Being Honest with Myself

[Cat Pillar]

Is it really so bad to seek power? When it comes down to it, I've realized that's really what I want. I tell myself this is bad though, because there are so many warnings about not following paths for the purpose of obtaining power.

 

It's not like I want to hurt anyone or anything. I just really like the idea of playing with massive amounts of energy.

[Bubbles]

Is it really so bad to seek power? When it comes down to it, I've realized that's really what I want. I tell myself this is bad though, because there are so many warnings about not following paths for the purpose of obtaining power.

 

It's not like I want to hurt anyone or anything. I just really like the idea of playing with massive amounts of energy.

 

IMHO power is not a problem. It is most natural to seek power, because power is of Life, Heaven and Earth. Problems arise when power is misused. It begins with believing that power is really yours while it is Heaven and Earth's manifestation when you strike the right cords.

Said in another way, being powerful is not a problem, it is healthy.Not being your own master when your are powerful is a problem.

 

While you are seeking power, beginning to obtain it, and still being honest with yourself; you may find that the more you have it the less you are really needing it for yourself; you may find yourself exchanging with, giving your energy to your environment. You may find yourself shifting from the view that power was something you needed for yourself to the fact that power is for service.

 

So go for it and stay honest with yourself.

Be well

Edited October 22, 2011 by bubbles

[Ish]

There's nothing wrong with it as long as your intention is good and you practice morality at the same time.

Having powerful energy & a powerful mind is then extremely useful for whatever you want to do, it's simply practical.

The masters who can meditate for hours, heal, teach, travel etc and still remain youthful and energetic obviously have "power" to go along with their wisdom.

[Marblehead]

Really nice responses already!

 

I agree, having the power for self-control and the power of health is great, I think.

 

And I also agree that any excess power should be shared for the benefit of others as well as for yourself.

 

And it's not necessary to have power over others. In fact, attempting that should be avoided, I think. However, if you have the power and the self-control and your purpose is good others will gravitate toward you and thereby naturally share yourself with others (as well as with the rest of the manifest and even spiritually if that is in abundances too.)

[templetao]

no enlightenment is power in a sense. heaven has power god has power.

 

The problem is with the notion of power as the ability to destroy few think of it as it really is and that is the power of life, healing, and forgiveness. Without that all things will destroy themselves and die.

[konchog uma]

seek to have power over yourself and your reactions,

 

not to have power over others or life itself.

 

Everyone has a right to personal power in life, it can be used for beneficial things.

[joeblast]

one problem with seeking power:

 

 

remove the ego's motivations for "power" and what do you have?

[Protector]

Is it really so bad to seek power? When it comes down to it, I've realized that's really what I want. I tell myself this is bad though, because there are so many warnings about not following paths for the purpose of obtaining power.

 

It's not like I want to hurt anyone or anything. I just really like the idea of playing with massive amounts of energy.

 

MUAHAHAHAHA YES YEEEEEEES THE POWEEEEEEEER!!!!!!!!!!!!

JOIN ME AND WE WILL GET EVEN MORE POWER THEN EVERRRRR

DON'T THINK ABOUT "How do I get more powerful?" THINK, "Why am I so powerful?"

DON'T LET THE FOOLISH EGO GET IN YOUR WAY, TRICK IT INTO HELPING YOU

YOU CAN NEVER BE MORE POWERFUL THEN ANOTHER PERSON OR TAKE AN EXAMPLE

EVERYONE IS THEIR OWN PERSON AND IF YOU CHASE SOMEONE, YOU WILL TRIP AND FALL

YOU CAN ONLY CHASE YOURSELF AND IMPROVE AS YOU DO

WITH A MANTRA LIKE "Dow do I get more powerful?" YOU IMPLY TO YOURSELF THAT YOU ARE NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH BUT YOU ARE POWERFUL ENOUGH, ASK "Why am I so powerful?" AND YOUR EGO WILL FIND SO MANY REASONS TO LIFT YOU UP WHILE THE WORLD IS BRINGING YOU dooooown

 

power is delishus

[suninmyeyes]

Is it really so bad to seek power? When it comes down to it, I've realized that's really what I want. I tell myself this is bad though, because there are so many warnings about not following paths for the purpose of obtaining power.

