exorcist_1699 Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) People think that Taosit qigong is to teach people how to polish qi, which is unlikely to be true ; Taoist qigong, to the final anaylsis, is to tell people how to polish a Mind because what kind of qi we get is porportional to what kind of a mind we can attain . Before we can get this great Mind , we have to get rid of those social interferences /limitations on us ; simply speaking , see how many criticisms we can bear, how many mockings we can ignore , how much loneliness we can sustain ... etc. These are basic requirements , if even such minor barriers you can't pass , then please stop any talking of qigong for what is following are much dangerous and severe stuff... Then , we have to disentangle ourselves from the prevailing ideology; in the modern society, it is mainly the dominant scientism ; you definitely can't depend on such a scientific mind,which follows strict logical reasoning and instrumental intelligence to achieve it ; What we make use of is the meta-Mind(元神) . A scientific mind, even equipped with tons of psychological / neuro-anatomical knowledge and means , can't understand the meta-Mind or qi ; The world of qi can only be opened by a metal-Mind for they are the same nature , on the same ,high level of spiritual plane ; As a taoist saying tells us : " It is because they are the same nature that makes the gong possible ".(" 同類易施功 ") For example, although baboon look likes humans, hardly can you start from the mind of it to study human's mind, they are just different in nature and distinct on distant planes of spirit. Edited October 20, 2011 by exorcist_1699 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted October 20, 2011 At last an argument i like:-) I'd still like to be able to shoot beams of qi out of my third eye but I'm having trouble enough with untangling the other stuff. Anyways, my take on this one is that what you're talking about would more easily for me be a felt illustration of the network. But that sounds a bit goofy i think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zanshin Posted October 20, 2011 People think that Taosit qigong is to teach people how to polish qi, which is unlikely to be true ; Taoist qigong, to the final anaylsis, is to tell people how to polish a Mind because what kind of qi we get is porportional to what kind of a mind we can attain . Before we can get this great Mind , we have to get rid of those social interferences /limitations on us ; simply speaking , see how many criticisms we can bear, how many mockings we can ignore , how much loneliness we can sustain ... etc. These are basic requirements , if even such minor barriers you can't pass , then please stop any talking of qigong for what is following are much dangerous and severe stuff... Mind over matter, or if you don't mind it doesn't matter? Things like criticism, mocking and loneliness don't bother me like they used to. No longer feel separation even if I am alone and criticism can be more helpful than praise. Mocking is rather mean, but brings more compassion for the mocker than shame. But I don't feel sensitivity to these things decreased due to force of will or actively squashing my ego, but sort of faded away somehow. But are compassion and connection to other beings are of the mind or of the heart? So 1st dantien, 2nd dantien and then perhaps mind can become clear and brilliant? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
starhawk Posted October 20, 2011 For example, although baboon look likes humans, hardly can you start from the mind of it to study human's mind, they are just different in nature and distinct on distant planes of spirit. What about monkeys? What plane do they exist on? What about Monkey King ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zanshin Posted October 20, 2011 Reason is great for thinking about reasonable things, unreasonable things can not be understood by reason. Of course there is no reason to understand the unreasonable, but it is madness not to. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted October 21, 2011 I liked Deci-belle's suggestion too:-) DB, even if you can see through things, does it make any difference? I dunno, I guess I'm sort of tired. I was going to add "of all of this" but I'm just tired:-) Anyways, the people who aren't "refining" their mind seem to be taking part in it all a hell of a lot more than i am with all this mindfulness business. I'm not concerned. I just noticed it. So, better be getting back to that third-eye workout then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exorcist_1699 Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) ... So 1st dantien, 2nd dantien and then perhaps mind can become clear and brilliant? Not understand what you really mean here .General speaking, male starts from the lower dantian and accomplish immortality at their upper dantian; female starts from the middle dantian and accomplish immortality also at the upper dantian; You accumulate qi to a certain amount and quality, then an unprecedentedly experienced clear Mind will arise from it and you will become brilliant ... Edited October 21, 2011 by exorcist_1699 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exorcist_1699 Posted October 21, 2011 At last an argument i like:-) I'd still like to be able to shoot beams of qi out of my third eye but I'm having trouble enough with untangling the other stuff. Anyways, my take on this one is that what you're talking about would more easily for me be a felt illustration of the network. But that sounds a bit goofy i think. Don't grasp what you mean here, sorry ... ; Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan Posted October 21, 2011 "you get what you put into it." "mind over matter" Truly, the mind is the first thing that has to go. Get rid of mind, and the matter soon disolves. If the mind is an obsticle, then what can you even begin to put into it? Even the smallest material obsticle becomes impassible when the mind is not strong enough to muster the will power! Why even discuss something so obvious; How can it be that such an idea isnt the first thing to be seen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exorcist_1699 Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Once again, exorcist to the rescue!!