Chi manipulation to Elemental energies?

[SeventhSense]

One of my friends was talking about how chi could be used to move water, make the wind blow, or start a fire? Could i have some opinions about this topic?

[Protector]

No

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Ish]

One of my friends was talking about how chi could be used to move water, make the wind blow, or start a fire? Could i have some opinions about this topic?

 

In the realms of Kung Fu, i've heard secondhand stories about certain masters.

One could move paper at a distance with little effort, another would create big gusts of wind when practicing his kung fu.

In my opinion you would only get this level of ability really going to the limit focused on one or a few speciailised arts which develop energy in a specific way.

Not particularly practical or feasible in modern times because 1) We aren't fighting for our lives and 2)We're generally very lazy and distracted compared to past practioners.

Bear in mind none of this is elemental magic or manipulation.

 

Of course there's John Chang for the fire thing, but i wouldn't call it fire

manipulation, just a heck of a lot of power.

 

You can look into Franz Bardon's books, I don't know how effective it is but there is some elemental stuff there.

 

 

My opinion is that there's no point aiming for the abilities you mentioned unless the practice has some other useful benefits.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Franz Bardon's books

 

This.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Protector]

Slop + Nekomata + Friend = Sparta!!!

 

You forgot to add "is"

[Cat Pillar]

This.

 

Thirded. If you're talking elemental, Bardon is the way to go.

[Protector]

Thirded. If you're talking elemental, Bardon is the way to go.

 

Only downside is that with him it takes 20 years to see progress

No wonder all masters are so bitter

[Cat Pillar]

Only downside is that with him it takes 20 years to see progress

No wonder all masters are so bitter

 

"I spent twenty years meditating and all I got was this damn t-shirt!"

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

Only downside is that with him it takes 20 years to see progress

No wonder all masters are so bitter

 

Twenty is an exaggeration.

 

10 years is the usual approximation to get you to step 8. Steps 9 and 10 are full on freaking uniting with the cosmic universal god consciousness, resolving everything about your being past, present, and future, and basically becoming a deity unto your own self (in the sense that you bind with universal consciousness/god/whatever you want to call it). Enlightenment in the fullest sense.

 

On top of that, the 10 year estimation is for the average person with a job and family life, someone who spends about 20-40 minutes on the exercises a day. Basically, working man comes home from work, greets the wife, plays with the kids, eats dinner, tucks the kids in at night, he sits in his comfy chair, reads the paper for a bit, maybe a book, relaxes, leans back, does some meditations for 20-40 minutes, gets up, then gets into bed with the wife, then back to sleep for work the next day. On weekends or holidays, throw in an extra 20-40 as he reclines in the sun or by the fire.

 

THAT'S the framework. Do that every day, and in 10 years, you'll have something.

 

Just doing an hour a day is more than twice Bardon's suggestion.

 

Of course, keep in mind the old zen story- the harder you work, the farther off you'll get

 

Slow and steady wins the race. And in the long run, chances are that the person who takes it 20-40 mins is going to progress faster than someone who tries to do it for 1-2 hrs at a time, burns out, quits, tries again, burns out, quits, etc etc etc etc.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Ish]

Twenty is an exaggeration.

 

10 years is the usual approximation to get you to step 8. Steps 9 and 10 are full on freaking uniting with the cosmic universal god consciousness, resolving everything about your being past, present, and future, and basically becoming a deity unto your own self (in the sense that you bind with universal consciousness/god/whatever you want to call it). Enlightenment in the fullest sense.

 

On top of that, the 10 year estimation is for the average person with a job and family life, someone who spends about 20-40 minutes on the exercises a day. Basically, working man comes home from work, greets the wife, plays with the kids, eats dinner, tucks the kids in at night, he sits in his comfy chair, reads the paper for a bit, maybe a book, relaxes, leans back, does some meditations for 20-40 minutes, gets up, then gets into bed with the wife, then back to sleep for work the next day. On weekends or holidays, throw in an extra 20-40 as he reclines in the sun or by the fire.

 

THAT'S the framework. Do that every day, and in 10 years, you'll have something.

 

Just doing an hour a day is more than twice Bardon's suggestion.

 

Of course, keep in mind the old zen story- the harder you work, the farther off you'll get

 

Slow and steady wins the race. And in the long run, chances are that the person who takes it 20-40 mins is going to progress faster than someone who tries to do it for 1-2 hrs at a time, burns out, quits, tries again, burns out, quits, etc etc etc etc.

 

Did Franz Bardon manage to attain this himself? I.e is it taught from his own experience and/or from a lineage?

[Apech]

 

On top of that, the 10 year estimation is for the average person with a job and family life, someone who spends about 20-40 minutes on the exercises a day. Basically, working man comes home from work, greets the wife, plays with the kids, eats dinner, tucks the kids in at night, he sits in his comfy chair, reads the paper for a bit, maybe a book, relaxes, leans back, does some meditations for 20-40 minutes, gets up, then gets into bed with the wife, then back to sleep for work the next day. On weekends or holidays, throw in an extra 20-40 as he reclines in the sun or by the fire.

 

THAT'S the framework. Do that every day, and in 10 years, you'll have something.

 

...

 

An enlightened man with a very frustrated and disappointed wife ....

[Sonhoffman]

An enlightened man with a very frustrated and disappointed wife ....

 

It's up to the wife to see that she is happy. She needs a lover and a practice of her own

[Sloppy Zhang]

Did Franz Bardon manage to attain this himself? I.e is it taught from his own experience and/or from a lineage?