 

It's not like I want to hurt anyone or anything. I just really like the idea of playing with massive amounts of energy.

If you are to do and achieve anything in life you must have power, so it is necesarry.

Well mesured and promptly chanelled for the individual and universal wellbeing. Keep the life going on.

Physical manifestation starts in the thought, so it is good to think well as to what kind of life a person would like to live becouse that is exactly what s/he will give birth to.

Edited October 22, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Aaron]

Do what YOU know is right. If you do this and it is right then no harm will come to you or others.

 

Those who crave power are more often than not filled with fear. This fear drives them to protect themselves from loss. The cure to being rid of this craving is not to value those things you might lose. Be content with what you have, do not want what others have, and you will find peace in your life and will never need power.

 

Aaron

[Cat Pillar]

Thanks for your responses, everyone.

 

IMHO power is not a problem. It is most natural to seek power, because power is of Life, Heaven and Earth. Problems arise when power is misused. It begins with believing that power is really yours while it is Heaven and Earth's manifestation when you strike the right cords.

Said in another way, being powerful is not a problem, it is healthy.Not being your own master when your are powerful is a problem.

 

While you are seeking power, beginning to obtain it, and still being honest with yourself; you may find that the more you have it the less you are really needing it for yourself; you may find yourself exchanging with, giving your energy to your environment. You may find yourself shifting from the view that power was something you needed for yourself to the fact that power is for service.

 

So go for it and stay honest with yourself.

Be well

 

Mastery of myself is one of many forms of power I'm interested in. I'd gladly share power with my environment - helping makes me happy.

 

--------------------------------

 

There's nothing wrong with it as long as your intention is good and you practice morality at the same time.

Having powerful energy & a powerful mind is then extremely useful for whatever you want to do, it's simply practical.

The masters who can meditate for hours, heal, teach, travel etc and still remain youthful and energetic obviously have "power" to go along with their wisdom.

 

I believe my intent is good; I do my best to cause no harm to others, even if it harms myself.

 

--------------------------------

 

I agree, having the power for self-control and the power of health is great, I think.

 

And I also agree that any excess power should be shared for the benefit of others as well as for yourself.

 

And it's not necessary to have power over others. In fact, attempting that should be avoided, I think. However, if you have the power and the self-control and your purpose is good others will gravitate toward you and thereby naturally share yourself with others (as well as with the rest of the manifest and even spiritually if that is in abundances too.)

 

I like sharing my excess. It's no fun having abundance if you can't spread it around. I'd like to have a lot more to spread, though.

 

Manipulating others is not something I'm interested in. That's not the kind of power I'm after. I DO desire the power to effect changes in my environment, but not for the purposes of controlling others. I'd much rather work in mutually beneficial partnerships than master/slave relationships. You get better results that way.

 

---------------------------------

 

no enlightenment is power in a sense. heaven has power god has power.

 

The problem is with the notion of power as the ability to destroy few think of it as it really is and that is the power of life, healing, and forgiveness. Without that all things will destroy themselves and die.

 

My current view is that the power to destroy and the power to create are essentially the same thing; the difference is in how power is wielded. It seems that destruction is not always a negative thing; my view is that in this world sometimes destruction can pave the way to an explosion of growth. Having the wisdom to know when that applies is the tricky part.

 

---------------------------------

 

seek to have power over yourself and your reactions,

 

not to have power over others or life itself.

 

Everyone has a right to personal power in life, it can be used for beneficial things.

 

Power over myself is one form of power I seek, but there are others I'm interested in as well. Controlling others is not an interest of mine; I'm not quite sure what you mean by power over life itself, though. If you're talking about killing, everyone has that power already.

 

---------------------------------

 

one problem with seeking power: (Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it rocks absolutely too.)

 

remove the ego's motivations for "power" and what do you have?

 

It is not my view that power guarantees corruption. In my perspective corruption has more to do with the character of the person than how much power they wield; the acquisition of power merely amplifies corruption already present in the individual's makeup.

 

I don't have an answer for your question. I don't know what you have when you remove the ego's motivations for "power." I think "power" would need to be more clearly defined in this context.

