Ch'an Buddhism

[lifeforce]

Maybe I'm softening up a little, because at one point, I'd run a mile when the word Buddhism was mentioned.

It conjured up images of rules/behavior and authority figures that I'd be uncomfortable with.

It's not that I didn't like or even understand the topics debated, I just thought it was something incompatible to my life, and sort of discarded all ideas relating to it's study and practice.

With my reading and contemplating of the Hsin hsin ming, which I see as a bridge between the Dao and Dharma, I see a lot of value in pursuing the path to Buddhahood.

Which brings me to Ch'an, which I am finding to be utterly profound, rooted in Chinese culture, but at the same time, flexible enough to be practiced by anyone, anywhere and in any life situation.

I've even started corresponding with a monk on the other side of the world who is helping me with my path.

So, it's time to eat a big ol' slice of humble pie and to apologize to anyone who I may have upset in dialog with Buddhists on the forums.

Sorry to you all.

[konchog uma]

I was once an ardent daoist who thought that buddhism was silly too!

 

But little by little, the big B wore me down. hahahaha good thing too! Now i have an awesome foundation of purity on which to build my practice.

 

The thing i like most about Chan is Da Mo's idea of just not being offended by the dirt of the world. I am always catching myself being offended, and am always going back to his saying that and realizing "oh right i have a choice". My life is so much easier when i practice that.

 

to me the virtue of daoism is gaining freedom by removing blockages energetically, and the virtue of buddhism is gaining freedom by removing them psychologically, which triggers the body to just release them. I think that when the B and the D combine, an awesome synergy happens. I hope it happens in your life too!

 

The virtue of Chan is that Da Mo was into the energetic approach too! I have been practicing a muscle/tendon change and am looking forward to the day when I am ready to learn bone marrow and brain washing technique!

[Seth Ananda]

I was once an ardent daoist who thought that buddhism was silly too!

 

But little by little, the big B wore me down. hahahaha good thing too! Now i have an awesome foundation of purity on which to build my practice.

 

The thing i like most about Chan is Da Mo's idea of just not being offended by the dirt of the world. I am always catching myself being offended, and am always going back to his saying that and realizing "oh right i have a choice". My life is so much easier when i practice that.

 

to me the virtue of daoism is gaining freedom by removing blockages energetically, and the virtue of buddhism is gaining freedom by removing them psychologically, which triggers the body to just release them. I think that when the B and the D combine, an awesome synergy happens. I hope it happens in your life too!

 

The virtue of Chan is that Da Mo was into the energetic approach too! I have been practicing a muscle/tendon change and am looking forward to the day when I am ready to learn bone marrow and brain washing technique!

Cool guys, thanks!

Tell us more! Observations, inspirations, good links, good teachers/centers, books?

[C T]

 

With my reading and contemplating of the Hsin hsin ming, which I see as a bridge between the Dao and Dharma, I see a lot of value in pursuing the path to Buddhahood.

Which brings me to Ch'an, which I am finding to be utterly profound, rooted in Chinese culture, but at the same time, flexible enough to be practiced by anyone, anywhere and in any life situation.

 

 

 

What has passed shall remain in the past... no need to feel bad. I'm sure we all have our little imperfections to polish up, and should first look at them before attempting to expertly scrutinize others'.

 

May there always be benevolence and blessings as you begin this new phase of your journey.

 

I'm glad for you....

Edited October 17, 2011 by C T

[Bubbles]

 

With my reading and contemplating of the Hsin hsin ming, which I see as a bridge between the Dao and Dharma, I see a lot of value in pursuing the path to Buddhahood.

Which brings me to Ch'an, which I am finding to be utterly profound, rooted in Chinese culture, but at the same time, flexible enough to be practiced by anyone, anywhere and in any life situation.

 

 

Same as you. After being in Buddhism for some time I quit to Daoism but now I find Chinese pragmatism very skillful in taking the best of both in Ch'an.

 

_/\_

[ChiDragon]

 

The thing i like most about Chan is Da Mo's idea of just not being offended by the dirt of the world. I am always catching myself being offended, and am always going back to his saying that and realizing "oh right i have a choice". My life is so much easier when i practice that.

 

Would you still be offended if the word "dirt" changed to "dust"....???

[konchog uma]

Would you still be offended if the word "dirt" changed to "dust"....???

 

of course not

 

semantics are silly, i don't see your point sir

[Harmonious Emptiness]

In my experience, however unimportant yet true nonetheless, Zen helped me to flow through rough waters without getting pinned to the jagged boulders that would have otherwise caught me. It is direct and straight to the point, providing a direct experience of the philosophies, it is about knowing the mind of Buddha, and the practice focuses on that first.

 

Most sutras, it might be said, focus on seeing the world and living in a way that allows for this mind to be. It maybe was more simple to become a monk in India than in China and Japan, so the monks there focused on the most direct route available which was, or is, sitting with no particular purpose and being aware of where you are with no rejection or grasping of the moment.

