waking up and falling asleep

[Mark Foote]

Lately I've been writing for friends about waking up and falling asleep, about the role of the sense of place in waking up and falling asleep. If I can bring forward my sense of location and relax, then I can wake up or fall asleep; the trick is, the sense of location tends to move as I wake up or fall asleep.

 

These days I'm happiest when I can feel my action being generated from the place I find myself in, from the place and the things that enter into the place even before I know it. I can say that my sense of place is freed to move when I have an attraction or aversion to something I feel, and the witness of that attraction or aversion enters into my sense of place; that's how I find myself waking up or falling asleep, in the midst of my activity.

 

Did you ever find yourself waking up or falling asleep, and think, "where am I!"- did you ever dance drunk and fall up? Just had to ask!

[Taomeow]

Lately I've been writing for friends about waking up and falling asleep, about the role of the sense of place in waking up and falling asleep. If I can bring forward my sense of location and relax, then I can wake up or fall asleep; the trick is, the sense of location tends to move as I wake up or fall asleep.

 

These days I'm happiest when I can feel my action being generated from the place I find myself in, from the place and the things that enter into the place even before I know it. I can say that my sense of place is freed to move when I have an attraction or aversion to something I feel, and the witness of that attraction or aversion enters into my sense of place; that's how I find myself waking up or falling asleep, in the midst of my activity.

 

Did you ever find yourself waking up or falling asleep, and think, "where am I!"- did you ever dance drunk and fall up? Just had to ask!

 

Cool!

 

I often fall asleep in different places. I fall asleep into different timelines. If I disappear from this forum, it may mean that one day I woke up into a different timeline as well.

 

Once, under the influence of -- no less than -- doctor-prescribed in the old country -- belladonna --

 

I woke up in TWO different timelines simultaneously. One of them the normal peaceful moment in the one I was in when I went to sleep, the other one absolutely terrifying and requiring immediate frantic action on my part. Both equally real, impossible to choose on the basis of "which one is the real one" -- if anything, the second one was more real to the senses, while the first one relied on mundanities like the furniture in the room and the memory of this room as the one I was supposed to have been in when going to bed. If I plunged into that second timeline that urged me to, I may have been lost to this one forever.

 

I think some cases of craziness, all-out hallucinations, etc., may have this for their cause -- the walls thinning between different timelines, the unfortunate crazy person perceiving both in equal measure, or maybe the second one better than the first, or maybe more than two all at once?.. which is why certain types of crazy people were thought of as "holy" in all cultures before institutional medicine, it was universally understood that they have access to larger realities than non-crazies. I think NLP people are of the same opinion that at least some hallucinations are caused by the thinning of the walls between worlds, not by "making up" worlds in one's head.

 

I haven't danced drunk in a long time. The last time I did, and the only time it caused a fall, I landed with the exclamation "The UN sucks." Koan: why?

[Marblehead]

Hi Mark,

 

Still trying to figure out if you are the butterfly or Mark Foote?

 

Good luck!

[Mark Foote]

Hi Mark,

 

Still trying to figure out if you are the butterfly or Mark Foote?

 

Good luck!

 

Chaos theory, Marblehead? Yeah, the fractal nature: the witness enters into the sense of place, a recursion. The beautiful patterns, on the boundaries?

 

Taomeow, thanks for tales of complacency and terror, and crazy people. Yes the crazy person I knew up close had a striking presence, but a profound inability to take care of himself, from time to time.

 

I tend to stick to beer, mostly, and I think that helps keep me upright on the floor; I'm a lucky man, that the local bar has people of all stripes that like to dance, even just to records. It's easier on me than the lotus, and sometimes I have a hard time relaxing in the subtle motion of that posture, though I think it's definitely worth the effort. But I like to dance, and to be relaxed. Lucky I'm not an addictive personality, too!

Edited October 21, 2011 by Mark Foote

[zanshin]

Chaos theory, Marblehead? Yeah, the fractal nature: the witness enters into the sense of place, a recursion. The beautiful patterns, on the boundaries?

 

Taomeow, thanks for tales of complacency and terror, and crazy people. Yes the crazy person I knew up close had a striking presence, but a profound inability to take care of himself, from time to time.

 

I tend to stick to beer, mostly, and I think that helps keep me upright on the floor; I'm a lucky man, that the local bar has people of all stripes that like to dance, even just to records. It's easier on me than the lotus, and sometimes I have a hard time relaxing in the subtle motion of that posture, though I think it's definitely worth the effort. But I like to dance, and to be relaxed. Lucky I'm not an addictive personality, too!

 

Oh, I think Marblehead meant another butterfly, but the ones in Brazil are especially beautiful.

