Freeing ourselves from Tao

[Everything]

There are no words for Tao. I do not understand it, my mind cannot grasp it. Yet this nothing puts me at peace. All storms make way for sunshine and rain is brought to drought.

I cannot give or show Tao to other people. I can only hint at Tao or use Tao to do good or bad stuff. For example, I use Tao to calm down people or show them the way in that moment. Using the Tao to calm my self down so that I can calm others down or using the Tao to create energy you can spend in good or useful ways.

 

We can use Tao for many things, good or bad. We can keep using it all our lifes, everyone can. It is a great way to develop your body.

 

It seems that the real spiritual developement starts by not using Tao anymore. To embrace non action and move closer to Tao.

 

The more things we want to do the more things are left undone. Not in a way that we want to do them, but in a way that things should not be left undone. Everything at all times should be done at the same time.

 

Yet when we stop using Tao we actually become Tao ourselves! There is no end to these cycles it seems. The moment you try to end the cycle, you create a new one instantaneously.

 

We are all trapped in Tao. Why? Because it has a name. When the creator of a mirror is a mirror, there is no knowing where Reality is. Whatever happened, we're trapped here and we're trapped in the next.

 

Do you know how to free yourself from this fractal?

[Protector]

I am one with the Tao.

but when I say that, I stop being one with it

[Birch]

"free myself?"

Yeah, i've compared the (i think that's what it is) post-heaven trigram changes to a dharma wheel. But have you noticed the "empty" centre of the wheel?

I've figured (so far) that myself neither wants freed nor off the wheel. But that's about as far as i've figured so far. I'm assuming if i wish to figure out more then i will at some point.

However, IMO/IME all that seems a bit silly for the limited person i am (not derogatory btw, i mean "limited" as in i'm not a car, nor a lawn, nor a man, nor a tree. That sort of thing.

[Patrick Brown]

Drawing distinctions just polarises and entraps the mind in duality. Duality is an illusion but the mind persists in it's striving to cancel out the illusion with the illusion. Hence why the sage is like a little child.

 

The yin yang diagram explains this. There is no black and white there is only the flow / cycle and then there is just the circle with a point in the middle and then there is just a circle, or perhaps just a dot in the void. Ultimately there is nothing but the consciousness of the growing foetus reappears cascading down building layers of illusion.

 

So what is the answer? We flow from nothing and flow to nothing, it's just the flow. We are all crossing the ocean of samsara.

 

"Saṃsāra or Sangsara (संसार) is a Sanskrit and Pāli term, which translates as "continuous movement" or "continuous flowing" and, in Buddhism, refers to the concept of a cycle of birth (jāti), and consequent decay and death (jarāmaraṇa), in which all beings in the universe participate, and which can only be escaped through enlightenment."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra_(Buddhism)

Edited October 19, 2011 by Patrick Brown

[Marblehead]

An interesting question, really. This applies to all belief system, not just Taoism.

 

Sometimes in life it is best to remain silent, think nothing and just be.

 

When we 'just be' it is then that we are at one with our Self and therefore at one with Tao.

[suninmyeyes]

 

Sometimes in life it is best to remain silent, think nothing and just be.

 

Yes it is like that Marbles.

[konchog uma]

There are no words for Tao. I do not understand it, my mind cannot grasp it. Yet this nothing puts me at peace. All storms make way for sunshine and rain is brought to drought.

I cannot give or show Tao to other people. I can only hint at Tao or use Tao to do good or bad stuff. For example, I use Tao to calm down people or show them the way in that moment. Using the Tao to calm my self down so that I can calm others down or using the Tao to create energy you can spend in good or useful ways.

 

We can use Tao for many things, good or bad. We can keep using it all our lifes, everyone can. It is a great way to develop your body.

 

It seems that the real spiritual developement starts by not using Tao anymore. To embrace non action and move closer to Tao.

 

The more things we want to do the more things are left undone. Not in a way that we want to do them, but in a way that things should not be left undone. Everything at all times should be done at the same time.

