Truth is a burden for me

[Everything]

I'm wondering... If truth is personal, how come that you can never return to a lie once you have seen the truth? Like a butterfly that can not become a caterpillar again. It seems that truth is really beyond your reality, yet it affects your reality once you think about it. It bugs your mind and eats it from the inside out.

 

When you see the whole world living a lie, sometimes it seems like a burden to not lie yourself. I cannot stand it, there seems to be no other path then to become a careless, cold blooded, shrewd person. Truth blurs your decision space and traps you into walking the one path. Saying that all lies around you are truth can only be done with a calm heart when you forget about the truth all together. Sometimes it feels like the truth is not so great... We should write it down, lock it up and forget all about it.

 

There is more to life then just words... There is no need to believe at all. The only thing we need to believe in is that truth is a lie. Living in uncertainty seems to be the way to go.

 

I tried to unify this duality. First to see how they differ, which was hilariously easy. Then the hard part was to see how they related. I gave them a relationship of interdependance here since it seems to be the way of reality. The truth can be a lie aswell, or truth, depending on the person.

When we accept truth as lie, we will open up to the Greater reality and unify the duality. This paradoxically happens because there is no such thing is dependancy or independancy, there is just one big ALL. Everything is equal to nothing and nothing equal to everything.

 

When you live in truth, the lie seems to be a mirror of truth. When you accept that truth is actually a lie, you start to see that what seemed like the truth to you in the past was actually a mirror. The shift feels like a coin being turned around. The greater reality seems diffrent, yet the same. During the shift, you might get a small glimps at Tao if you pay close attention.

To follow your senses, emotions, intuition is the way to live. As long as you come with the good constructive intention that is intuitevely picked with the greater reality as a reference point, the right words seem to flow automaticly from your mouth. It seems to fit the situation perfectly everytime. Only love came out of this in my experience...

 

What do you guys think about truth?

Edited October 23, 2011 by Everything

[Protector]

I think, when the butterfly dies it becomes dust and a part of the earth, then trees eat the butterfly and butterfly becomes fruit, the butterfly fruit gets eaten by a person, when you meet that person their dead butterfly skin falls off their body and gets mixed with the air that you both breath and you become a butterfly

[konchog uma]

What do you guys think about truth?

 

deep thoughts mr everything

 

some ideas match up with the reality-as-it-is and some are based in fantasy and delusion. Truth carries with it responsibility so there is a burden, but integrity is a lighter burden than one carries if they are involved in lies and fantastic delusions. The latter is much worse, so in the end, going through time is a burden, best to man up and carry yours nobly.

 

truth is not the best policy 100% of the time like some naive people think, but integrity is the measure of ones spiritual success and wholeness.

[Nihro]

Maybe what you view as the world living a lie is really just our world living some form of truth that words cannot justifiably represent. I've found it personally best to just take things for face value and work with what you have. Honesty can never be a burden it just is what it is: honesty.

 

Here's a link to one of my favorite poems called "Fear of the Inexplicable" by Rainer Maria Rilke. http://www.stanford.edu/~rty/poems/rmrpoems.html

 

His end line in particular is one of my favorites. "...perhaps all the dragons of our lives are princesses waiting to see us once beautiful and brave. Perhaps something terrible is in its deepest being something helpless that wants help from us."

 

Everybody has hardships and often we allow them to corrupt our initial view of the world. It is only when we take our hardships at face value and meet them without fear that we are able to transcend our initial view of them. They are after all, just things. Living a lie might sound easier but at the end of the day all you're left with is a paper tiger with no substance and you've discarded your own true essence. If we are to take these trials at face value and work within their own boundaries then sooner or later we can view them for what they really are: aspects of our life which will eventually make us into who we are meant to be.