 

I can dance drunk (once I danced in 3+ inch stillettos that I was wobbling about in even walking in at first, but somehow was able to get down and even jump up and down, but not fall anywhere) or I can go to bed drunk- but not both at once.

Edited October 21, 2011 by zanshin

[deci belle]

[RiverSnake]

Its cool to see that there are posts i as of yet am not at a level where i can under stand whats being said.

[Protector]

Its cool to see that there are posts i as of yet am not at a level where i can under stand whats being said.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPo5jTQ39eE&feature=related

[deci belle]

[Marblehead]

Chaos theory, Marblehead?

 

I have been in a few discussions concerning it but have too little knowledge to actually speak to it properly.

 

Perhaps the question needs remain unanswered.

[Marblehead]

Oh, I think Marblehead meant another butterfly, but the ones in Brazil are especially beautiful.

 

Damn!!! That reminded my of a movie titled "The Blue Butterfly" that took place somewhere in Amazonia.

 

An inspirational story and there really was the blue butterfly that was sought after.

 

Hehehe. Actually, I was talking about Chuang Tzu's butterfly.

[Marblehead]

Its cool to see that there are posts i as of yet am not at a level where i can under stand whats being said.

 

Hehehe. Please don't assume that we know what we are talking about.

[zanshin]

Damn!!! That reminded my of a movie titled "The Blue Butterfly" that took place somewhere in Amazonia.

 

An inspirational story and there really was the blue butterfly that was sought after.

 

Hehehe. Actually, I was talking about Chuang Tzu's butterfly.

 

That's the one I thought you meant. A groundbreaking paper for chaos theory was Can the Flap of A Butterfly's Wing in Brazil Touch Off A Tornado In Texas by Edward Lorenz. (might not be quite right, but it definitely was a Brazilian butterfly). I don't understand much at all, but I did catch the butterfly references!

[Marblehead]

That's the one I thought you meant. A groundbreaking paper for chaos theory was Can the Flap of A Butterfly's Wing in Brazil Touch Off A Tornado In Texas by Edward Lorenz. (might not be quite right, but it definitely was a Brazilian butterfly). I don't understand much at all, but I did catch the butterfly references!

 

Yes. From what I understand that concept is common usage for followers of Chaos Theory. In fact, I just used it a few weeks ago in a discussion and I'm not even one of the followers.

 

But no, I was referring to Chuang Tzu's unfinished story of dreaming he was a butterfly. Now, when we get to that in our study of Chuang Tzu I would expect questions as to why he did not finish the story. There is one other story that just came to my mind that he did not finish either but in this case most translators present their own thoughts as to why and how he should have finished it.

[Taomeow]

Yes. From what I understand that concept is common usage for followers of Chaos Theory. In fact, I just used it a few weeks ago in a discussion and I'm not even one of the followers.

 

But no, I was referring to Chuang Tzu's unfinished story of dreaming he was a butterfly. Now, when we get to that in our study of Chuang Tzu I would expect questions as to why he did not finish the story. There is one other story that just came to my mind that he did not finish either but in this case most translators present their own thoughts as to why and how he should have finished it.

 

I had no idea it was unfinished. I think it is complete. He just pioneered the literary device of a tension-infused ending. The translators were raised on either happily-ever-after or (occasionally) tragic endings and simply didn't get it, what do you think?

[doc benway]

 

Did you ever find yourself waking up or falling asleep, and think, "where am I!"- did you ever dance drunk and fall up? Just had to ask!

Yes and yes

[suninmyeyes]

Edited October 25, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Marblehead]

I had no idea it was unfinished. I think it is complete. He just pioneered the literary device of a tension-infused ending. The translators were raised on either happily-ever-after or (occasionally) tragic endings and simply didn't get it, what do you think?

 

Sounds good to me. This is a type of area where understandings will be different but yet no one is wrong - all are right.

 

Personally, I like thinking it is unfinished because it allows the reader's mind to wander and think on the concept.

[Mark Foote]

Yes and yes

 

Make me laugh, Steve, thanks!

 

Can we hear Chuang Tzu's story?

 

I had a long discussion with a friend over the weekend about why I don't sit more zazen, and why he finds it hard to sit more zazen. I guess it boils down to what I can do without doubt, which is not the same as certainty. I don't usually like to speak in negatives; with my friend, I described staying with the sense of place in air, inside my body, falling and letting action arise from my sense of place.

 

Can't dance to this at all, but I'm listening to Trevor Gordon Hall play "

" on YouTube.

 

I LOVE that description of Don Juan's lines and points!- when action arises from a sense of place, and my sleeping or waking carries on in the midst of things, there is a sense of reality in time- not that reality has changed or shifted but that there is something real happening that is everything at once, and nothing. From the butterfly to the tornado. Anybody that can wear heels on a dance floor and drink, my hat is off!