 

Yet when we stop using Tao we actually become Tao ourselves! There is no end to these cycles it seems. The moment you try to end the cycle, you create a new one instantaneously.

 

We are all trapped in Tao. Why? Because it has a name. When the creator of a mirror is a mirror, there is no knowing where Reality is. Whatever happened, we're trapped here and we're trapped in the next.

 

Do you know how to free yourself from this fractal?

 

i think you are seeing Tao as a conceptualizable thing, which it amn't. I am with marbles on the silence thing. You can't understand life or why we are one with this matrix, just accept it and move through it gracefully and with integrity.

 

There is only the freedom to accept that the fractal is reality. You can become one with reality but you can never be an outside observer. So don't try to "use Tao" just know that energy is infinite and the cycles do not actually stop in all likelihood they just keep in orbit. Acceptance of our own infinitesimal nature and of the VAST magnitude of the mystery is the first step to "freedom" which is a really relative concept anyway.

 

Don't worry about freedom, or tao, or cycles, just stop worrying. Its a choice to worry, so make a choice not to, and just rest in humility and gratitude for the chance to experience life. Not because i said so or because its "true" or not but because you will feel a lot better by doing that, thats all. Try it out.

[Aaron]

There are no words for Tao. I do not understand it, my mind cannot grasp it. Yet this nothing puts me at peace. All storms make way for sunshine and rain is brought to drought.

I cannot give or show Tao to other people. I can only hint at Tao or use Tao to do good or bad stuff. For example, I use Tao to calm down people or show them the way in that moment. Using the Tao to calm my self down so that I can calm others down or using the Tao to create energy you can spend in good or useful ways.

 

We can use Tao for many things, good or bad. We can keep using it all our lifes, everyone can. It is a great way to develop your body.

 

It seems that the real spiritual developement starts by not using Tao anymore. To embrace non action and move closer to Tao.

 

The more things we want to do the more things are left undone. Not in a way that we want to do them, but in a way that things should not be left undone. Everything at all times should be done at the same time.

 

Yet when we stop using Tao we actually become Tao ourselves! There is no end to these cycles it seems. The moment you try to end the cycle, you create a new one instantaneously.

 

We are all trapped in Tao. Why? Because it has a name. When the creator of a mirror is a mirror, there is no knowing where Reality is. Whatever happened, we're trapped here and we're trapped in the next.

 

Do you know how to free yourself from this fractal?

 

 

Hello Everything,

 

I guess the first point I'd make is that what you're describing is your concept of something that you call the Tao. The nameless can't be named or described, at least not adequately. I think of it as the stillness that exists within everything. We aren't aware of it, but it is there and we can never be separate from it, as the tao teh ching says, it's the mother of all things and what we can do is understand manifestations of the mother on this earth. I'm not even sure if understanding the manifestations really helps you to understand the mother at all, rather that comes from directly experiencing what is nameless, the stillness that many people in numerous spiritual practices talk about.

 

If you're seeking escape from the fractal, I have good news for you, experience the stillness and you will see the transient nature of the material, what you're experiencing in this world. Just as our cells are replaced in our bodies, everything in the universe will eventually die and be reborn as well. When you become aware of the stillness, this is the first step to transcending the material and returning to the stillness.

 

I guess the key is to understand that you are everything, even as you are you. If you cease to be, everything exists, so there really is no end to "us", only what we consider the "I" or "Me" to be.

 

Aaron

Edited October 19, 2011 by Twinner

[zanshin]

be a jellyfish.

[Owledge]

We are all trapped in Tao. Why? Because it has a name. When the creator of a mirror is a mirror, there is no knowing where Reality is. Whatever happened, we're trapped here and we're trapped in the next.

 

Do you know how to free yourself from this fractal?

By not caring?

 

 

Yes it is like that Marbles.

You think?

[Jetsun]

As soon as you observe something impartially and withdraw your identification from it so you can see that it is not "I" then you are freed from it, it's energy which was frozen by identification is then liberated to harmonise with the Tao and return to your natural spirit, at least temporarily until you get sucked back into the hypnotism of life and become identified with it once more.

