them! Good omens.

Now you have to ask her whether it was really her. ... Then again, maybe it was a subconscious part of her, then she won't know it.

As long as you cannot logically verify something, better not pay too much attention to it.

 

 

Wudang, which was criticized as too militaristic; Mao Shan, which was feared and criticized for their practice of Thunder Magic; and Kunlun, which was criticized for being too esoteric. and he brought all three together.

Which is Max's understanding, which doesn't have to be flawless. ... It has been suggested to me that the relationship between the three schools is not a rivalry thing, but merely specializations in a common, shared field.

 

 

-----

 

 

Regarding the spontaneous technique: Even the version that Jenny expected credit in the book is just one among others. There are more severe versions. And whatever is the truth, Max will manifest experiences accordingly. But some people claim that Max 'does it wrong', that the way Jenny teaches it is the correct way, that you are supposed to calm down and not 'go crazy'. I think they are simply two different approaches using basically the same technique. This is just a guess from my understanding of the practice, but it seems to me like Jenny's version focuses on getting control over your inner issues, while Max's focuses on completely getting rid of them. Or something like that. After all, even Max emphazises stillness as the final aim; that wild stuff might happen at first, but only as a symptom of the releasing process. That's why I was wondering what the implications are of Jenny telling people to not allow stuff to happen, but to actively remain calm during basically the same technique that Max teaches. Maybe Max discovered a new dimension to the usefulness of the Yi Gong and that caused him in a state of weakness to disrespect the person he learned it from. This can happen when you discover powerful stuff - it's a challenge for the character.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Hardyg

[konchog uma]

 

Now you have to ask her whether it was really her. ... Then again, maybe it was a subconscious part of her, then she won't know it.

As long as you cannot logically verify something, better not pay too much attention to it.

 

 

yeah, i think it was not Her, as in she saw my name on a list of DVD orders and thought "now i must manifest to this person in dreams!" as much as it was either a subconscious part of her, or just a projection in my own dream.

 

hahaah dreams are not logical so i do not apply logic to them. I don't pay too much attention tho so we end up agreeing

[konchog uma]

Regarding the spontaneous technique: Even the version that Jenny expected credit in the book is just one among others. There are more severe versions. And whatever is the truth, Max will manifest experiences accordingly. But some people claim that Max 'does it wrong', that the way Jenny teaches it is the correct way, that you are supposed to calm down and not 'go crazy'. I think they are simply two different approaches using basically the same technique. This is just a guess from my understanding of the practice, but it seems to me like Jenny's version focuses on getting control over your inner issues, while Max's focuses on completely getting rid of them. Or something like that. After all, even Max emphazises stillness as the final aim; that wild stuff might happen at first, but only as a symptom of the releasing process. That's why I was wondering what the implications are of Jenny telling people to not allow stuff to happen, but to actively remain calm during basically the same technique that Max teaches. Maybe Max discovered a new dimension to the usefulness of the Yi Gong and that caused him in a state of weakness to disrespect the person he learned it from. This can happen when you discover powerful stuff - it's a challenge for the character.

 

In the Q&A on her site she acknowledges that the wild stuff happens but she encourages people not to stay stuck at the phase of spasmodic movements, to cultivate gentle movements. I see the sense in that so i'm not really looking for more.

[Nilo]

did you recieve the DVD? Please keep the thread updated of your practice. I'm ordering the DVd right now as well.

 

 

In the Q&A on her site she acknowledges that the wild stuff happens but she encourages people not to stay stuck at the phase of spasmodic movements, to cultivate gentle movements. I see the sense in that so i'm not really looking for more.

[konchog uma]

did you recieve the DVD? Please keep the thread updated of your practice. I'm ordering the DVd right now as well.

 

i have not received the dvd yet, cool that you ordered it too

 

i will keep you updated, i am excited about it.

 

She was in my dream last night again, i was trapped, kidnapped by some nondescript cabal of evil chinese people who wore red and black and had me in their compound. There were egyptian style pyramids there and a lot of hitech stuff, and a general feeling of corruption and negativity throughout. They wouldnt let me go, but i kept hiding from them so they couldnt find me. After a couple days i found a small door in the back of a bathroom and as i was about to go through it, Sifu Jenny was there. I was scared cause i thought at first she was evil and they ahd finally found me but she just watched me. I went through the door and there was a crawlspace and she came through after me. In the peace of that safe place i realized i had a cell phone and as i texted my friend to say "i am kidnapped, help, tell the authorities" i woke up. It was a really long dream, it was like it wouldn't end until i gave it permission to end.