Edited October 26, 2011 by Mark Foote

[deci belle]

[Marblehead]

Can't dance to this at all, but I'm listening to Trevor Gordon Hall

 

That was different!

[Everything]

Lately I've been writing for friends about waking up and falling asleep, about the role of the sense of place in waking up and falling asleep. If I can bring forward my sense of location and relax, then I can wake up or fall asleep; the trick is, the sense of location tends to move as I wake up or fall asleep.

 

These days I'm happiest when I can feel my action being generated from the place I find myself in, from the place and the things that enter into the place even before I know it. I can say that my sense of place is freed to move when I have an attraction or aversion to something I feel, and the witness of that attraction or aversion enters into my sense of place; that's how I find myself waking up or falling asleep, in the midst of my activity.

 

Did you ever find yourself waking up or falling asleep, and think, "where am I!"- did you ever dance drunk and fall up? Just had to ask!

Very good topic! I actually read about this on research done for Out Of Body Experiences. Subject would sit in a chair with sci-fi glasses with 3d vision of video footage of the camera behind them. They saw their own backs. This self would get poked in the video footage they saw and they felt nothing. Then the camera would get poked and at the same time their body in the chair aswell. This gave them the experienced of being out of their own body. Taking of the glasses felt like waking back into your body.

 

Sense of location and bodily awareness has got allot to do with waking up and falling asleep indeed!

[Everything]

Its cool to see that there are posts i as of yet am not at a level where i can under stand whats being said.

Have you ever had a dream where you were in your own bed and it seemed so real, yet you discovered it was fake. Then things became scary because you did not fully accept the fakeness as it was equally real as the real world you've come to know. Some call it an oobe experience, since the dream is in your own bedroom. Others call it a lucid dream where you're on the edge of becoming lucid. The scary uncertainty of reality is what lies in between all realms, the gateway. it is the void and source of these worlds, the potential. You can create your reality by accesing these uncertainties, use the gateway as a portal to travel where you wish. You accept that your location is fake, you open the gate of uncertainty, expect to walk in where you want to and you'll arive there. Sounds metaphysical, but its not. In lucid dreams you can use doors to function as portals. What seems like metaphysical now, is real physics of the dream realm. This uncertainty is not that though. The. Uncertainty of reality is accesable in all realities. Dreaming or awake.

 

The thing is, in dreams it is very hard to accept that everything is fake and when you do, you wake up and forget how you did it and what the fake world was like. When you have enough lucid dreams, you realize that lucid dreams can be as real as your waking reality. Then you try to accept that your waking reality is fake, to acces the gateway of uncertainty. This is even more difficult. Your ego can make up 100 years worth of ideas and thoughts that proove that e erything is real. Once you do wake up to the fake nature of reality, it feels enlightening. You become everything and nothing at the same time. You can be a pencil and you can be a chair, yet stuck in my body I was on the verge of waking up. Afraid to let go of my body. I remember the experience like it happened yesterday.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Everything

[Mark Foote]

...Then you try to accept that your waking reality is fake, to acces the gateway of uncertainty. This is even more difficult. Your ego can make up 100 years worth of ideas and thoughts that proove that e erything is real. Once you do wake up to the fake nature of reality, it feels enlightening. You become everything and nothing at the same time. You can be a pencil and you can be a chair, yet stuck in my body I was on the verge of waking up. Afraid to let go of my body. I remember the experience like it happened yesterday.

I frequently feel a fear of falling when I steer myself toward action solely through the sense of location. That's something I have to be able to relax and accept, before my sense of location can shift and allow the action that holds me up to occur spontaneously. I do find that sometimes having had a few drinks and being inspired to dance helps me to let go; the hard part is keeping the focus on falling up, so that I don't drink too much and fall down!

 

Robert Monroe said that he finally realized one fail-safe way to return to his body when he was out of body, and that was to feel the movement of his own breath.

 

I listened to "DMT-The Spirit Molecule" the documentary the other day, it's on YouTube, and there was a gentleman describing a technique for lucid dreaming. He said everytime you pass through a doorway, ask yourself whether you are dreaming; he said one day, you will pass through a door in a dream and ask yourself, and then you will realize you are dreaming and can begin lucid dreaming. A friend of mine knew someone who tried it, but in the end the whole experience felt like a hall of mirrors (to that person).

 

Lately in my sober sitting I am struck by the way a freedom to shift in the sense of location is necessary to the turns in my breath, from inhalation to exhalation and particularly from exhalation to inhalation. It is like the freedom of the mind just before dropping off to sleep, that moves now here now there in the body; this freedom permits the turns in the movement of breath.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Mark Foote

[deci belle]

I liked that you shared that dreaming technique from the DMT doc, Mark! That it is like that never ceases to amaze.