Chi manipulation to Elemental energies?

[Machin Shin]

"I spent twenty years meditating and all I got was this damn t-shirt!"

 

I've spent 12 centuries and all I have is book that says to keep doing it!

[templetao]

It's not clear exactly how he came by his impressive skills. Some maintain that he really was a higher spirit incarnated. Others maintain he was just a really brilliant guy who studied lots of occult methods of the time, and then condensed them into one single training manual.

 

Sloppy,

 

Can you tell me what Bardon said about the elements and their use? Also if you know it his elemental magic could you explain to me how it is invoked like how do you conjure it?

[templetao]

Never mind I found his whole book on scribd. http://www.scribd.com/doc/55857071/Franz-Bardon-Initiation-Into-Hermetics#page=25

 

and its incorrect in a lot of places.

[Sloppy Zhang]

and its incorrect in a lot of places.

 

Care to help out the rest of us?

[templetao]

Well its obvious to anyone that Bardon was not the originator of this material. i wonder what culture he stole this from. Its apparent to me that this culture that he learned from didnt teach him how to manifest it. For this is clearly missing from his material.

 

In my personal opinion bardon was part of the Golden Dawn(the head of the mystical branch of the illuminati) and he used their money to find and learn the mystical arts of the world under their direction. This also explains Bardon's obviously fictional beginnings as well.

 

In my initial (starting last nite) research into bardon I came across this and this confirmed what i was already thinking http://www.armory.com/~mortoj/magick/newfiles/bardon.html

 

The Tibetan culture showed him a lot about the elements except how to properly conjure them after collecting them.

[Aetherous]

Golden Dawn(the head of the mystical branch of the illuminati)

 

I have never heard this connection before...to me it seems inaccurate.

[templetao]

What I said about Bardon stands.

Edited November 27, 2011 by templetao

[Aetherous]

My bad, not trying to sound argumentative about this...I just find Golden Dawn to have been kinda ridiculous.

 

Could have been the case, though. A lot of "illuminati" groups branched off of the original. Some were legitimate, and some just stole the namesake.

[templetao]

My bad, not trying to sound argumentative about this...I just find Golden Dawn to have been kinda ridiculous.

 

Could have been the case, though. A lot of "illuminati" groups branched off of the original. Some were legitimate, and some just stole the namesake.

 

Well on this im not arguing the validity of the golden dawn. I am pursuing the claims of bardon's knowledge. Everything about him seems fabricated from his history to his works. I think he did write the books but the knowledge was taken and his funding and his publishing was backed by the illuminati.

 

What I found more interesting was the group of powerful Tibetan black magicians as mentioned here http://www.armory.com/~mortoj/magick/newfiles/bardon.html

 

Does anyone know about this?

[templetao]

Care to help out the rest of us?

I almost forgot about your request yes i can help you. To make the element training that bardon describes work there are 2 missing things that is absolutely required to manifesting and using the elements that you collected.

 

Once i seen that this wasnt in the book then I knew that he really didnt know what he was talking about and was never mastered the elements. For it is impossible to do so without properly manifesting them.

 

But before i give you the missing keys i want to know if you could help find what culture he stole this info from.

Edited November 27, 2011 by templetao

[Sloppy Zhang]

In my initial (starting last nite) research into bardon

 

But before i give you the missing keys i want to know if you could help find what culture he stole this info from.

 

Okay, well you just started, so I guess I'll throw out some stuff.

 

There are a couple of theories as to where Bardon got his knowledge from.

 

Supporters of Bardon (as I've pointed out in a couple of places) believe that he was a more refined soul who decided to incarnate into a human body, take on its karma, and then teach to the world these techniques.

 

People taking a less mystical approach believe he merely did a lot of research and practice of the current practices of the time, and merely synthesized them into one book.

 

For instance, people point to the Seven Hermetic Letters by Lomer and writings from some other lady (whose name I don't recall), and mention that Bardon's work simply combines their ideas.