❤ .............. ............. ............ One must make observing mind with an unbroken subtle consistency in everyday ordinary affairs the work of a lifetime. This is not a matter of formal meditation or energy practice for taking vacations from "making a living". It is quite clear that we can't polish qi by relying on this daily-life ego, which is unlikely be a real one despite the fact that it is mistakenly identified by most people as real . Both Taoism and Buddhism clearly point this out . The difference is that Taoism not just tells us this fact , but further points out where the real one goes, what location and direction the real Ego/Mind is hidden after having ousted ; the emphasize on the relation between Kan and Li , in fact, is to implicitly tell us about those points. Calling the real one back , therefore , is the the main task of Taoist qigong. Edited October 22, 2011 by exorcist_1699 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zanshin Posted October 21, 2011 yeah, that's what I meant start from lower and/or middle dantien and from this arises of clarity of mind. Using will to sublimate the ego and try not to let things like criticism matter to you doesn't work so well, but as qi rises ego things that used to matter fade back of their own accord and mind becomes free. Clarify and refine your mind, but don't get rid of it. Logical thinking is a useful tool, but not a panacea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 22, 2011 Taoist qigong, to the final anaylsis, is to tell people how to polish a Mind because what kind of qi we get is porportional to what kind of a mind we can attain . You can only find the truth in inside. The search for Qi is the refinement of perception and awareness. No question about it. At last an argument i like:-) Me too It just habitually takes over unawares any fruition of underlying and incipient true intent. For an instant, for all eternity, once the break is accomplished, once conditioned consciousness is interrupted— it is interrupted forever. Allowing the ego-function to resume its proper place in our lives is the accomplishment of self-refinement. This is not a matter of formal meditation or energy practice for taking vacations from "making a living". What a post! _/\_ Just want to chime in on the high points. 1. So important to be mindful of this. And pointing this out makes us remember to bring the training of the Yi out of our meditative ritual and into our life. 2. How to make this occur? I'm pretty sure I know exactly what break you mean and I have no idea how it happened in me... How to help others??? 3. Masterful eloguence! 4. My only semantic disagreement - this is exactly meditation and energy practice, most just don't acknowledge or achieve that level of commitment. Hence the need for such enormous energy! If we are living Wu Wei then our entire life is the meditation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted October 22, 2011 Steve, i don't know how "it" happens but i read a nice thing about it being an accident and that practice was intended to make one more "accident-prone" :-) I also think though that if you compare certain "aspects" of certain practices with certain life conditions (that i figure might also be on the increase in "contemporary life") then you might find that your own life made you accident prone :-) I personally find the former pretty funny because it means to me that consciousness can't be surpressed by fiddling with people's social conditions :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 22, 2011 Steve, i don't know how "it" happens but i read a nice thing about it being an accident and that practice was intended to make one more "accident-prone" :-) I also think though that if you compare certain "aspects" of certain practices with certain life conditions (that i figure might also be on the increase in "contemporary life") then you might find that your own life made you accident prone :-) I personally find the former pretty funny because it means to me that consciousness can't be surpressed by fiddling with people's social conditions :-) Very insightful - I most certainly was recovering (or not) from a terrible and chronic "accident" that I'm certain contributed to the break. And the recovery continues (or doesn't)... that's the joke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted October 22, 2011 Very insightful - I most certainly was recovering (or not) from a terrible and chronic "accident" that I'm certain contributed to the break. And the recovery continues (or doesn't)... that's the joke Well, that's it. I think I'm just as much of an idiot with silly ideas as i was "before" i realised i was an idiot with silly ideas. It still hurts sometimes and i don't know what I'm doing. Probably something wrong as usual. Not to wave a hand over responsibility but sometimes i have no consciousness of what probably looks obvious to other people. Should i be "fixing" it all? Isn't that what buggered things up in the first place? I'm having a "duh" moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) -k- said: DB, even if you can see through things, does it make any difference? It doesn't even make any difference before one tastes true lead, real knowledge. At this point, one concretely recognizes external reality as wholly subjective. One knows one is responsible for the illusion one is experiencing. This is a preliminary operational stage described as sense returning to essence, because one becomes consciously aware of true knowledge, where conscious awareness/yin is tentatively balanced and harmonized with true knowledge of the mind of tao/yang. I would call this unrefined elixir— when firmness/other/sense is first called back to re-unite with flexibility/self/essence. One's self uses flexibility to impersonally abide in the knowledge in order to adapt to conditions. Why? Taoists call this stealing potential. This is gathering energy by not using it. Worldly beings use energy (create illusions) to go along with conditions. Enlightening beings go in reverse