 

There is no-one who cannot do so and there is no other mind to know but open awareness..

 

this is the mind that we leave behind when we enter states of anger, greed, covetousness, envy, pride, deuling with dualism, and generally loosing charge of our own energy, emotions, beliefs, resulting in us forgetting that we have everything we need, want, and are searching for, our radiant jewel of Awareness, residing in the mind that is always there.

 

Especially as a Westerner, I find that Zen is often presented from the perspective of: "in 30 seconds how can the Mind be pointed to?" This may seem commodified to some, but finding it in the rush of modern day life has parallels with doing so in Feudal Era Japan, but what they lacked in time and safety, we lack in peace and quiet.

[lifeforce]

After some extensive reading, meditation and contemplation, I've come to the conclusion that Buddhism isn't for me, in any of it's forms.

I like some of it, but dislike a lot more of it.

I may be wrong, but it seems more like an escapism from life's challenges and not an embracing of them.

To detach from the senses and emotions, to me, is to become more like a robot and less like a human being.

I'm sure there are millions worldwide who benefit from these teachings, but I find them more suited to people who have cut themselves off from regular living, such as monks and nuns.

These are just my own findings, by the way, after looking into myself. I don't mean to offend anyone.

[konchog uma]

After some extensive reading, meditation and contemplation, I've come to the conclusion that Buddhism isn't for me, in any of it's forms.

I like some of it, but dislike a lot more of it.

I may be wrong, but it seems more like an escapism from life's challenges and not an embracing of them.

To detach from the senses and emotions, to me, is to become more like a robot and less like a human being.

I'm sure there are millions worldwide who benefit from these teachings, but I find them more suited to people who have cut themselves off from regular living, such as monks and nuns.

These are just my own findings, by the way, after looking into myself. I don't mean to offend anyone.

 

most buddhism has nothing to do with the way buddha was, like christianity has nothing to do with the life of christ. I like the fusion of bon shamanism with vajrayana that became tibetan buddhism, and i also like vajrayana in its pure form, both as a philosophy and a set of practices. If i were in the himalayas i might make a fine sadhu in the sahajayana tradition, but it might drive me crazy who knows. And while tendai and mikkyo have a lot of great practices, good luck finding a legitimate teacher. Tendai practitioners complain about "pretendai" ... daoism needs a similar pun! hahaha all i can think of is "doh-ism" in reference of homer simpson.. i'll keep working on it.. aaaanyway

 

i agree with you, most of it (orthodox buddhism) can take a long walk. But thats just me, and i'm glad so many people find benefit to it as well. Im just chiming in cause i'm a practicing buddhist who is glad for it every day but still feels repulsed by the orthodoxy.

[deci belle]

According to the time, do what you can when you can, using whatever works best for the situation! Yay!!❤

[forestofclarity]

A lot of people are misled (in my mind) into the same conclusion you draw here from Buddhist teaching. I've been told it is a common misperception in Western monasteries.

 

But Buddhist teaching is like peanuts. It can taste good, or make you sick, depending on who you are and how you take it.

 

To detach from the senses and emotions, to me, is to become more like a robot and less like a human being.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I guess it's kind of like "first there is a mountain, then there is not mountain, then there is." This can describe Emptiness and Form, but also correlates to this experience. First seeing through the emotions so that they do not rule the person, then letting them arise and pass freely they don't go so high or low, but are still present, and pleasant, nonetheless

[lifeforce]

Maybe I've come to these conclusions too quickly then.

I think part of the problem is that I have started to read a lot of Buddhist literature in a short space of time. I may be confusing things.

I dearly would like to give it another go.

Any suggestions ?

[konchog uma]

Maybe I've come to these conclusions too quickly then.

I think part of the problem is that I have started to read a lot of Buddhist literature in a short space of time. I may be confusing things.

I dearly would like to give it another go.

Any suggestions ?

 

Vajrayana.

 

and buddhist qigong. (I love the yijinjing) Breathing with the diaphram, dantian, and perineum while doing anything (and everything) is great. I like buddhist practices, but for philosophy and literature, stick with the classics, cause the more modern the scholar, the more convoluted the nonsense. Read the dhammapada and just focus on that in small bites til youre done with it.

 

hahaha buddhist lit will do that to you btw, look out.

Edited November 25, 2011 by anamatva

[Harmonious Emptiness]

As the same ol story, Buddhism is about the practice(s): meditation, presence/mindfulness/awareness. The quote in your signature is a good indication as well for how to practice Buddhism .

 

It's true that much of the writing is for monks. Most monks don't even follow them all, however, and some laymen might even follow some of them more closely. Take what works and work towards the center. It's like trying to lift the perfect piece of pie, or taking off a sticker. You have to start around the edges very gently so that it doesn't break; as the edges open up you work more towards the center without force; then when you've gotten there you can get in a bit closer. I guess it's kind of like picking up a girl too (lol), or approaching a wild animal.