 

I read somewhere that he was a member of some lodge, something involving Jupiter, if I recall correctly, which was big in the pre-Nazi days, but then went underground/disbanded as Hitler and the Nazis started coming to power.

 

I don't know how much he had to do with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Their approach is a lot different than Bardon's (though I've read that combining the ritual of the Golden Dawn with the real magical power that Bardon helps you build leads to some stuff). I don't know how much he had to do with the Illuminati. And I don't know how much he took from yoga/Tibetan Buddhism. Text itself references yoga and the chakras, but suggests one look to already published materials to read up on it, as writing it in the book would just be a rehashing of what was already done.

 

For sure there was a lot of sharing of knowledge. It was "cool" in those days to study up on India and Tibet. I feel like a lot of people took that as inspiration, and combined what (little?) they knew of those practices with what fragments of western mystical traditions they had at their disposal. And for sure, various lodges were trading material, and I'm sure a couple of people had dual membership, as the impression I got is that, at some point, these organizations were much more like social/research clubs, than serious spiritual places (except for perhaps the upper echelons).

 

Bardon, I think, read a lot and practiced quite a bit. "Steal" is a loaded word, and depending on your vantage point in the situation, might be the word you want to use. For sure you can trace elements in his work to what was going on in Europe at the time, specifically what was going on in mystical groups and what was being brought in from India and Tibet. And I don't think any particular group was sponsoring him to do anything to any particular means.

 

Anyway, that's what I got when I researched the matter (because I do like to find the origins and lineages of people).

Edited November 27, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Birch]

My bad, not trying to sound argumentative about this...I just find Golden Dawn to have been kinda ridiculous.

 

Could have been the case, though. A lot of "illuminati" groups branched off of the original. Some were legitimate, and some just stole the namesake.

 

i reckon they were just as ridiculous as the TTB's :-) No offence to anyone (to myself included). I think one of the things that happened with GD that probably doesn't happen as much with TTB's given its online avatar basis is actual 'on the ground' networking and influence. I read it happens with FreeMasons, I have some evidence it happens with other groups. In fact, generally-speaking, it happens wherever people get into 'interest groups.'

 

Maybe there should be a TTB's handshake

[konchog uma]

i reckon they were just as ridiculous as the TTB's :-) No offence to anyone (to myself included). I think one of the things that happened with GD that probably doesn't happen as much with TTB's given its online avatar basis is actual 'on the ground' networking and influence. I read it happens with FreeMasons, I have some evidence it happens with other groups. In fact, generally-speaking, it happens wherever people get into 'interest groups.'

 

Maybe there should be a TTB's handshake

 

haha a super secret emoticon!!

 

its so secret its invisible. you can only see it with your third eye!!

 

first order of business, taking over the world.

 

then, disbanding our organization, since having an organization that runs the world is very un-dao.

 

thirdly, reveling in the ungodly chaos that arises when we take over the world and abdicate our duties. I'm gonna take this class

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D4-A-9MvEzg

just to be on the safe side!!

[tumoessence]

As the story goes, he was a highly evolved and accomplished teacher who was, by the will of divine providence, placed on this earth to reveal to the human world the first four books of the tarot (the first being represented by The Mage tarot card- Initiation Into Hermetics, the foundation of magical practice, which, by the end of the training, will have provided the initiate mastery over the four basic elements on the physical, astral, and mental spheres... three books of his were published- Initiation Into Hermetics, The Practice of Magical Evocation, and the Key to the True Kabbalah... the fourth one was being worked on, but the recorded tapes of him speaking were confiscated when he was taken by the Russians).

 

We only really have highlights of Bardon's life, and not a whole lot in between. It's not clear exactly how he came by his impressive skills. Some maintain that he really was a higher spirit incarnated. Others maintain he was just a really brilliant guy who studied lots of occult methods of the time, and then condensed them into one single training manual.