 

--------------------------------

 

MUAHAHAHAHA YES YEEEEEEES THE POWEEEEEEEER!!!!!!!!!!!!

JOIN ME AND WE WILL GET EVEN MORE POWER THEN EVERRRRR

DON'T THINK ABOUT "How do I get more powerful?" THINK, "Why am I so powerful?"

DON'T LET THE FOOLISH EGO GET IN YOUR WAY, TRICK IT INTO HELPING YOU

YOU CAN NEVER BE MORE POWERFUL THEN ANOTHER PERSON OR TAKE AN EXAMPLE

EVERYONE IS THEIR OWN PERSON AND IF YOU CHASE SOMEONE, YOU WILL TRIP AND FALL

YOU CAN ONLY CHASE YOURSELF AND IMPROVE AS YOU DO

WITH A MANTRA LIKE "Dow do I get more powerful?" YOU IMPLY TO YOURSELF THAT YOU ARE NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH BUT YOU ARE POWERFUL ENOUGH, ASK "Why am I so powerful?" AND YOUR EGO WILL FIND SO MANY REASONS TO LIFT YOU UP WHILE THE WORLD IS BRINGING YOU dooooown

 

power is delishus

 

I like you, Sinfest. Always enjoy reading your posts, although I still haven't figured out how to read you.

 

You bring up a very interesting point. Very glad you mentioned it. I do indeed imply to myself that I am not powerful enough, because that is my perspective. It is difficult to say to myself "Why am I so powerful?" when that power is not evident in my life. "The proof is in the pudding" they say, and my pudding does not taste very powerful to me.

 

Is that an offer to help me get powerful at the top there?

 

--------------------------------

 

If you are to do and achieve anything in life you must have power, so it is necesarry.

Well mesured and promptly chanelled for the individual and universal wellbeing. Keep the life going on.

Physical manifestation starts in the thought, so it is good to think well as to what kind of life a person would like to live becouse that is exactly what s/he will give birth to.

 

My intent is certainly for individual and universal wellbeing. I would not like to grow powerful to the detriment of my environment.

 

I know what kind of life I'd like to live. I just don't know if I can pull it off.

 

--------------------------------

 

Do what YOU know is right. If you do this and it is right then no harm will come to you or others.

 

Those who crave power are more often than not filled with fear. This fear drives them to protect themselves from loss. The cure to being rid of this craving is not to value those things you might lose. Be content with what you have, do not want what others have, and you will find peace in your life and will never need power.

 

Aaron

 

I don't know anything. The best I can do is go off what I feel is the closest to right.

 

It is difficult for me to be content - I fear contentment would lead to stagnation. I'm interested in growing, not remaining the same. It seems to me that if I were happy as I am, I'd have no reason to put any effort into growing.

[konchog uma]

 

Power over myself is one form of power I seek, but there are others I'm interested in as well. Controlling others is not an interest of mine; I'm not quite sure what you mean by power over life itself, though. If you're talking about killing, everyone has that power already.

 

more talking about not wishing to be able to control events, just controlling our reactions to them

[Cat Pillar]

more talking about not wishing to be able to control events, just controlling our reactions to them

 

Ahh, I see what you mean. Controlling, or forcing events is not something I'd want to do, but attracting events is something I'm interested in.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Is it really so bad to seek power? When it comes down to it, I've realized that's really what I want. I tell myself this is bad though, because there are so many warnings about not following paths for the purpose of obtaining power.

 

It's not like I want to hurt anyone or anything. I just really like the idea of playing with massive amounts of energy.

 

Yes, come to the dark side! Bwahahahahahahahaha!

 

But no, really, I find it an interesting question. I've always been on the lookout for power. I got into spirituality just because I wanted magic powers to impress the ladies other things happened, cultivation helped other things, other things impressed the ladies, yadda yadda, but I still am looking for power and stuff.

 

I find it poses very interesting questions. If you could truly do things with no strings attached.... would you do those things? We have so many limits, physical laws and social laws which bind us. Social conditioning which tells us "don't do this or something bad will happen to you". But if you had the power to get away with that... WOULD you? You could only know if you had the power to do so!