 

btw for those interested, i am not thinking that these manifestations of Sifu Jenny are actually Sifu Jenny as she might dreamwalk or manifest according to her own free will. But i do think that they are patterns of energy that contain information that the universe is telling me, so i listen to them as such.

 

good omens

Edited October 21, 2011 by anamatva

[Nilo]

Yes I feel the same way. Patterns of good energy might manifest in your dream as Jenny or an angel or your deceased dog etc.

 

 

But i do think that they are patterns of energy that contain information that the universe is telling me, so i listen to them as such.

 

good omens

Edited October 21, 2011 by Nilo

[Birch]

Max has authorized me to relay the following message concerning Scotty's remarks in this thread:

 

" I (Max Christensen) did not authorize his (Scotty) speaking on my (Max's ) behalf... Tell the Taobums that I (Max) said that you did not take any method from me."

 

(based on my communications with Max, I take this to mean that this includes any all statements concerning any "opinions" about myself (Mike), Max and any other teacher, including any unverified opinions about the history and sources of any practices of said teachers.)

 

Hmm. I guess it would have been better if a 'neutral' person (if one could find such a thing in this story ;-)) had called Max and asked. It doesn't look good (MO) that you called him and then you reported back. Would have been better if Max himself came online to TTB's and said what you said he said.

 

I wanted to support you in 'getting the facts' and so on but unfortunately, IMO/IME it doesn't work that way.

----not being mean caveat added----

 

My personal experience also tells me that people don't really like being spoken for. So if someone lets you do it, something's up.

[konchog uma]

Yes I feel the same way. Patterns of good energy might manifest in your dream as Jenny or an angel or your deceased dog etc.

 

 

could be santa clause who knows!? dreams are nutty

 

i just found the DVD at the bottom of a care package my girlfriend made me last week. I was wondering how long it takes for mail to get from colorado to my house! Turns out i just didnt examine the very bottom of the bag well enough! So thats that.

 

Will post a little when i have watched it, I'm making a copy right now so it doesnt get scratched

[Owledge]

dreams are nutty

Yeah, you should see a squirrel's dreams!

 

i just found the DVD at the bottom of a care package my girlfriend made me last week. I was wondering how long it takes for mail to get from colorado to my house! Turns out i just didnt examine the very bottom of the bag well enough! So thats that.

Always try to get to the bottom of things.

[konchog uma]

Just an initial reaction, the 10 qigong exercises seem to have a nice internal consistancy and they are unique to any other set i have seen. I think i will do them daily hahaah but thats only cause ive been dreaming of Sifu Jenny

 

The spontaneous movement yigong looks powerful, i got a jolt just watching her. Haven't tried it yet tho. I will tomorrow. Even the jolt i got watching her knocked something out from between my shoulderblades. wow.

 

Opening the channels is a strange looking exercise that i can't comment on because i don't really know what to say so i will leave it at that. (I bet it opens the channels!)

 

She does a tapping exercise that seems a lot like the "beating" in yijinjing. She has said there is a spiritual component to exercises that isn't in the DVD, but i don't know if the point is to agitate the fasciae in order to pack it with chi (like in yijinjing). It seems like one could use the exercise that way, but maybe i am misinterpreting the meaning of the exercise.

 

there is a striking the wall with the back exercise that is neat ("neat" thats right) i dont know what else to say about it... it seems like a useful exercise, again i haven't done it so i don't know what else to say

 

Overall the whole thing seems awesome. I watch a bunch of qigong type vids that make me think "hmmm" this makes me think i should practice it every day. No frills tho if youre looking for the fancy shmancy its not there.

 

i'm sure my posts after i've actually practiced more than the qigong will be more informative than this post

[taodancing]

Yeah, well. I like Max.

 

Someone recently asked me, do you think Max is qualified to combine some practices and create his own Kunlun system?

 

My answer was: more than anyone alive at the moment.

 

Good that some adept is doing the experimentation, innovating on old methods. Orthodox folks don't like to see experimentation.