 

No matter where each accounts say he learned from, they all agree that he was a practical working magician, and that he was able to show feats not only of a magically adept nature, but also of a very spiritual and compassionate nature.

 

An interesting article on some of these subjects and more is written here.

 

 

 

My dear Apech, who ever said that nothing happened between those two points?

 

For someone reading between the lines, there's quite a big space in there for all kinds of things to go down

See interviews with Emil Stejnar about Bardon which my wife and I translated.Bardon click on Emil Stejnar's page. There are three interviews about Bardon and his life.

 

Some of the ideas in the Veritas article come from those interviews.

Edited November 28, 2011 by tumoessence

[templetao]

Okay, well you just started, so I guess I'll throw out some stuff.

 

There are a couple of theories as to where Bardon got his knowledge from.

 

Supporters of Bardon (as I've pointed out in a couple of places) believe that he was a more refined soul who decided to incarnate into a human body, take on its karma, and then teach to the world these techniques.

 

People taking a less mystical approach believe he merely did a lot of research and practice of the current practices of the time, and merely synthesized them into one book.

 

For instance, people point to the Seven Hermetic Letters by Lomer and writings from some other lady (whose name I don't recall), and mention that Bardon's work simply combines their ideas.

 

I read somewhere that he was a member of some lodge, something involving Jupiter, if I recall correctly, which was big in the pre-Nazi days, but then went underground/disbanded as Hitler and the Nazis started coming to power.

 

I don't know how much he had to do with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Their approach is a lot different than Bardon's (though I've read that combining the ritual of the Golden Dawn with the real magical power that Bardon helps you build leads to some stuff). I don't know how much he had to do with the Illuminati. And I don't know how much he took from yoga/Tibetan Buddhism. Text itself references yoga and the chakras, but suggests one look to already published materials to read up on it, as writing it in the book would just be a rehashing of what was already done.

 

For sure there was a lot of sharing of knowledge. It was "cool" in those days to study up on India and Tibet. I feel like a lot of people took that as inspiration, and combined what (little?) they knew of those practices with what fragments of western mystical traditions they had at their disposal. And for sure, various lodges were trading material, and I'm sure a couple of people had dual membership, as the impression I got is that, at some point, these organizations were much more like social/research clubs, than serious spiritual places (except for perhaps the upper echelons).

 

Bardon, I think, read a lot and practiced quite a bit. "Steal" is a loaded word, and depending on your vantage point in the situation, might be the word you want to use. For sure you can trace elements in his work to what was going on in Europe at the time, specifically what was going on in mystical groups and what was being brought in from India and Tibet. And I don't think any particular group was sponsoring him to do anything to any particular means.

 

Anyway, that's what I got when I researched the matter (because I do like to find the origins and lineages of people).

 

 

The group that Bardon most likely was a part of was Fraternity of Saturn.

 

Franz Bardon was all apart of the Nazi movement. The below quotes were taken from here http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/secretsoc_20century/secretsoc_20century06.htm

 

"According to Franz Bardon, Adolf Hitler was also a member of a “F.O.G.C. Lodge” (Freimaurerischer Orden der Goldenen Centurie, Dresden, Germany = Masonic Order of the Golden Century) which is actually know as the “99 Lodges”. There are 99 of these “99 Lodges” in many places of the world, all with 99 members.

 

 

 

Each lodge is presided by a demon, and each member has his personal demon. The deal is that the demon helps his person gain money and power, but his soul is after death committed to serve the demon. In addition one member is sacrificed every year to the lodge demon. It will be replaced by a new member. The members of the “99 Lodges” are also industrialists and bankers of the highest caliber and today are more important than ever. The “F.O.G.C.” or “99 Lodges” are in my opinion the most dangerous, compared to which the “Church of Satan” of Anton LaVey that the media write about is harmless.

 

 

 

Franz Bardon confirmed that Hitler and the Thule order were the outer tool of a group of Tibetan magicians.