 

Ahh, I see what you mean. Controlling, or forcing events is not something I'd want to do, but attracting events is something I'm interested in.

 

I'll give you an anecdote from when I was playing with the powers of manifestation-

 

I was at the grocery store and wanted a certain bag of chips. All out. Damn. I decided to try manifesting a bag of chips. So I'm walking through the store. Going to get some laundry detergent- well what do I see? A bag of the chips that I wanted surrounded by various other items. It seems like somebody got to that point, decided they didn't want those items, and just left them on the shelf. I got there before one of the workers could put it in its right place.

 

So here's the question: did I control anybody?.

 

SOMEONE had to put that bag of chips there. SOMEONE had to have decided they didn't want it.

 

But here's the mind blowing thing about it- that event very well could have happened before I even arrived to find the chips were out, before I even intended for that bag of chips to exist.

 

Crazy. Freaked me out.

 

That and some other events made me decide that I wouldn't get involved in any of that unless I could control every aspect of the energy going into a situation, because I'm really not all for manipulating anyone or anything like that.

 

To date, the best system I have found and one which teaches control and professes to get you to that level is Bardon's "Initiation Into Hermetics".

 

From the other thread, it seems you're familiar with that. Maybe you should give it another look

 

 

Anyway, the whole power thing... eh, if you are in it for the wrong reasons, you aren't going to go through all the training it takes to get the power that you want (at least, the right way). So that in and of itself is a sort of a safeguard.

 

I see it as a tool. There are good people and bad people out there. Good mystics and evil sorcerers. All that stuff that exists in all of those stories.

 

If there are bad sorcerers out there, it means it's not about being good or bad to have power, right? It means the determining factor lies elsewhere.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Do what YOU know is right. If you do this and it is right then no harm will come to you or others.

 

Those who crave power are more often than not filled with fear. This fear drives them to protect themselves from loss. The cure to being rid of this craving is not to value those things you might lose. Be content with what you have, do not want what others have, and you will find peace in your life and will never need power.

 

Aaron

 

Uh oh, do I need to break out my thesis on Anakin Skywalker?

 

Them's mighty big words, to say things like "you should just learn not to value those things you might lose". Especially when people have friends, parents, siblings, children, etc around. If you found out your kid had an incurable illness, and then heard that there was some "power" out there that could cure it, well then what? What if you HAD that power? What if someone you knew had that power, but wouldn't use it? Or wouldn't teach it? Or would teach it? Or would use it?

 

I see nothing wrong with trying to get power to protect. "Fear". What a buzzword. So much meaning and associated content attached to the word "fear".

 

When you say someone has "fear", you are saying they are weak. They may be in denial. Can't cope with reality. Looking for an escape. And excuse.

 

Is that it though? What's the use of fear?

 

It reminds you to be cautious. It reminds you to know of your limitations. Plan ahead. Map out all of the exits. Know the terrain. It motivates you to grow.

 

So when you are afraid, what are you going to do-

 

Train yourself to not care anymore so when you lose something, you don't care? That ain't hard to do. Numb yourself down enough, you could have your wife and kids raped and murdered before your very eyes and you wouldn't bat and eyelash- if you were even aware that that's what was going on. If you can't be bothered to work yourself into that state unaided, there are plenty of drugs which can help you get there. Then what? What does that do?

 

There is power to prevent that from happening. There is power to retaliate. There is power to proactively stop. What are you going to chose? To what end? Why? Why not?

 

So many ways it can go.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[witch]

I find knowledge more attractive than power. If you know things you can use the power you have more effectively. If you don't know things, even if you are really powerful it's pretty useless.

[Sloppy Zhang]

If you know things you can use the power you have more effectively.

 

And yet, at a certain point, you've got to actually have something.

 

I feel, at least around these parts, many many many practices build up the knowledge/wisdom. But where the rubber meets the road... mmmm, different story. Some got it but won't show, some won't show because they don't got.

 

It reminds me of my McDojo karate school. They taught all the forms, got all "mystical" and everything with chi... but then, when in actual sparring practice, they just used watered down kickboxing! One day an actual kickboxer came in and cleaned the whole place out. He wasn't stronger or faster than the other blackbelts there. He just actually did kickboxing. To him, everyone else was just a cheap imitation with worse technique!