[witch]

Witch is in love with the role of being a witch (the forum name combined with how often she expresses that she is a witch kinda hints at it, too), and when she reported her experience of trying to 'magically' mess with Max, I think there's a good chance that most or even all of it was happening in her head only. The egoic mind is a powerful tool. As much as the mind can make you imprison yourself, it can make up external things when it's all internal. ... Especially if you're lonely, and so much so that you don't even hesitate stating it publicly (though in a joking, self-ironic way to maintain a minimum level of self-worth).

 

 

For the record, quite right (except for the being in love with being a witch thing--more like living with a clubfoot or something).

 

I'll also say in a non-joking way that I am lonely. And quite damaged.

[Owledge]

I wish you all the best.

[Warrior Body Buddha Mind]

 

 

Witch, why you lonely?

[Seth Ananda]

Just an initial reaction, the 10 qigong exercises seem to have a nice internal consistancy and they are unique to any other set i have seen. I think i will do them daily hahaah but thats only cause ive been dreaming of Sifu Jenny

 

The spontaneous movement yigong looks powerful, i got a jolt just watching her. Haven't tried it yet tho. I will tomorrow. Even the jolt i got watching her knocked something out from between my shoulderblades. wow.

 

Opening the channels is a strange looking exercise that i can't comment on because i don't really know what to say so i will leave it at that. (I bet it opens the channels!)

 

She does a tapping exercise that seems a lot like the "beating" in yijinjing. She has said there is a spiritual component to exercises that isn't in the DVD, but i don't know if the point is to agitate the fasciae in order to pack it with chi (like in yijinjing). It seems like one could use the exercise that way, but maybe i am misinterpreting the meaning of the exercise.

 

there is a striking the wall with the back exercise that is neat ("neat" thats right) i dont know what else to say about it... it seems like a useful exercise, again i haven't done it so i don't know what else to say

 

Overall the whole thing seems awesome. I watch a bunch of qigong type vids that make me think "hmmm" this makes me think i should practice it every day. No frills tho if youre looking for the fancy shmancy its not there.

 

i'm sure my posts after i've actually practiced more than the qigong will be more informative than this post

Cool. Yep for me it is a great set. It spends plenty of time feeling and moving chi, it stretches, it Invigorates.. and with the spontaneous it pretty much covers everything I would want from a Chi Kung set. Such a good balance.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[witch]

 

 

Witch, why you lonely?

 

hmmm...interesting choice of clip

 

I've derailed this thread quite enough! I'll take it down to my personal practice thingummy.

 

I will say in balance that it would be a trifle comforting to be a crazy old cat lady without the cats, but the disconcerting thing is that I mostly turn out to be right. Maybe I just have good instincts, I dunno.

[balance.]

I met Max this weekend.

 

Without a doubt one of the nicest and most genuine humans I've met. Always joking and laughing (and what a laugh!) around... He cultivates an incredibly lighthearted and bubbly atmosphere during the classes... Very relaxed.. Very approachable (but what eyes! Galaxies!)... Makes no secret of his trickster nature. Makes no secret that he holds things back and gives students only what they need at the time. Drops hints. Half-truths. Things that get you thinking and allow you to break through yourself ("you've gotta earn it!").

 

Kan's challenge came up innocently and without guile at one point in the course of regular conversation. Same story.

 

He calls Jenny his "sis" , and is also open about the fact that KL 1-3 are from her, but now with his new system (book enroute) he is careful to note that the end product of it is different from Lamb's system, and from the systems of his other teachers.

 

Says that his teachers are behind him.

 

Says that he has teachers that no one believes him about but that he's "tired of trying to convince people" of their existence.

 

Showed us pictures upon pictures on his harddrives of kan and his GDB etc. No. He did not show us the GDB in person, but seeing/feeling what he is capable of during the kunlun games (energy games with eachother and nature) , really rams home some of his pretty outrageous power (and our own innate ability... he says we'll exceed his current level in our lifetimes if we keep practicing). At some point I think it's important to consider that if such an overt demonstration of attainment is necessary to convince a student of a practices worth than the student is probably not worthy of the practice and the teachers time. Feeling seems more than a little important here. Felt/intuitive truth. Self-efficacy in practice etc.

 

Mentioned "boring" siddhis like levitation.

 

Says he's tired of taking challenges.

 

Say's he's tired of teaching but that he's waiting for something specific to happen so that he can pass the school over to Kan. Say's he suspects he'll pick up Alpaca farming (truly) once this has happened.

