[TTC Study] Chapter 80 of the Tao Teh Ching

[Marblehead]

[XieJia]

Comments:

 

I think this ideal state is quite hard to maintain in this day and age unless most people in that community purposes are to cultivate. Although there are some communities and town, that this concepts have been put well into work.

 

Would tend to think that this chapter points more toward how Sage should treat the myriad things within oneself.

 

Have a nice weekend,

 

 

XJ

 

edited - Grammar mistakes

Edited October 14, 2011 by XieJia

[Marblehead]

Comments:

 

I think this ideal state is quite hard to maintain in this day and age unless most people in that community purpose are to cultivate. Although there are some communities and town, that this concepts have been put well into work.

 

Would tend to think that this chapter points more toward how Sage should treat the myriad thing within oneself.

 

Have a nice weekend,

 

 

XJ

 

Hehehe. Yeah, a little later I was going to mention that we can forget this chapter unless the the world population decreases by about 6 billion people.

 

A nice ideal. But very rarely seen any more.

[Protector]

Reminded me of Okinawa for some reason

 

[Jeff]

Comments:

 

I think this ideal state is quite hard to maintain in this day and age unless most people in that community purposes are to cultivate. Although there are some communities and town, that this concepts have been put well into work.

 

Would tend to think that this chapter points more toward how Sage should treat the myriad things within oneself.

 

Have a nice weekend,

 

 

XJ

 

The great thing about the text is that it seems to write at multiple levels (world, mind, esoteric). Giving something to everyone, no matter what the time period...

 

Does anyone see what this section says about Desire?

 

 

Also, have a good weekend.

[XieJia]

The great thing about the text is that it seems to write at multiple levels (world, mind, esoteric). Giving something to everyone, no matter what the time period...

 

Does anyone see what this section says about Desire?

 

 

Also, have a good weekend.

 

 

Seems to be many level like you said; not sure how esoteric is much different from the mind.

 

The Knotting Chord is quite nice;

It's from the same line; something that can be tie and untie.

In that way, one can enjoy their food and see that their clothing is beautiful.

 

I think I can see the thing about Desire.

 

I also like

Though they live within sight of their neighbors,

And crowing cocks and barking dogs are heard across the way,

Yet they leave each other in peace while they grow old and die.

@Sinfest

Hooray you are here, I am reminded of your comic.

Edited October 14, 2011 by XieJia

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Also reminds me of "temporary autonomous zones" (going back to Anarcho-Taoism); having smaller communities that exist without external controls and thus function in harmony with the Tao. They are temporary, because they have to move and move since governments are unable to let them be for fear that their functional ideal will spread, and also since once they get too big, people come in who do not share the ideals of harmony since they do not live outside of selfishness, self-gratification, ego..

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 80
1. A small country is less populated,
2. Even though there are various kinds of tools, but they haven't being utilized.
3. Let the people value their lives and not willing to migrate.
4. Even though there are many boats and carriages, but there was no need to be ridden them.
5. Even though they are armed with weapons, but there was no need to display them.
6. Let people return to the primitive period of to-tight-a-knot as a reminder.
7. Feed them with gourmet foods,
8. Provide them with beautiful attires,
9. Shelter them with good homes.
10. Entertain them with traditional leisure.
11. The people can mutually looking over their neighboring countries.
12. They can hear the noises of the chickens and dogs,
13. Even though the people are die of old age,
14. They had not mutually interacted with each other.

*************
Chapter 80
1. 小國寡民。
2. 使有什伯之器而不用。
3. 使民重死而不遠徙。
4. 雖有舟輿無所乘之。
5. 雖有甲兵無所陳之。
6. 使民復結繩而用之。
7. 甘其食、
8. 美其服、
9. 安其居、
10.樂其俗。
11.鄰國相望，
12.雞犬之聲相聞。
13.民至老死
14.不相往來。

Edited February 23, 2014 by ChiDragon

[stan herman]

Comments:

 

I think this ideal state is quite hard to maintain in this day and age unless most people in that community purposes are to cultivate. Although there are some communities and town, that this concepts have been put well into work.

 

Would tend to think that this chapter points more toward how Sage should treat the myriad things within oneself.

 

Have a nice weekend,

 

 

XJ

 

edited - Grammar mistakes

 

Here's what I see as a more contemporaryversion>

 

80. In the heartland people work who are the heart of the country and would not choose to be its mind even if they could. In the heartland there is space between places, and people's labors provide what they need. Here people live simply and have small use for show, might, or the newest baubles of technology and fashion. Although other places can be reached easily, people preferred to stay at home.

[XieJia]

Here's what I see as a more contemporaryversion>

 

80. In the heartland people work who are the heart of the country and would not choose to be its mind even if they could. In the heartland there is space between places, and people's labors provide what they need. Here people live simply and have small use for show, might, or the newest baubles of technology and fashion. Although other places can be reached easily, people preferred to stay at home.

 

Sounds like a nice place

 

This heartland sounds good, do you know anyone that live there ?