 

Forget the fact that the kickboxer was a dick, and the teachers of the school were basically good people just trying to make their way in the world. But for all the "knowledge"/"wisdom" they may have held, even though they may be "using what they had", in the face of someone who had a better power developing practice, they failed.

 

It seems to me like a lot of teachers treat people who are looking for "power" as immature thrill seekers. But I think there are quite a number like Cat Pillar. They've been around the knowledge/wisdom track, and are thinking "okay, great... how do I DO it."

 

I'll use another example from my karate days (damn, what a formative time ) One of the teachers was going "okay, this is how we don't fight in karate", then he shows a bunch of moves that are basically dirty boxing. I look at all the blackbelts leaning in, wide eyed. And the teacher goes "but you all know all that, that ain't smart."

 

And one of the black belts went "hey, I don't know that, show us some more of that." I mean, that actually looked like fighting.

 

But the teacher said "no, that's not how smart people fight. In karate, we fight smart, from a long range."

 

Yeah, then the kickboxer pretty much dirty boxed his way through all the black belts who just learned how to fight "smart". Riiiiiight.

 

Sufficed to say, I left that karate school, and that's what got me into more reality based/MMA training.

 

The point is, there's a time for philosophy. There's a time for knowledge. And there's a time for getting the muscle to back it up.

 

In my opinion, a legitimate lineage has both.

 

People who are all about power are scary and they can be pretty unstable and they can be dangerous and unnerving to be around. They'll teach you some scary effective shit... but it's a fine line between staying long enough to learn the next cool thing, and staying so long they decide to trying the next cool thing on YOU.

 

People who are about the knowledge and wisdom at the expense of power, I think, are living in denial. It's a dogma that they repeat to themselves over and over again until they believe it. But I've seen many people, some who have spent quite a long time in those "knowledge" paths, actually seek out some kind of dangerous "power" paths because they are looking for the "muscle" to back up their words.

 

I think Cat Pillar is one of those people. You get on a knowledge/wisdom track, and then you go "well hold on... WHY aren't I looking for powers again?"

Edited October 23, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Jetsun]

How do you seek power?

Other than the things you do on the path anyway like embrace your vulnerability and fears and face death and harmonise you energy, what's the difference between that and one of a path of power? One who has overcome the self importance of the ego must gain power because they have very little to defend so you can't touch them

 

You can make yourself physically powerful and intimidating but still be a scared kid on the emotional level

[Sloppy Zhang]

Let's define some terms before this gets crazy....

 

When I, sloppy zhang, say things like "seeking power" and "what's wrong with power(s)", I'm referring to things like siddhis. Feats of masters of energetics. Fireballs, flying, psychic powers, invincible physical form, yadda yadda yadda yadda. Abilities whose nature may stretch or outright defy our modern scientific view of what should be possible for a human.

 

So in that sense, you can gain much knowledge and wisdom and internal cultivation personal "power" by sitting and meditating all day, but if someone were to kick down your front door and stab you, you'd be "powerless" to do anything, or at least, you'd have no better shot than the average human being in your position.

 

In that sense, you can also have much "power" and, yes, be emotionally/spiritually/personally crippled by a whole shitstorm of personal psychological/emotional traumas and issues.

 

I don't think power (as in, siddhis/abilities/etc) are mutually exclusive to knowledge/wisdom. I don't think that seeking them is an indicator of any inherent internal/personal issues.

 

No, seeking them won't make you a more cultivated individual. But by the same token, seeking them won't lessen your cultivation.

[witch]

When I say "knowledge" I'm not talking particularly about "wisdom", whatever that means. Your kickboxer example would look pretty stupid going up against someone knowing where a gun is stashed. I mean knowledge, as in tactical knowledge. Art of War-type knowledge.

 

Also nobody can shoot fireballs.

[zanshin]

Power is ability, knowledge is application, wisdom is implication.