by not using (not speculating) in this energy. Buddhists call this saving energy. The body itself knows how to use this energy for spiritual evolution when we are unminding in everyday ordinary situations. Though we recognize thoughts and feelings, we do not validate them. We are all this sameness, this energy. The difference is in how we use it. What is seen is immediate knowledge that is keyed on potential, forever present. We are not separate in this. Though no one knows one's seeing, it is a matter of adapting appropriately and freely to the situation without projecting, oneself forever present in order to match potential. The power of nonpsychological awareness dissolves obstacles inasmuch as obstacles are like thoughts~ they dissolve when we take note of them. Still, since we do not deny characteristics and freely give of ourselves by changing along with conditions, it is in acceptance of or immediate acquiescence to conditions that allows us to stay centered without going along with conditions; going along with polluted energy in order to find out what happened. If I said …going along in order to influence… (the situation), that would imply a selfish relationship with conditions and an illustration of concentration damaged by insight. In alchemical terms this is inability to withdraw the fire. Eventually, as we slowly penetrate the influence itself— in order to get to know it, we simply enter the tao in reality. So we use conditioned, polluted karmic (created) energy in order to transcend it: we use the disease as the cure. Though this is not calculated, it is a sublime strategy. In The Art of War this is called "victory depends on the opponent". This is what I mean by seeing through things. We are not isolated, nor are we good. We just begin to learn to respond impersonally and appropriately, with gusto— with acute sensitivity to inspiration and the timing of the inevitable. After re-uniting with sameness, obviously— all is thusness. When phenomena are accepted without denying characteristics, either before or after realization, potential is the same. This is why it doesn't matter. When one has the mind to match potential, awareness and energy is a mutual response to conditions. As exorcist-1699 mentioned, when one has access to to nonoriginated mind, energy is there to meet it— so we know that energy cultivation, grafting, or mental gymnastics is not the thing. ed note: added "— with acute sensitivity to inspiration and the timing of the inevitable." Edited October 23, 2011 by deci belle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted October 23, 2011 Great post DB! I'm not quite sure that I'm wholly either side of the "not mattering". I'm sure people who know can tell. I suspect there's "bits" left over here and there. It's a messy business IMO/IME. I don't know anything about the things you mentioned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted October 24, 2011 One "thing" i don't "get" DB is to what conditions are you referring? Oh, another thing, this "illusion" idea. I don't see how there could be one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) -k- said: One "thing" i don't "get" DB is to what conditions are you referring?Oh, another thing, this "illusion" idea. I don't see how there could be one. I came on to add one thing to my last post to say that floating around in the center of the compass refers to keeping a subtle consistency in watching over one's thoughts and feelings in the midst of everyday ordinary conditions— this is the conditions I refer to, and also the illusion. We live in a dream. Our own dream. It's ok! There is no other dream (for each individual)— it is the nature of the created. It's just that the nature of perception is uncreated. This is what is us, and that is what we do with this light, unawares. It's just the way it is. But we can avail ourselves of the light, because it is us. Why? Because in this light is not only dreams of our making, but mystery upon mystery, not to mention a key to participating in everyones' dreams with awareness, objectivity, sagacity and delight. Here is the other point I wanted to add: it's in Lao Tzu chapter 16 "…preserve the utmost quiet; as myriad things act in concert, I thereby observe the Return.", can illustrate preserving a subtle concentration in the midst of the conditions one finds oneself in. The perspective of inner quiet affords the delicate sensitivity to observe the return. We breathe; alternating in succession, it is called respiration. Seasons do it, the waves coming to shore do it. The source of our universe does this and the living aware energy (potential) does this. Our own functions are modeled after this alternating rhythm. In the evolution of situations, we call this cycles of yin and yang. When breaths of potential return and you sense it~ that is called observation. When you observe the breath of creation, you gain a bit of detachment, as well as intimacy in your relationship with the world, because the nonpsychological aspect of perception is spiritual. So, floating around in the illusional, conditional ocean of our situation means we conduct ourselves with flexibility. Keeping to the center of the compass denotes the still, quiet perspective necessary to maintain equipoise within the evolving situation/condition/illusion enabling us to sense breaths of potential. It's not "out there" …it's you. As one learns to enter the mystery, the connotation of "illusion" and "conditions", loses it's ominous aura. It's just the nature of the beast. But the dragon has a pearl which we can steal.❤ ed note: added— "enabling us to sense breaths of potential. It's not "out there" …it's you." Edited October 24, 2011 by deci belle 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted October 24, 2011 Oh that. I had a direct experience with that and for a while. I was doing my very best to be the best, nicest character in everyone's dreams but I gave up. Too much work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted October 24, 2011 deci belle, your posts are a delight to read and reflect the clarity of perception. Well met. (-: warm regards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