Edited October 15, 2011 by XieJia

[Marblehead]

Sounds like a nice place

 

This heartland sounds good, do you know anyone that live there ?

 

Actually, I did find a few of those the first time I was stationed in Germany in the early 1960s. Not only in Germany but in France and Switzerland as well.

 

My second tour in Europe (Germany and Italy) in the 1970s it seemed that things had changed though. I don't think there are many of those places left anymore unless you go into the Amazon River region. I doubt that one could even find any in China today.

[lienshan]

[Marblehead]

[XieJia]

maybe I could regard my home as a small country.

 

Anyway I go, I will annex them and make it within my small country.

 

Take Care!

[Jeff]

maybe I could regard my home as a small country.

 

And family!

 

Edited October 15, 2011 by Jeff

[ChiDragon]

Eureka Utopia.....!!!

[stan herman]

maybe I could regard my home as a small country.

 

Anyway I go, I will annex them and make it within my small country.

 

Take Care!

 

M, your description of the first tour made me sigh. When I think of the heartland, I think of middle America--maybe in the 1920s. Ah those good old days that never were.

 

X, That's a fine idea.

[Marblehead]

M, your description of the first tour made me sigh. When I think of the heartland, I think of middle America--maybe in the 1920s. Ah those good old days that never were.

 

X, That's a fine idea.

 

Yes, I think that much of America would have been that way up until the late 1920s with all those problems.

[XieJia]

Anyone else see anything else here? in chapter 80.

Edited October 16, 2011 by XieJia

[Marblehead]

You went way back for that song! That's even before my time.

 

Anyone else see anything else here? in chapter 80.

 

Not I.

 

I guess it is time for the next chapter unless someone speaks up.

[110576_1494798793]

I’ve just reread my copy of Stefan Stenudd’s translation and commentary of the Tao Te Ching. Here’s his version of chapter 80.

 

Let the country be small,

And the inhabitants few.

Although there are weapons

For tens and hundreds of soldiers,

They will not be used.

Let people take death seriously,

And not travel far.

Although they have boats and carriages,

There's no occasion to use them.

Although they have armor and weapons,

There's no occasion to wear them.

Let people return to making knots on ropes,

Instead of writing.

Their food will be tasty.

Their clothes will be comfortable.

Their homes will be tranquil.

They will rejoice in their daily life.

They can see their neighbors.

Roosters and dogs can be heard from there.

Still, they will age and die

Without visiting one another.

 

I was reading his commentary on this chapter and this is a small part of it-

 

I have some problems with this chapter. It describes what Lao Tzu regards as a dream

society, but I find it kind of boring. No travel, no visions, no aspirations, and no

curiosity. Nothing but the routine of everyday life. It's certainly peaceful and secure, but

isn't it also dull?

 

What Lao Tzu is describing is almost my lifestyle! And I love it!

 

I live on acreage in the sticks, near a very small country town. I lived here for almost a year before I knew the name of any neighbour. We had a very bad flood event thirteen months ago and the people from the district would go to the local sport ground beside the pub to meet and share information about food drops, road conditions, weather reports and communication issues. I met other people from my street that I had not even seen in the four years I had been here! And they were saying they were meeting neighbours for the first time in years! Everyone keeps to themselves but will give a hand whenever it’s asked for. Now I’m great mates with one neighbour, even though we only speak to each other every few months.

 

My wife, on the other hand…well, she sometimes agrees with Stefan!

 

You can find a PDF copy of his book on his site, http://www.stenudd.com/

[Marblehead]

Nice.

 

I would agree that such a way of life might be boring for some. I guess that is why the world is as it is mostly now-a-days.

 

Bored? Plant some veggies or flowers.

 

There are times when I don't even leave my property for five days to a week. If I have all I need why go anywhere?

 

And yes, I have my defensive weapons but no one sees them unless I invite them into my house. (Actually, they are also a hobby.)

 

Yes, I realize that the chapter is idealistic thinking. And that there are too many people on the planet for such a life to be possible in most places and for most people. But still ...

[Jeff]

Yes, very nice. Also nice to see some more activity in the TTC section.

[Mark Saltveit]

I'm torn about this passage -- the small town ideal seems nice on paper, but in real life just trying taking away the man's Ford F150 (and increasingly, internet access) and you've got a real problem. Also, there's a striking correlation between a lot of toxic thought (bigotry, conspiracy theories, addictions, survivalism) and this kind of isolation. 40 years ago people would have linked this to hippie communes, but they had a different set of problems.

 

The point about the original meaning being "funeral vessels" not "weapons" is very interesting -- it makes this about ambition to conquer other nations, not knowledge of the world. Could there be a new synthesis of rural simplicity with global communication via the Internet? Could the Internet itself be considered a sort of electronic Tao?

[ChiDragon]

The message was delivered with the indication that one is to maintain a peace of mind by living a simple life without competing with the world. A Taoist have elected to follow this principle by secluding in an isolated mountain was for this purpose. People who think this is boring because they were exposed and too much attached to the modern way of life.

Edited February 20, 2014 by ChiDragon