 

I wonder more about your first line, is truth personal? Surely truth is just truth as the name implies. Truth has as many shades and possibilities as anything else in life but there is nothing inherently bad or damaging about accepting what is there. To me, truth is best met with honesty and is instantly discarded the moment a better truth shows itself. However, even once this past "truth" has been discarded what is there is still truth. Everything is in essence stagnant while it evolves within the boundaries of our own perception.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Nihro

[Everything]

deep thoughts mr everything

 

some ideas match up with the reality-as-it-is and some are based in fantasy and delusion. Truth carries with it responsibility so there is a burden, but integrity is a lighter burden than one carries if they are involved in lies and fantastic delusions. The latter is much worse, so in the end, going through time is a burden, best to man up and carry yours nobly.

 

truth is not the best policy 100% of the time like some naive people think, but integrity is the measure of ones spiritual success and wholeness.

Are you saying that Truth can be truth 50% of the situations and a lie 50% of the situations?

 

I could agree on that.

[Everything]

Maybe what you view as the world living a lie is really just our world living some form of truth that words cannot justifiably represent. I've found it personally best to just take things for face value and work with what you have. Honesty can never be a burden it just is what it is: honesty.

 

Here's a link to one of my favorite poems called "Fear of the Inexplicable" by Rainer Maria Rilke. http://www.stanford.edu/~rty/poems/rmrpoems.html

 

His end line in particular is one of my favorites. "...perhaps all the dragons of our lives are princesses waiting to see us once beautiful and brave. Perhaps something terrible is in its deepest being something helpless that wants help from us."

 

Everybody has hardships and often we allow them to corrupt our initial view of the world. It is only when we take our hardships at face value and meet them without fear that we are able to transcend our initial view of them. They are after all, just things. Living a lie might sound easier but at the end of the day all you're left with is a paper tiger with no substance and you've discarded your own true essence. If we are to take these trials at face value and work within their own boundaries then sooner or later we can view them for what they really are: aspects of our life which will eventually make us into who we are meant to be.

 

I wonder more about your first line, is truth personal? Surely truth is just truth as the name implies. Truth has as many shades and possibilities as anything else in life but there is nothing inherently bad or damaging about accepting what is there. To me, truth is best met with honesty and is instantly discarded the moment a better truth shows itself. However, even once this past "truth" has been discarded what is there is still truth. Everything is in essence stagnant while it evolves within the boundaries of our own perception.

Yeah, that is what I ment. To accept that truth is a lie. When say "truth" is a "lie" it doesn't get rid of the truth. It just opens you up for new truth's, because you know that truth is everchanging.

 

When you can accept that, you can see how truth and lie differ, yet relate to eachother. That seems to be a greater perspective then just accepting truth as truth.

[zanshin]

yeah you can realize what seemed like truth was a lie, ever had it happen the other way around? Things that seemed like lies now you realize were true. Being embarrassed or ashamed or broken hearted. Can seem like the end of the world when you are young and going through it maybe someone tells you you'll be fine and you'll get over it and doesn't seem possible. But eventually you're fine and you get over it. Then you have kids and start to see a few things even from your parent's point of view and understand why they did things that didn't make sense to you when they said and did things. Perspectives and times keep changing and it's all a mind warp. Some truths are absolute but most are personal and relative.

[konchog uma]

Are you saying that Truth can be truth 50% of the situations and a lie 50% of the situations?

 

I could agree on that.

 

thats not really what i was saying. I was saying that the burden of being truthful is far less heavy than the burden of being a liar.

 

truth is one thing, which is, does what is said match up with the reality. Sometimes depending on what is said, truth can be a little flexible. And sometimes, truth can just be inappropriate to the situation at hand. Then there is high truth, or Truth capital T (or ma'at in egyptian which had a good understanding of it.. ma'at was the feather your soul was weighed against at death) which is a little different and not as flexible.

 

the wisest words i have heard on truth are this: "speak the truth to condition your mind to believe that what you say can manifest. If you are always lying, you subconsciously condition the mind to believe that your words are just flimsy constructs which could mean anything. If you are constantly telling the truth, your mind comes to believe that what you say and think is real and can manifest, so this is important to magic."