 

 

Only [one] who knows about those circumstances will understand this sentence from a speech by Hitler held on January 30, 1945:

 

“In this battle again inner Asia will not win, but Europe – led by that nation that for one and a half thousand years has represented Europe as vanguard towards the East and will continue to do so in all eternity: Our great German Reich, the German nation!

 

(Max Domarus: Hitler – Speeches and Declarations 1932-1945).

 

There are also many myths about the whereabouts of Adolf Hitler after the War. According to Franz Bardon and Miguel Serranos (former Chilean ambassador to Germany) Hitler escaped with the help of the “99 Lodge”. This is perhaps easier to understand if one knows that Hitler used up to five doubles during his tenure. A large German newspaper wrote on March 5, 1979 that Hitler’s private plane had been found in the jungle in South America."

 

Oh yeah I found a little something about the black order

 

"The SS, also called the “Black Order”, was everything but a police troop. It was a proper religious order of a hierarchical makeup. The brutal Nazi party as a holy order? In hindsight this seems ridiculous, until one notices that it wouldn’t be the first time in history that a holy order was responsible for the most monstrous atrocities. The Jesuits, but also the Dominicans who ruled the Catholic Inquisition in the Middle Ages, are prime examples.

 

 

 

The BLACK ORDER was the practical realization of the esoteric and occult belief system of the Thule-Gesellschaft and the later SS “Schwarze Sonne” (Black Sun) not only worked closely together with the Tibetan colony in Berlin but also with a Tibetan order of black magic."

 

Now back to the elements after reviewing bardon's book on it I can tell you 1 of the 2 things he left out when it comes to element application.

 

1. You have to be conjuring the element at the same time that you are trying to use it like projecting it.

2. He doesnt teach you how to conjure the elemental chi that you stored and if this isnt taught you will never be able to use the elements.

3. Im not sure if he really knows what he is talking about I mean lets say you mastered the fire practice your pretty dangerous with just that alone..... not counting the other elements. Then rest of the book with be filled with application and use.

 

In my opinion the culture that he stole this from never taught him this so he couldnt go around hurting people and using this for evil purposes. To be blunt the way he teaches it will bring you a greater sense of balance but you wont be a badass.

Edited December 3, 2011 by templetao

[Zhongyongdaoist]

See interviews with Emil Stejnar about Bardon which my wife and I translated.Bardon click on Emil Stejnar's page. There are three interviews about Bardon and his life.

 

Some of the ideas in the Veritas article come from those interviews.

tummoessence,

 

Thank you for the link above to the Archiv Hermetischer Texte. The material is truly interesting and enough to make me lament the rusty state of my German. What little I could gather tends to confirm my suspicion that, despite explicit references to Madame Alexandra David-Neel and the use of Tibetan terms and a description of some Tibetan ritual techniques, that there was a strong Hindu influence on his elemental theory. Also the reference to Sivananda and his 100 books in 'englishcher Sparache' lends credence to my idea that Bardon had had at least some familiarity with English, a notion also supported by a quote from a letter on Peter Koenig's site, http://www.parareligion.ch/sunrise/pg.htm, attributed to Martin Starr, dated 22.8.88:

 

"I have no reference to Franz Bardon as a member of the A.A., and would rather doubt it; all I know was that in the early 1930s he wrote to A.C. for permission to translate "Magick in Theory and Practice" into Czech; considering that his English was so bad, A.C. thought his effort was comical."

According to Koenig, Starr had connections with the OTO in the US, how reliable Starr's information is I don't know, but of course there are both obvious and subtle instances of Crowley's influence on Bardon's writings.

 

I can only hope that you and your wife will translate more of this material for the benefit of people who cannot access the original German.

[Sloppy Zhang]

[templetao]

Sloppy,

 

No I have not read his other book as I am not into magic.

 

How do you become a badass? Well I think that is different for everyone but for me I think its learning a subject in its entirety then being really skilled in its application.