 

Max is a story teller. He inundated us with stories throughout the weekend. Some ring immediately true. Some I question. I think about his forwardness with the trickster/coyote stuff. I'm not at all perturbed by this perceived inconsistency in the truth. All of it gets me breaking out of my own conceptual frameworks of what is and what is not possible. Questioning keeps you limber. Blind acceptances seems like it encourages stagnation. Max encourages you to explore it all, and so gives you that varied terrain. People like to nitpick (the taobums more than others). I suppose that's only natural. But when it comes down to it, nearly everyone who has complained about Max here has either never met him, or has conceded that regardless of how they feel about the him, he has helped them none the less.

 

I learned a *huge* amount this weekend. Perhaps most importantly that advanced practitioners are still human. In fact, that's all these various schools of practice are achieving--- they bring us to our full human potential... And Max is indeed very human. Say's even he can't be positive 100% of the time (Talks about daoist tourettes ) .... There is much more that I could say about how tremendously beautiful I found him and Diana (who is no energetic slouch herself) and the entire weekend I spent with them in Mt. Shasta, but I don't think it's all that necessary to convince those dissatisfied with Max of his simple, bubbly, down to earth awesomeness. He is the man.

 

Meet him. He is a human with human flaws. He is also the product of a lifetime spent living his art, and so shines forward as an unassuming but brilliant example for us energetic whelps. I will be seeing him again.

 

 

 

 

 

balance.

Edited January 11, 2012 by balance.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I learned a *huge* amount this weekend. Perhaps most importantly that advanced practitioners are still human. In fact, that's all these various schools of practice are achieving--- they bring us to our full human potential... And Max is indeed very human. Say's even he can't be positive 100% of the time (Talks about daoist tourettes ) .... There is much more that I could say about how tremendously beautiful I found him and Diana (who is no energetic slouch herself) and the entire weekend I spent with them in Mt. Shasta, but I don't think it's all that necessary to convince those dissatisfied with Max of his simple, bubbly, down to earth awesomeness. He is the man. (I mean shoot, the dude plays xbox and blows up zombies)....

Thanks for the great post, and I think this part should really be emphasized. When Kunlun was first taught in bigger seminars I don't think people understood that Max is down to earth, and as a result created this flawed perception of him as some ultra super human being with some demonic powers or whatever. I think part of it was fear, disbelief, fascination, and jealousy. When you go to his smaller seminars and he is just speaking to you in a discussion setting you see that he is very human, who is not on a on a throne perched up on a sky looking down at you, but one who is very much in touch with his inner divinity and earthly existence.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[taooneusa]

something that gets over looked too frequently are the multi-layer metaphor hidden in his life story's

He's been describing the path and alchemy in great detail for many years, though few listen.

living ones life for the Mystery makes every story about it both a lie and a truth.

[doc benway]

When Kunlun was first taught in bigger seminars I don't think people understood that Max is down to earth, and as a result created this flawed perception of him as some ultra super human being with some demonic powers or whatever. I think part of it was fear, disbelief, fascination, and jealousy.

I mostly avoid comment on anything related to Max and Kunlun for a variety of reasons, but I will say this: the perception of Max as you describe as "some ultra super human being with some demonic powers or whatever" was a direct consequence of his marketing program. His early website, his video clips, posted stories of his history and childhood, all designed specifically to create exactly this "flawed perception." He may not have emphasized these things in personal meetings or seminars but it was the only information about him that he made available through his website to the general public. It was a misunderstanding created by Max himself more than any consequence of "fear, disbelief, fascination, and jealousy." I've never met him and I take you all at your word that he is a down to earth, regular guy with something to offer that many people find valuable. But he is also responsible for the hype and misconceptions that he created. At least, that's my read.

[doc benway]

I'll also say in a non-joking way that I am lonely. And quite damaged.

I'm sorry to hear that witch.

I think many of us are.

 

-K- raised a good point recently in another thread that such damage and suffering is often what leads us to question and investigate ourselves more deeply, and consequently leads to emancipation.

If one were to lead a happy, comfortable, care free life, why investigate or change?