[Everything]

yeah you can realize what seemed like truth was a lie, ever had it happen the other way around? Things that seemed like lies now you realize were true. Being embarrassed or ashamed or broken hearted. Can seem like the end of the world when you are young and going through it maybe someone tells you you'll be fine and you'll get over it and doesn't seem possible. But eventually you're fine and you get over it. Then you have kids and start to see a few things even from your parent's point of view and understand why they did things that didn't make sense to you when they said and did things. Perspectives and times keep changing and it's all a mind warp. Some truths are absolute but most are personal and relative.

Yeah, lie becomes truth aswell. Yet people just ignore this and continue life as if it never happened!

 

I just about shaking people's head and say, "wake the fuck up!"

 

That would not be so nice though

[konchog uma]

Yeah, that is what I ment. To accept that truth is a lie. When say "truth" is a "lie" it doesn't get rid of the truth. It just opens you up for new truth's, because you know that truth is everchanging.

 

When you can accept that, you can see how truth and lie differ, yet relate to eachother. That seems to be a greater perspective then just accepting truth as truth.

 

everything said is true false and irrelevant from a trine of points of view.

 

thinking that lies are truths and truths are lies tho is a slippery slope. Best to stay on the path of virtue and give the truth a fair chance. There's a lot of power in truth.

[Everything]

thats not really what i was saying. I was saying that the burden of being truthful is far less heavy than the burden of being a liar.

thats not really what i was saying. I was saying that the burden of being truthful is equal to the burden of being a liar.

 

Hehe, I just thought it would be fun to copy your words like that.

 

Well, what I mean... If you follow the path of truth, allot of people will disagree with you. So to keep things harmonious, you will have to lie 90% of the time or just get into fights and arguements or disagreements.

[Everything]

everything said is true false and irrelevant from a trine of points of view.

 

thinking that lies are truths and truths are lies tho is a slippery slope. Best to stay on the path of virtue and give the truth a fair chance. There's a lot of power in truth.

Thats the truth. and a lie? uhm yeah... Noo... its truth!

 

Sorry, I'm thinking too much

[konchog uma]

thats not really what i was saying. I was saying that the burden of being truthful is equal to the burden of being a liar.

 

Hehe, I just thought it would be fun to copy your words like that.

 

Well, what I mean... If you follow the path of truth, allot of people will disagree with you. So to keep things harmonious, you will have to lie 90% of the time or just get into fights and arguements or disagreements.

 

hahaha i know what you mean. I am a total hermit, and don't really talk to people, or go out and socialize at all. So i avoid the whole conundrum by not trying to throw truth in anyone's face. If you find that a truthful nature is at odds with your social nature, i suggest saying less, but making your words count more..

 

when you lie to people, sometimes it is with good reason, like to avoid conflict. But be aware of your actions is my advice, this is more valuable than being truthful on principle. Be aware of when you lie and Why you lie. I also advise don't be a wanton liar just to please people thats a bad habit which leads to trouble. But you probably know that already :D Anyway, as you watch your behaviors you will see your nature, which is ultimately more valuable than clinging to dogma like "i should tell the truth".

 

there is more power in truth because it matches up with actual reality, it has actual power behind it. Lies don't have that power, they can only mislead and misdirect, they don't have the power of actual reality behind them.

[XieJia]

Accepting all the Lies, One comes to Truth.

Denying all the Lies, One comes to Truth.

 

Truth can becomes a shield.

What is there to fight?

What is there to argue?

 

 

Why do you want to wake people up?

We can only wake ourselves up.

[Protector]

[Everything]

Why do you want to wake people up?

We can only wake ourselves up.

Its fcking lonely out here, thats why!

 

Just kidding. I've never felt more deeply connected to other people.

 

Sometimes dangerous things tend to happen, and I wake people up. Like when people get real angry, sad or afraid. It seems that convincing that everything is a lie or fake or dreamlike works all the time. All the time... It just increases the size of their pupils, opens their jaws, puts them in a position of awe and grace. It seems to be the ultimate truth, the light that shines within you even in the darkest corners of life.

