"Mysterious Pass"

[TaoDownunder]

Hi people. Have been reading some Thomas Cleary recently. Extracts from various authors. The mysterious pass is frequently referred to, but no clues re its location. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge in this regard?

Thanks. Mike.

[Marblehead]

It is my understanding that this is the Gate between the Manifest and the Mystery Lao Tzu spoke of.

 

No, other than what Lao Tzu has said I have no other support for my understanding.

 

Yes, it is "mysterious" but it is no secret and once you attain the state of Wu Wei it is my understanding that you have passed through that gate.

[deci belle]

Edited October 29, 2011 by deci belle

[konchog uma]

as deci says it is not physical. As i understand it it has to do with not letting the mind rest on the physical body, or the energy body, or the spiritual body, that is, jing chi and shen. But instead the mind rests equally on all 3, and in doing so, avoid preoccupations and obsessions with any of them. So when the mind is equally aware yet not "attached" or preoccupied with any of the 3 bodies, physical, energy, consciousness, one has found the mysterious pass.

 

edit: that is something i just read today in "Daoist Nei Gong" by Damo Mitchell so i am by no means an authority, nor have i ever seen the phrase outside the TTC or Daoist Nei Gong.

Edited October 27, 2011 by anamatva

[Trunk]

Read the core vessel & deep-center info here.

[gj551]

[dawei]

I often maintain that Xuan as mysterious is the wrong way to translate and think of the chinese word. It represents Heaven, as opposed to Earth; so think of it as part of the cycle of Yin and Yang. Instead of mystery think origin or beginning. Some may view the great void as a dark mysterious place and dub it Xuan. Others might see it as that state where all things began or originate, and dub it Xuan. Same word but different feeling.

 

If you think of it as a mystery then your likely not going to find an understanding by virtue of how you have just defined it; if you think of it as origin then you find there is no mystery to it.

[ChiDragon]

How about when Xuan(玄) means "deep and profound(玄之又玄)".

[gj551]

that state where all things began or originate

"the place where all the things meet you" the verve - bitter sweet symphony

[dawei]

[gj551]

hey please give this a thought, in the tibetan book of the dead the soul traverses 'bardos' or planes of existence.. the first one of it, the chikhai bardo is defined as clear light whereas in the second and third one meets with deities who provide the voyager with some hallucinatory experiences. do you think this could refer to hsuan kuan being shed light on in a buddhist framework? the point to be made is that the TBOTD does not attribute to it powers of healing and the like

 

this is how evantz wentz translated it

[instructions on the Symptoms of Death, or the First Stage of the Chikhai Bardo: The Primary Clear Light Seen at the Moment of Death]

 

The first, the setting-face-to-face with the Clear Light, during the Intermediate State of the Moments of Death, is:

 

Here [some there may be] who have listened much [to religious instructions] yet not recognized; and [some] who, though recognizing, are, nevertheless, weak in familiarity. But all classes of individuals who have received the practical teachings [called] Guides will, if this be applied to them, be set face to face with the fundamental Clear Light; and, without any Intermediate State, they will obtain the Unborn Dharma-Kāya, by the Great Perpendicular Path.

dude that clear light thingy is, like, a double episode with batman

Edited March 10, 2012 by gj551

[doc benway]

[suninmyeyes]

deci ,amazing post. Long time no see, come back and play.

[dawei]

Ok... The meaning of Xuan is greatly debated... Here is a seemingly minor idea with great implication:

 

The oracle bones show Xuan as a perfect figure "8".

 

Now, realize that Western 'time' is horizontal and this sideways "8" means Infinity.

 

Now, realize that China 'time' is vertical and .... "8"

 

I will note that Flowing Hands transmission of the DDJ1 has Xuan as "infinity"... I am chomping at the bit to get to that point in our other discussion !!!

[findley]

I remember reading alot about that...