 

Practice this enough and maybe it is possible to become free completely and become one of those masters who are said to be in the world but not of it.

[Everything]

Thanks for replies everyone. They're all great.

 

 

I think so I am. I think not so I am not?

Edited October 21, 2011 by Everything

[Cosmo]

We can use Tao

 

Using the order of things for our own benefit has gotten this planet to the disheveled state it is in now.

 

Perhaps it is time to let nature use us.

[Everything]

Drawing distinctions just polarises and entraps the mind in duality. Duality is an illusion but the mind persists in it's striving to cancel out the illusion with the illusion. Hence why the sage is like a little child.

 

The yin yang diagram explains this. There is no black and white there is only the flow / cycle and then there is just the circle with a point in the middle and then there is just a circle, or perhaps just a dot in the void. Ultimately there is nothing but the consciousness of the growing foetus reappears cascading down building layers of illusion.

 

So what is the answer? We flow from nothing and flow to nothing, it's just the flow. We are all crossing the ocean of samsara.

 

"Saṃsāra or Sangsara (संसार) is a Sanskrit and Pāli term, which translates as "continuous movement" or "continuous flowing" and, in Buddhism, refers to the concept of a cycle of birth (jāti), and consequent decay and death (jarāmaraṇa), in which all beings in the universe participate, and which can only be escaped through enlightenment."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra_(Buddhism)

How do we become enlightened? Or how do we realize our light?

[Cosmo]

How do we become enlightened? Or how do we realize our light?

 

Sansara is a mental process. The constant process of thought. Never ending. You are forever trapped.

 

For the Hindu's this manifests itself in the belief of rebirth.

 

Englightenment is liberation from this process.

 

How to get there varies person to person and belief to belief. But since you are on Tao Bums.com, I would read chapter 2 of the Chuang Tzu.

 

If you are willing to look beyond Taoism, read the Bhagavad Gita.

 

Look up Karma yoga.

 

Etc.

[Marblehead]

You think?

 

Sometimes.

[Marblehead]

As soon as you observe something impartially and withdraw your identification from it so you can see that it is not "I" then you are freed from it, it's energy which was frozen by identification is then liberated to harmonise with the Tao and return to your natural spirit, at least temporarily until you get sucked back into the hypnotism of life and become identified with it once more.

 

I like that. To say more would require a lot of deep thought and I'm not in the mood right now.

[Patrick Brown]

How do we become enlightened? Or how do we realize our light?

 

 

Enlightenment may be understood as an awakening through insight and understanding. So in conversation you explain something to someone and they are said to have been enlightened i.e They have been given the key to understand something. Spiritual enlightenment is similar except that the key relates to all life consciousness and existence. There are many examples of discourses from Jesus, The Buddha, Krishna etc that are an attempt at mass enlightenment but these are generally ambiguous and confusing to most people. The reason exoteric teachings are not more explicit is that without doing the groundwork people are prone to misinterpret and not fully grasp what they have been taught which can just lead to more confusion. So exoteric teachings generally only hint at enlightenment while conveying some moralistic narrative.

 

I won't talk about esoteric teachings as it just gets too complex but I will touch upon spiritual practices. By spiritual practices we mean meditation, tai chi, yoga, dance etc. These practices help the individual to experience nirvanic bliss, or whatever you wish to call it, but they often don't lead to enlightenment. As I've said on a different thread not many people can become enlightened but all people can experience nirvana. So many practices exist that lead to a spiritual awakening but this is not enlightenment because there is a lack of understanding. So all beings will enter nirvana but only a few will have become truly enlightened.

 

It's worth mentioning the doctrine of the two enlightenments which consists of the initial realisation and then the practice. So enlightened beings engage in spiritual practices which allow then to experience nirvanic bliss. It's these practices which are passed on to the masses so that they may partake of bliss. These practices are termed "Upaya" in Tibetan Buddhism (Mahayana Buddhism) and are not specific to Buddhism as many teachers from around the world devise methods and techniques to help people experience bliss. So experiencing bliss is not full enlightenment but many will think it is which is of course fine as most people can't become enlightened.

