Qi is not our target

[deci belle]

[Birch]

Yes, it can get to be a bit much, sometimes …❤

 

exorcist_1699 said:

 

 

deci belle said:

 

 

I think I disagree that I don't want to do any refining of myself. You know, there is IME/IMO a point (or many or a risk, or many) in practice (and IMO/IME it's a pretty persistent risk/point) that a practitioner will get to where their 'unrefined' mind (= conditioned 'ego') will take them all over the map (same thing, different clothes) - and hence the smorgsbörd of practices and new teachers/new practices malarkey. This is the point at which most teachers insist on 'persistence' IME/IMO. (edited to add 'levels') IME/IMO more to the point if you have ever been through any kind of qi-gong syndrome or whatever it's called (which I know I have, not pretty) you may realise what is actually going on with that. Or you may just realise who you are really.

Edited October 26, 2011 by -K-

[Simple_Jack]

[deci belle]

It is so.❤

[LBDaoist]

Exorcist,

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I find this subject to be a very interesting one. It brings up the notion that the study of Taoism involves more than a singular focus on the cultivation of qi. That cultivation exists as a branch, not the root. The mind and our ability to turn the mind upon itself, to refine the mirror... to calm the pond... that practice leads to a greater awareness of the way.

 

I consider it like this.

 

By focusing the mind upon a notion of qi and cultivation, we distract the mind and disturb it. Yet once we clear the mind and let go of desire to cultivate qi, it becomes possible to cultivate it more fully.

 

Or to put it another way, the spirit will condense and the qi will flow naturally once the mind has been settled.

[exorcist_1699]

Hi, LBDaoist , I think you are quite right here, the issue is the relation between qi and our spirit.

 

Although qi is not our ultimate target , at initial and middle stage, it does provide great help. Just look at all other practices ,spiritual or religious they are or not , and see without the help of qi, what they appear to us :

 

1) Physical exercises or sports: without having qi initialized ,what the best they can give us is just a life span of 80~100 years ; such a short period of time , in fact, doesn't match how smart and noble a spirit we get. Strangely , in the western cultural heritage, people ,even the brightest guys, think that it is natural and a scientific fact...and, few who not succumbing to their god of scientism , are accused of being unnatural ...

 

2) Yoga : Unable to understand the role of qi playing in our bodies, it inevitably degenerates into some kind of bodily formalism .

 

 

3) Most religions and spiritual philosophies :Incapable of introducing qi into their systems means they are unable to prevent themselves from falling into the trap of mysticism or Creationism .For example , a praying or a singing of curses that can't arouse qi, in fact, leads you to nowhere ,but mysticism or groundless expectation of miracle ; On the other hand,capable of arousing qi enables you to have a framework of reference to check the effectiveness of your spiritual practices and tune them by looking into what quality of qi you get ...

 

Of course, you should repeatedly remind yourself that such a framework should not be turned into a set of shackles , some kind of attachment.

 

4) For those schools of Buddhism who accuse Taoism of attaching to something physical or an eternal life : Without qi, I wonder how they can rescue their followers from being repeatedly entangled by the " pseudo- Void " ,the most common "sickness" that most intellectuals doomed to get when they follow the Buddhist path...

 

The wisdom of Taoism is that it clearly understands the dialectical ( in Chinese term , the yin-yang relation) , interactive relation between our spirit and qi : First, we use our spirit to initialize qi , then conversely we use that qi to nourish and upgrade our spirit; with this much higher quality of spirit we further refine our qi.... up to a critical point at which we get an abrupt , clear Mind , pop-up from the very deep bottom of us, always accompanied with a "bang" or thundering ...( Shao Yong said : "地逢雷處見天根" ) then all our doubts about life , death, soul, eternity and mysticism start to dissolve..

Edited November 7, 2011 by exorcist_1699

[deci belle]

Yay, LBDaoist and exorcist-1699!!❤

[lazy cloud]

Tian Ren He Yi

[ChiDragon]

Tian Ren He Yi

 

天人合一 : Heaven and human are united as One.

[realfastcat]

天人合一 : Heaven and human are united as One.

I am thinking that since this thread is referencing Qi. That LC is hinting of a way to unite the Human Qi

with the Heaven Qi.

http://books.google.com/books?id=anlyarISmyAC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=tian+ren+he+yi+qigong&source=bl&ots=QxFG4cuYha&sig=qP6vl8ePC9bKEbC8zJNbVLKZyXg&hl=en&ei=vhS4TsL4EIiBsgKPyajHAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=tian%20ren%20he%20yi%20qigong&f=false

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=77Du_FlD-8IC&pg=PA13&dq=tian+ren+he+yi+qigong&hl=en&ei=dxa4TuGiJsWDsgLIpdm9Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CFIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=tian%20ren%20he%20yi%20qigong&f=false

 

Traditionally, most of the Nei Dan Qigong practices have been passed down more secretly than those of the Wai Dan. ... the "Heaven Eye" (Tian Yan, (ie The Third Eye) so as to unify the natural spirit and human spirit (Tian Ren He Yi, ...

From :

http://books.google.com/books?id=sJsTAQAAMAAJ&q=tian+ren+he+yi+qigong&dq=tian+ren+he+yi+qigong&hl=en&ei=pRa4Tp6xNIiosQLfsrziAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CFwQ6AEwAw

[deci belle]

I am thinking that since this thread is referencing Qi. That LC is hinting of a way to unite the Human Qi

with the Heaven Qi.

In a way, yes, absolutely. The essence of human is heaven. It is a matter of refining the human away till only the heaven in oneself is all that is left. Then there is nothing to prevent the essence of primordial reality within one's self to extend itself into another realm and re-unite with the realm of nothing whatsoever.

 

One then returns and solidifies the achievement before expressing sameness within difference in ordinary affairs.