 

So start with what you're doing right now. Eventually the rest will probably reveal itself as a natural continuation. It's amazing how we come across the teachings that we need at just the right time that we are ready for them, if we're looking for them.

[deci belle]

Take what works and work towards the center. It's like trying to lift the perfect piece of pie, or taking off a sticker. You have to start around the edges very gently so that it doesn't break; as the edges open up you work more towards the center without force; then when you've gotten there you can get in a bit closer. I guess it's kind of like picking up a girl too (lol), or approaching a wild animal.

Ooh lala!!❤

 

Accepting where you are as basically good and taking to the beneficial while eliminating the false is a life-long path— even buddhas are no different in this. As the path progresses, one's emphasis naturally evolves. Apply your understanding strategically during the critical passages— your use of the vessel best suited for the situation is the hallmark of a seasoned wayfarer.

 

Your renewed interest in buddhism is indicative of your authentic readiness to enter this.

 

Ultimately, the focus is beyond any teaching. Complete Reality is not an idea~ The teachings of the world honored traditions are a means to discovery of your true nature, which is not a person, much less "buddhist".

 

(ed note: dang'd one-letter typo in penultimate paragraph)

Edited November 29, 2011 by deci belle

[Harmonious Emptiness]

edit---

 

 

"Accepting where you are as basically good and taking to the beneficial while eliminating the false is a life-long path— "

 

this is how I feel about the journey as well.. The purpose is continual refinement. Pushing things that don't work before we are ready for them, though we can do them as practice, it's best not to fool ourselves and then get frustrated when realizing that we have not progressed to the level that we may have been able to function at for some time. An example being unconditional compassion, or freedom from the bondage of negative emotions. If I try to suppress my inner voice too much then it will eventually come out with a vengance and jeapardize any progress.

 

So while I work on these things, I still give some leeway. It's like push-hands almost. You have to give them a little so you can push them out of the way, while pushing directly against them is too exhausting for the long-haul. So until I wear them down, I'm still going to let them exhaust themselves a bit so that I don't become exhausted. However, I'm still in the game. Of course, giving in all the time or too much would be defeat me, game over. Knowing limitations is important so as not to lose in the first round.

 

So to make it, we need to do what we can without exhausting ourselves (other than the odd exceptions I would say). You know.. get comfortable with 3 rounds first, then maybe 5 rounds, and keep working your way up. We can't lose faith just because we're not ready for 12 rounds, but pushing ourselves is necessary to get even up to 10, or 5, or even 3...

 

If you want to get into it there's plenty of stuff you can do for 3 rounds at least in the meantime.

 

I'm no professional athlete, but I'm pretty sure this makes some kind of sense anyway...

 

Just like boxing makes us healthier and more energetic, these practices benefit us in our daily life, and help us see the right way to handle our emotions, difficulties, decisions, and so many other potential disasters that we face every day by developing the strength and flexibility available to anyone who wants to practice.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[deci belle]

So while I work on these things, I still give some leeway. It's like push-hands almost. You have to give them a little so you can push them out of the way, while pushing directly against them is too exhausting for the long-haul. So until I wear them down, I'm still going to let them exhaust themselves a bit so that I don't become exhausted. However, I'm still in the game. Of course, giving in all the time or too much would be defeat me, game over. Knowing limitations is important so as not to lose in the first round.

 

It is a strategy of inconceivable attrition, isn't it! Also it sounds like "in order to take, one must first give."

 

End Game

 

 

Gold star

White rose

In my head

Snow blows

 

No heaven above

No earth below

No opponent ahead

No ruler in tow

 

Empty chair

Empty days

Empty book

Untold ways

 

Stopping short

Fitting in

Going along

Blazing within

 

Ruthless life

Ruthless art

Ruthless dream

Female heart

 

Assessing chaos

In a single turn

Ruthless compassion

Does not burn

 

So while the world provides the hands to match ours, we practice being the guest matching hands with the host. The world doesn't know, so "not knowing" passes through host and guest. As potential is lost on the world of karmic evolution, matching hands is absorbing potential by not speculating in characteristics of phenomena. Accomplishing not knowing in the matching of immediate acquiescence to potential in phantom situations is arrow points meeting in mutual response.

 

Ruthless compassion is the Virtue of the Receptive; the female heart is a ruthless art wherein one does not manufacture conditions. The rule is victory depends on the opponent.

[Niklas]

For those who want to discover Chan Buddhism you should read books written by or Thich Nhat Hanh or Adyashanti. Or listen to their talks:

 

Thich Nhat Hanh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aubF7v-MlMM

 

Adyashanti:

Edited November 29, 2011 by Niklas

[Niklas]

l

Edited November 29, 2011 by Niklas

[Harmonious Emptiness]

+3 on the Adyashanti video. Great! Very clear style, puns intended + not intended...

[lifeforce]

..

Edited January 1, 2012 by lifeforce