Mark Saltveit Posted February 21, 2014 "without competing with the world" -- nicely put. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 21, 2014 "without competing with the world" -- nicely put. Yes, that is a beautiful concept, isn't it? I have never been a person of competition. But I have mostly tried to do the best I could with what I attempted to do. And the concept fits well with the chapter too. Why compete when we already have enough? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted February 22, 2014 Communal harmony in issues of life and death. It is simplicity among the group. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Saltveit Posted February 23, 2014 xiejia: maybe I could regard my house as a small country. You must have a large house! I regard my house as a small house. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 23, 2014 I regard my house as a small house. That is an interesting statement. I ask: What is there outside your house that would bring you more peace & contentment? In fact: What is there outside yourself that would bring you more peace and contentment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted February 23, 2014 You must have a large house! I regard my house as a small house. Perhaps xiejia was literally meant what was in the quote from Marblehead: Yes, small countries with few people - or small villages so everyone knows everyone and they are self disciplined. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted February 23, 2014 The point about the original meaning being "funeral vessels" not "weapons" is very interesting -- it makes this about ambition to conquer other nations, not knowledge of the world. I went back to look at this particular phrase and I see why he said as such... Ren Qi is based on the MWD-B text...(literally, People's device / tool / utensil) but this has a very flexible meaning and the context must drive it. The idea of funeral vessels comes from Confucian usage of the same phrase in regards to funeral issues... but one then cannot overlook the older MWD-A phrase which is Ren Zhi Qi and is found in casting of yarrow sticks for divination... The Beida has the most interesting exchange (or typo?) where Qi is not device but rather breath! From Heshang Gong onward (to include Wang Bi and Fu Yi), they drop the Ren (people) and the meaning gets the more common many utensils. Chan mentions another alternative of the meaning of 'talents' but feels this is not correct by those who follow it. The only thing going for a funeral meaning is the next line mentions life and death but it is not necessary, IMO... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Saltveit Posted February 24, 2014 Very interesting, thanks. I wish I knew Classical Chinese. Marblehead: I was making a cheap joke actually, my house is bigger than I need, but since you asked: What is there outside your house that would bring you more peace & contentment? The outside, pretty much. If I spent more time in it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 24, 2014 Marblehead: I was making a cheap joke actually, my house is bigger than I need, but since you asked: The outside, pretty much. If I spent more time in it. Hehehe. I pretty much figured that but I wanted to play along. And I would agree, when we are already living a full life we don't seem to be able to find enough time to do the things we would like to do or spend more time with them. I lived that life until I fully retired. Now I have more time and more freedom. I guess that is a perfect reason why we need take care of our body and mind as we age. We want to be able to enjoy the grey years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted February 24, 2014 CHAPTER 80 A small village has fewer people. Within the village there are machines that can work ten to a thousand times harder than man. But they are not needed. In a small village, the people work together. They use their labour to sow and grow food. Their time is spent naturally on this occupation. They live in harmony with nature, and the Ten Thousand Things. So being in harmony, they return to the state of the uncarved block of wood; simple, honest and straightforward. The people take death seriously and so they strengthen their bodies, and do not travel great distances. They remain at one. Being at one they have no need for boats and carriages. Being simple and possessing very little, they have no need for weapons, so they don't display them. They return to craft in place of writing. Their food is plain but good, their clothes simple but strong and warm, their houses safe and secure. They are happy in their ways, for they live without interference, and too many laws. So they do not intrude upon their neighbours. They live in peace and grow old and die in harmony with nature, and the Ten Thousand Things. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 24, 2014 Hi Flowing Hands, I actually like your translation (presentation) of this chapter. It is closer, IMO, to reality as I have observed it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