 

Its like those people who are not afraid to die and don't seem to feel pain. They are afraid, they feel pain, yet they know its fake. Fear and anger looses its control over them. They regain their powers and freedom. Hooray

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Actually, i don't think about 'truth' too much, it seems that history is littered with discarded 'truths'.. i try to simply pay attention to what is happening, to 'look' with unconditional sincerity.. i try to notice the differences between what creates harmony and what creates harm, and.. i intend to do no harm, as a result of processes with which i have influence..

 

Be well..

[Everything]

Fine, no more being nice. You are not talking about the truth, you are just looking at the mask of something thinking that it's the true face. But you know that face so go back to the simplest form of power and read this

 

 

 

If you understand, forget about this thread and go on

I don't understand.

 

Prefering uncertainty over my state of confusion, I am now certainly confused

[Protector]

Don't know if I should laugh or cry since this is a Taoist forum

 

 

And since this is a Taoist forum after all, I will let you meditate on your own

[Lucky7Strikes]

To follow your senses, emotions, intuition is the way to live. As long as you come with the good constructive intention that is intuitevely picked with the greater reality as a reference point, the right words seem to flow automaticly from your mouth. It seems to fit the situation perfectly everytime. Only love came out of this in my experience...

 

What do you guys think about truth?

When you are following your intuition, there is no longer a sense of intuition. Intuition, senses, emotions are only so when you break them into their barriers. Terms like intuition is for the person who does not understand it. I think a similar analysis applies to truth or what not. At a certain point you simply are, there is just being. As frightening as it can be, imo the paradox of all of this is only seen by the dualistic eye. The non-dual vision doesn't ask questions, its more of the question being left as it is.

 

I guess what remains then is the mystery of our existence. The deeper you sink into it and the more it reveals itself, I believe the mystery deepens into, as you say, the uncertainty rather than knowledge. Because ultimately certainties are all lies and blockages. Uncertainty is potential and possibilities, it's an opening to a structure-less states of awareness.

 

Keep the good topics coming!

Edited October 24, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Everything]

Greetings..

 

Actually, i don't think about 'truth' too much, it seems that history is littered with discarded 'truths'.. i try to simply pay attention to what is happening, to 'look' with unconditional sincerity.. i try to notice the differences between what creates harmony and what creates harm, and.. i intend to do no harm, as a result of processes with which i have influence..

 

Be well..

What you have influence and not influence over seems to exist within the spectrum of lie/truth. I think its very possible that you might live beyond truth/lie, but putting that into words is really hard or not possible. I think we can only hint that such a path exists.

[Everything]

certainties are all lies and blockages.

Certainties are certainly limiting! It seems that way to me aswell. I'm not sure of this

[Everything]

Don't know if I should laugh or cry since this is a Taoist forum

Have you tried both at the same time? It is enlightening to say to the least...

[Lucky7Strikes]

Certainties are certainly limiting! It seems that way to me aswell. I'm not sure of this

It only reads paradoxical and even hypocritical in language. But in experience which precedes words, it makes more sense, since it speaks more to an approach to life than logical analysis.

[zanshin]

Its fcking lonely out here, thats why!

 

Just kidding. I've never felt more deeply connected to other people.

 

Sometimes dangerous things tend to happen, and I wake people up. Like when people get real angry, sad or afraid. It seems that convincing that everything is a lie or fake or dreamlike works all the time. All the time... It just increases the size of their pupils, opens their jaws, puts them in a position of awe and grace. It seems to be the ultimate truth, the light that shines within you even in the darkest corners of life.

 

Its like those people who are not afraid to die and don't seem to feel pain. They are afraid, they feel pain, yet they know its fake. Fear and anger looses its control over them. They regain their powers and freedom. Hooray

 

Other people's truth is not the same as yours. I try to understand why rather than being angry or upset about that, then maybe I might try to convince them otherwise or more often realize their truth is right for them. Why do you seem to think a dichotomy between lie or fake and truth or real, but in the applications we talked about on this thread it is more of continuum. Sometimes people get tired of fear and pain and see death as friend coming, they give it up to a higher power- by which I mean death and going peacefully into the unknown, not necessarily anything supernatural.