 

The mysterious pass is the gateway between your conscious being and Nothingness. That being said, the gate does not really 'exist'. It is like a Zen Koan-- it puts your mind to rest on Nothing. When you 'pass the gate', your mind is no longer actively fixed on anything. It is truly at rest. and so at peace.

 

That is how the ancient Daoists described it in their primitive terminology. You must realize that however they have introduced these techniques to us, theirs is still a primitive understanding of what is really going on.

 

If you are genuinely interested in enlightened understanding, I would suggest you avoid interpreting the experience through religious (ie buddhist) or alchemical (ie primitive daoist) terms. They reek of ignorance =p

[ChiDragon]

I think a point with merit has been made.

[flowing hands]

The 'gateway' can mean many things: a simple explanation is the change in perception of the world around, achieved by self cultivation. It can also mean when a shaman has been accepted by a spirit master and then the 'gateway' to the spirit world has been opened. The shaman then lives in two worlds; those that are mortal and those that are just energy.

[Wayfarer]

[taiwabbit]

This thread looks like it has been around for a bit but then again time is just a measure of change.

 

The reference about manifesting from the mind to the physical reminds me of something I learned from one of the various tests I have read. (Apologies for not being able to cite it as there have been such a variety of books and texts studied that they are kind of running together). I’m 85% sure it was from the second translated text in:

Nourishing the essence of life : the outer, inner, and secret teachings of Taoism / translated with an introduction by Eva Wong

 

That would be the text of Wu Hsuan p’ien. It may have been from Tai Hsuan p’ien. Can’t remember.

 

But anyway, the concept really clicked with me and changed the way that the energy moves in my body during Tai Chi practice. The concept is that the mysterious pass in not a physical location, but rather a place between the thought (or intention) of the mind and the actual activation and movement of the muscles and tendons. There is a spiritual place located between these two things. The text mentions if one can find this place then a person could become “a wizard”. I’m not really interested in being a wizard but presume that means that the place is perceived as spiritual in nature.

 

In that space between the two is where I have learned that I can insert and focus the energy directed through the “Grand Martial Circulation” (as taught by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming) to allow the energy to move my body during the form rather than doing it with my mind per se. William. C.C. Chen was the first person I had heard that spoke of letting the energy move you during the form rather than the mind. So using the mysterious pass is the gate for me to move the circulating energy into my form and it has made A LOT of differences in a lot of ways. I am still exploring the area.

[Riyue]

edit:

In Huang Ting Nei Jing and at Xiuzhentu one can read about xuan guan...

Edited July 23, 2013 by Riyue

[taiwabbit]

OK,

 

Correction, the translated book was:

The book of balance and harmony : a Taoist handbook / Translated by Thomas Cleary. Author: Li, Daochun, 1219-1296.

 

So this author used the analogy of a marionette puppet. The mind is the hand controlling the puppet. The puppet itself is like the body. The myserious pass would be the strings. That place between the mind and the body. The connection, or the pass between the two.

[cheya]

Hi taiwabbit,

Love to hear you expand a bit on how you go about doing this...

 

taiwabbit wrote:

In that space between the two is where I have learned that I can insert and focus the energy directed through the “Grand Martial Circulation” (as taught by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming) to allow the energy to move my body during the form rather than doing it with my mind per se. William. C.C. Chen was the first person I had heard that spoke of letting the energy move you during the form rather than the mind. So using the mysterious pass is the gate for me to move the circulating energy into my form and it has made A LOT of differences in a lot of ways. I am still exploring the area.

[taiwabbit]

Hi taiwabbit,

Love to hear you expand a bit on how you go about doing this...

 

 

 

Which part?

Edited August 14, 2013 by taiwabbit

[cheya]

"to allow the energy to move my body during the form rather than doing it with my mind per se"

[taiwabbit]

"to allow the energy to move my body during the form rather than doing it with my mind per se"

OK, I have been thinking about this trying to capture the thing into words. Hard to do. Will keep trying and post when I catch it.