 

As the story goes, he was a highly evolved and accomplished teacher who was, by the will of divine providence, placed on this earth to reveal to the human world the first four books of the tarot (the first being represented by The Mage tarot card- Initiation Into Hermetics, the foundation of magical practice, which, by the end of the training, will have provided the initiate mastery over the four basic elements on the physical, astral, and mental spheres... three books of his were published- Initiation Into Hermetics, The Practice of Magical Evocation, and the Key to the True Kabbalah... the fourth one was being worked on, but the recorded tapes of him speaking were confiscated when he was taken by the Russians).

 

We only really have highlights of Bardon's life, and not a whole lot in between. It's not clear exactly how he came by his impressive skills. Some maintain that he really was a higher spirit incarnated. Others maintain he was just a really brilliant guy who studied lots of occult methods of the time, and then condensed them into one single training manual.

 

No matter where each accounts say he learned from, they all agree that he was a practical working magician, and that he was able to show feats not only of a magically adept nature, but also of a very spiritual and compassionate nature.

 

An interesting article on some of these subjects and more is written here.

 

An enlightened man with a very frustrated and disappointed wife ....

 

My dear Apech, who ever said that nothing happened between those two points?

 

For someone reading between the lines, there's quite a big space in there for all kinds of things to go down

Edited October 24, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Birch]

An enlightened man with a very frustrated and disappointed wife ....

I just couldn't get past the "eats the dinner". Maybe if the aspiring enlightened man attempted cooking on occasion he might break out of his neatly-scripted little life and get somewhere.

What decade were you referring to Mr Slopps? I don't think i've heard of this type of lifestyle since 1970 - something.

Do people still do that?

[Sloppy Zhang]

I just couldn't get past the "eats the dinner". Maybe if the aspiring enlightened man attempted cooking on occasion he might break out of his neatly-scripted little life and get somewhere.

 

Who said he didn't make the dinner

 

Love the assumptions people have about what I wrote I figured people would focus on certain things, so when I wrote that part I wrote them a certain way... but damn, people are pretty fixated on it

 

But seriously, though:

What decade were you referring to Mr Slopps? I don't think i've heard of this type of lifestyle since 1970 - something.

Do people still do that?

 

Initiation Into Hermetics was published in 1956, and then published in English in 1962 (Bardon died in 1958).

 

So Bardon is writing for that timeframe/culture. When he talks about spending about 20 minutes on the exercises daily, he's making them so they fit into that kind of "routine".

Edited October 24, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Apech]

.....

 

Initiation Into Hermetics was published in 1956, and then published in English in 1962 (Bardon died in 1958).

 

So Bardon is writing for that timeframe/culture. When he talks about spending about 20 minutes on the exercises daily, he's making them so they fit into that kind of "routine".

 

I assume there's a Bardon iPhone app available now that does the 20 mins for you.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I assume there's a Bardon iPhone app available now that does the 20 mins for you.

 

That'd be great, if, after ten years, you want your smart phone to become your enlightened phone

[Birch]

Who said he didn't make the dinner

 

Love the assumptions people have about what I wrote I figured people would focus on certain things, so when I wrote that part I wrote them a certain way... but damn, people are pretty fixated on it

 

But seriously, though:

 

 

Initiation Into Hermetics was published in 1956, and then published in English in 1962 (Bardon died in 1958).

 

So Bardon is writing for that timeframe/culture. When he talks about spending about 20 minutes on the exercises daily, he's making them so they fit into that kind of "routine".

 

Not all your doing Mr Slopps. I took a shot at the historic timeframe. I suspected that it was unlikely the good man would be making his own dinner during that period :-)

Maybe his wife didn't either.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[templetao]

One of my friends was talking about how chi could be used to move water, make the wind blow, or start a fire? Could i have some opinions about this topic?

 

 

So just to confirm no one here knows anything about this or if such a thing is possible?

[Sloppy Zhang]

Not all your doing Mr Slopps. I took a shot at the historic timeframe. I suspected that it was unlikely the good man would be making his own dinner during that period :-)

Maybe his wife didn't either.

 

 

I dunno, I came from a working household. Dad didn't get back 'till 8 or 9 at night, mom didn't get back till 6 or 7 at night. Mom made dinner because she got home first, and if she waited around for dad to get home, no one would be eating dinner (including her and the three kids).

 

Of course, whenever the vision struck her for how the plants in the yard had to be moved, it was dad (and me and my brother ) doing the grunt work

 

The takeaway from my parents was that it's got to be an equal and mutually agreed upon division of labor. So, yeah, they were doing "stereotypical" things, but they didn't consider their work to be stereotypical, because the breakdown was always even and they worked it out. So I guess I'm less offended by the things being done, and care more about how things got to be the way they are. So if the aspiring Bardonite does have a wife cooking dinner, it better be equal and fair all the way around

 

Well, for people who not have the concentration 5 minutes are more than suffient.

Else these people just use up too much Shen because of ineffcient abillity. And it takes time to regenerate, has its reason that he starts on less time.

 

Yeah, a lot of the exercises in his book do start out with a five minute marker, or one or two minutes, and then you're supposed to build up.

 

Really, the going is pretty slow, but it's to build a foundation.

[Sloppy Zhang]

So just to confirm no one here knows anything about this or if such a thing is possible?

 

"Confirm"?

 

Hmm... "confirm".

 

Well, if your threshold for "confirmation" is that you read on an internet forum someone saying "trust me, I've seen this happen, I know it's real", then IIH is your best bet, if you want to try and do it yourself.

 

That I know of, anyway. There are probably other options, but none so accessible and easily laid out as IIH. You could try and go for something more exotic, but then you're talking hundreds-thousands of dollars and hundreds-thousands of hours penetrating some foreign culture and forging personal relationships in the hope that they'll decode their mysticism.