Edited October 24, 2011 by zanshin

[Aaron]

Hello Cat Pillar,

 

The first thing I'd say is that you know a lot. Do you know what color the sky is, how to tie your shoe, how to throw a ball, or even what foods are considered breakfast foods? Do you not know this? Well then, it seems logical that you would know other things based on your experience in this world, for example what compassionate actions are and what they aren't. You would also most likely have a gauge regarding what actions are right and what one's are wrong. However, if you would rather not worry about morality, social mores, compassion, or doing what is "right", then being ambiguous in regards to what you "know" and what is "right" is a good way to go.

 

In regards to contentment, pain is the touchstone of change, but it is in no way the only way we learn to change (or learn for that matter). One who is truly on the path to awareness-heartmind-enlightenment will find contentment whether they choose to or not. I wish you luck, but I can't really help you with your answer anymore than I already have.

 

Aaron

[Protector]

When I say "knowledge" I'm not talking particularly about "wisdom", whatever that means. Your kickboxer example would look pretty stupid going up against someone knowing where a gun is stashed. I mean knowledge, as in tactical knowledge. Art of War-type knowledge.

 

Also nobody can shoot fireballs.

 

You are setting yourself up for a fire blast

 

 

 

power < wealth < emotion < knowledge < wisdom

and the only thing that beats any sorts of wisdom and smart person is, secrets

 

but that's a secret so don't tell anyone shhhh

[Aaron]

Uh oh, do I need to break out my thesis on Anakin Skywalker?

 

Them's mighty big words, to say things like "you should just learn not to value those things you might lose". Especially when people have friends, parents, siblings, children, etc around. If you found out your kid had an incurable illness, and then heard that there was some "power" out there that could cure it, well then what? What if you HAD that power? What if someone you knew had that power, but wouldn't use it? Or wouldn't teach it? Or would teach it? Or would use it?

 

I see nothing wrong with trying to get power to protect. "Fear". What a buzzword. So much meaning and associated content attached to the word "fear".

 

When you say someone has "fear", you are saying they are weak. They may be in denial. Can't cope with reality. Looking for an escape. And excuse.

 

Is that it though? What's the use of fear?

 

It reminds you to be cautious. It reminds you to know of your limitations. Plan ahead. Map out all of the exits. Know the terrain. It motivates you to grow.

 

So when you are afraid, what are you going to do-

 

Train yourself to not care anymore so when you lose something, you don't care? That ain't hard to do. Numb yourself down enough, you could have your wife and kids raped and murdered before your very eyes and you wouldn't bat and eyelash- if you were even aware that that's what was going on. If you can't be bothered to work yourself into that state unaided, there are plenty of drugs which can help you get there. Then what? What does that do?

 

There is power to prevent that from happening. There is power to retaliate. There is power to proactively stop. What are you going to chose? To what end? Why? Why not?

 

So many ways it can go.

 

 

Hello Sloppy,

 

You've expressed many times that you think it's perfectly fine to learn martial arts in order to protect yourself and others. I see you choose to carry on the debate here as well and that's fine too. First you obviously don't understand what I am saying when I say, "do not value". Did I not say be compassionate as well? Would it be compassionate to allow another to harm someone? Do you think you it would be possible to connect the dots and say, that I was possibly talking about the ego and material wants and desires? That if one does not value their self, in the sense that they do not care what others think of them, do not value goods, in the sense that they will give them away freely to those who want them, then one has little to fear?

 

Now if you want an example of this then look to the sage, but I really thought it was clear in my first comments.

 

Remember the phrase, those who live by the sword, die by the sword? Well that's paraphrased in nearly every language and culture across the world. People, even the least spiritual, understand on an intuitive level that only by living peacefully with one's neighbor can one be assured peace in their lives.

 

There are those who will feel the need to enforce their will on others and then their are those who will not resist them. Some may look down on these people, call them weak, but these are the same people who live their lives freely, because no matter what they do or are forced to do, no one can master them, because they want nothing and hold onto nothing, so nothing can be taken from them. These people are the ones who have true power. Those who force themselves on others are weak and wanting, hungry and never full, they are not satisfied because they can never have enough. You can choose which you'd rather be. I'd rather be the slave who is content, than a master who can never be happy.

 

Aaron

[deci belle]