 

 

Upaya (Sanskrit: उपाय upāya, Tib. ཐབས་, tab ; Wyl. thabs ^[1], "Expedient Means" or "pedagogy") ^[2] is a term in Mahayana Buddhism which is derived from the root upa√i and refers to a means that goes or brings you up to some goal, often the goal of Enlightenment. The term is often used with kaushalya (कौशल्य, "cleverness"); upaya-kaushalya means roughly "skill in means". Upaya-kaushalya is a concept which emphasizes that practitioners may use their own specific methods or techniques that fit the situation in order to gain Enlightenment. The implication is that even if a technique, view, etc., is not ultimately "true" in the highest sense, it may still be an expedient practice to perform or view to hold; i.e., it may bring the practitioner closer to true realization anyway. The exercise of skill to which it refers, the ability to adapt one's message to the audience, is of enormous importance in the Pali Canon.^[3]

Translations of upāya "expedient means" include Tibetan: ཐབས་ (thabs),^[4] and Chinese fāngbiàn or Japanese hōben 方便 "convenient; expedient; make things convenient (for somebody); do (somebody) a favor".^[5]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upaya

Edited October 21, 2011 by Patrick Brown

[Marblehead]

Hi Patrick,

 

Nice post and I do understand that you had to post it from your perspective and understanding.

 

Good share!!!

[Patrick Brown]

[Marblehead]

[Patrick Brown]

More about Upaya:

 

Upaya

The Vajrayana is based on the concept of "skilful means" (Sanskrit: upaya) as formulated in Mahayana Buddhism. It is a system of lineages, whereby those who successfully receive anEmpowerment (Tibetan Buddhism) or sometimes called initiation (permission to practice) are seen to share in the mindstream of the realisation of a particular skillful means of the vajraMaster. In the Vajrayana these skilful means mainly relate to tantric, Mahamudra or Dzogchen practices. Vajrayana teaches that the Vajrayana techniques provide an accelerated path toenlightenment.

 

More about secret teachings:

 

Esoteric transmission

Main article: Esoteric transmissionVajrayana Buddhism is esoteric, in the sense that the transmission of certain teachings only occurs directly from teacher to student during an initiationor empowerment and cannot be simply learned from a book. Many techniques are also commonly said to be secret, but some Vajrayana teachers have responded that secrecy itself is not important and only a side-effect of the reality that the techniques have no validity outside the teacher-student lineage.^[29] In order to engage in Vajrayana practice, a student should have received such an initiation or permission.

 

Reginald Ray writes that "If these techniques are not practiced properly, practitioners may harm themselves physically and mentally. In order to avoid these dangers, the practice is kept "secret" outside the teacher/student relationship. Secrecy and the commitment of the student to the vajra guru are aspects of the samaya (Tib. damtsig), or "sacred bond", that protects both the practitioner and the integrity of the teachings."^[19]

 

The teachings may also be considered "self-secret", meaning that even if they were to be told directly to a person, that person would not necessarily understand the teachings without proper context. In this way the teachings are "secret" to the minds of those who are not following the path with more than a simple sense of curiosity.

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrayana

[Patrick Brown]

[Everything]

More about secret teachings:

That its secret doesn't make me not want to learn about it.

 

Any leaks on the internet on Vajrayana?

[Patrick Brown]

That its secret doesn't make me not want to learn about it.

 

Any leaks on the internet on Vajrayana?

 

Not that I'm aware of but there's plenty of stuff from the anti-Buddhist camp that tries to convince us they're a bunch of perverts! This is of course very doubtful but there's always a few bad eggs within any monastic group with the Catholic church leading the way!

 

Anyway as the quotes above point out it wouldn't do anyone any good to know what they get up to as without the right understanding it would just seem like nonsense. Hey perhaps they would seem perverse to many hence why it's kept secret.