[Jetsun]

I mostly avoid comment on anything related to Max and Kunlun for a variety of reasons, but I will say this: the perception of Max as you describe as "some ultra super human being with some demonic powers or whatever" was a direct consequence of his marketing program. His early website, his video clips, posted stories of his history and childhood, all designed specifically to create exactly this "flawed perception." He may not have emphasized these things in personal meetings or seminars but it was the only information about him that he made available through his website to the general public. It was a misunderstanding created by Max himself more than any consequence of "fear, disbelief, fascination, and jealousy." I've never met him and I take you all at your word that he is a down to earth, regular guy with something to offer that many people find valuable. But he is also responsible for the hype and misconceptions that he created. At least, that's my read.

 

Yeah I have to agree, when I first came across his website I thought it was one of the most ridiculous sites I had ever seen, I think he has changed it now though to one less over the top focusing on the teaching rather than the teacher.

[Owledge]

I'd like to mention here something that might give you more insight: When I saw the website, I didn't find it dubious or super-marketing. If someone had asked me to consciously examine it with that in mind, maybe I could have come up with a critique, but when I found Kunlun Nei Gung, I was focused on the truth behind things and not so much the way it manifests.

A dubious (whatever that is) website CAN be a hint at a dubious teacher, but be aware that it doesn't have to be, so you can sabotage your own goals (in lack of a better way of saying it) through judgment like that.

I have learned a lot in the past months about how, with all our mind- and fear-created judgments, we punish ourselves in the end.

Like when I was shopping at Wal-Mart and realized that I should focus on the people there. Or when the easiest way to get rid of a craving for McD food was when the universe helped me with that after I accepted it first. (They eventually annoyed the hell out of me, and I was very thankful for that.)

[konchog uma]

If someone had asked me to consciously examine it with that in mind, maybe I could have come up with a critique, but when I found Kunlun Nei Gung, I was focused on the truth behind things and not so much the way it manifests.

A dubious (whatever that is) website CAN be a hint at a dubious teacher, but be aware that it doesn't have to be, so you can sabotage your own goals (in lack of a better way of saying it) through judgment like that.

I have learned a lot in the past months about how, with all our mind- and fear-created judgments, we punish ourselves in the end.

 

good point. At the end of the day, I don't really care if Max is a trickster or not, or Kunlun is 8,000 years old or the root of all 12 mystery schools, etc., I care if the meditation techniques that he teaches are effective. He has every right to be a trickster, life is a trickster, and as far as marketing, thats his karma for which he has to deal with the repercussions and consequenses. So it doesn't really bother me. (thats one of the reasons i was phrasing my questions so loosely, all the hype i alluded to doesn't really bother me.)

 

Its helpful to realize that he is actually just a guy, since there is a seeming misconception of him as a spiritual master of sorts. It seems like he is a lama in the sense that he is empowered to help others realize and progress in their growth. Maybe, like someone said, the reason his marketing scheme and past actions don't resonate with the expectations one would have of a spiritual master is that he isn't a spiritual master. And that too is just fine with me. I was probably looking for an idealized "spiritual master" with too much thirst to see that he is a practitioner with flaws like everyone else, so i acknowledge that.

 

Anyway, Sifu Jenny's Yigong is really excellent. Its amazing how a simple technique can be so profound. Just doing those mudras and motions with the expectation of spontaneous movement triggers my body to release all kinds of garbage. Some of my motions at first were scary! I see why people ask the questions about jolting and shuddering being ok.. my body has some serious early childhood trauma to heal from too so its nice to feel like i have a means to get in there and root that out. I am looking forward to developing more natural, graceful spontaneous motions, but at first my body really wants some old violent garbage out. I guess im gonna have to go through some more spasmodic motions than i would like. Haha garbage in garbage out as they say.

 

So i found her Yigong pretty easy to pick up on and as soon as started to contemplate "what does that mean, a formless form?" I realized that probably that one technique never really ends so how is there going to be "level 2" to yigong i wonder. Haha but i am not the type to get caught up in levels and that sort of thing. If i stay at level 1 forever and never realize the inner or spiritual aspect of the practice, i still think it can take me a long way in healing, and i really can't wait for my body to just dance and spiral naturally instead of all the garbage releasing. Hahaha she looks so beautiful when she does it, and i look like a fish on a hook. But i am experiencing release of a lot of old feelings that I didnt even realize affected my thinking and feeling. Even in just a couple days, doing it 1x a day, there has been a difference for the better.