In search for true companions of the Way

[fatguyslim]

[Sloppy Zhang]

[Protector]

Taoism existed since before the existence of civilization and us humans. The words might be new and many have lots of opinions on them but the essence is the same and words can't capture it.

 

and I can manipulate whatever I want so hush

[Jetsun]

Reading Lui I-Ming changed a lot of things for me too and I am still studying and trying to understand his works, the worrying thing though is that he stresses that it is almost impossible to get anywhere without a genuine teacher and he lived in a period of time in China where Taoism was relatively prosperous and he still couldn't find a genuine teacher until near the end of his life despite searching consistently, so where does that leave us now in our era now that many Taoist teachers have been purged? It makes me think that at during this era in time we might be more likely to find genuine high level teachers within Buddhism, yet I think I do prefer the Taoist approach in many ways so the search continues.

[konchog uma]

Hi fatguyslim,

 

I have whittled my social circle down to a few people for the reasons you mention. Better to have a few real friends than a lot of people who drag you down.

 

I don't think you need a teacher or friends with awesome virtue, since you have the classics to work from. Rectitude, purity, integrity, and virtue are necessary at a stage of personal development, but few people in today's world are at that stage, and even many powerful internalists lack those qualities. But i think if a person develops themselves according to virtue and integrity, they will attract people into their lives who reflect this. Its a law of attraction, so you can count on it. In other words, its enough just to work on oneself from books and let life bring to you who it will.

 

Most often i have found with self-proclaimed daoists, there is a tendency to indulge in lifes pleasures and intoxications, thinking that is dao. And it is! But there are very refined stages of being beyond that, and to access them, i Think that one has to put the tendencies to indulge down, and get serious about their integrity. Some people who get close to serious about integrity will divorce themselves from the world, eschewing society, and online forums like this one, in favor of just being a hermit. There are all kinds of people though, and i hope that since you put out such a sincere beacon, you will get something excellent in response.

 

I have long recognized the need for integrity, but only lately in my development have i really put down those things and attitudes which were keeping me from realizing a robust integrity. So i am no expert in the subject, and all the above jabber is just how it seems from my point of view. Best wishes in your search for "true people" i have found that misguided people are common. And even those who think they are virtuous and say they are virtuous are more common than those who are actually living according to the old way. But the rewards of living a nice clean life with no loose ends more than make up for all the nonsense that ones old friends, habits, and haunts were filling their head with. So its not as hard to walk away from "the dust of the world" as it seems when youre caught up in it. I hope you stay firmly on the path and that teachers and friends avail themselves to you as you cultivate your virtue! Blessings!

[fatguyslim]

Hi fatguyslim,

 

I have whittled my social circle down to a few people for the reasons you mention. Better to have a few real friends than a lot of people who drag you down.

 

I don't think you need a teacher or friends with awesome virtue, since you have the classics to work from. Rectitude, purity, integrity, and virtue are necessary at a stage of personal development, but few people in today's world are at that stage, and even many powerful internalists lack those qualities. But i think if a person develops themselves according to virtue and integrity, they will attract people into their lives who reflect this. Its a law of attraction, so you can count on it. In other words, its enough just to work on oneself from books and let life bring to you who it will.

 

Most often i have found with self-proclaimed daoists, there is a tendency to indulge in lifes pleasures and intoxications, thinking that is dao. And it is! But there are very refined stages of being beyond that, and to access them, i Think that one has to put the tendencies to indulge down, and get serious about their integrity. Some people who get close to serious about integrity will divorce themselves from the world, eschewing society, and online forums like this one, in favor of just being a hermit. There are all kinds of people though, and i hope that since you put out such a sincere beacon, you will get something excellent in response.

 

I have long recognized the need for integrity, but only lately in my development have i really put down those things and attitudes which were keeping me from realizing a robust integrity. So i am no expert in the subject, and all the above jabber is just how it seems from my point of view. Best wishes in your search for "true people" i have found that misguided people are common. And even those who think they are virtuous and say they are virtuous are more common than those who are actually living according to the old way. But the rewards of living a nice clean life with no loose ends more than make up for all the nonsense that ones old friends, habits, and haunts were filling their head with. So its not as hard to walk away from "the dust of the world" as it seems when youre caught up in it. I hope you stay firmly on the path and that teachers and friends avail themselves to you as you cultivate your virtue! Blessings!

 

Thank you and I will keep your words in my thought. It was very kind sharing your views as it helps a lot. Cheers

[fatguyslim]

Reading Lui I-Ming changed a lot of things for me too and I am still studying and trying to understand his works, the worrying thing though is that he stresses that it is almost impossible to get anywhere without a genuine teacher and he lived in a period of time in China where Taoism was relatively prosperous and he still couldn't find a genuine teacher until near the end of his life despite searching consistently, so where does that leave us now in our era now that many Taoist teachers have been purged? It makes me think that at during this era in time we might be more likely to find genuine high level teachers within Buddhism, yet I think I do prefer the Taoist approach in many ways so the search continues.

 

Very true words indeed... I believe you too are beginning to see the importance of teachers and companions. Keep reading my friend and hopefully you will see something in the teachings that I fail to see... Good luck!

[fatguyslim]

Taoism existed since before the existence of civilization and us humans. The words might be new and many have lots of opinions on them but the essence is the same and words can't capture it.

 

and I can manipulate whatever I want so hush

 

Well played

[fatguyslim]

I'm not a teacher/sage/master so.... yeah, I'm just wondering about what your reading recommendations are

 

I would strongly recommend to study Liu I-ming (his commentary on Chang Po-tuan and the I Ching surpass all other texts that I have ever read), Confucius (reading as much as you can on this guy), The Essential Mengzi (other commentaries can be misleading), Journey to the West (Anthony C. Yu's translation exceeds every other book that I have ever read), Dharma Jewel platform Sutra by Master Hsuan Hua (few things in this book wont appeal to westerners but best Buddhist book I have ever read)[http://www.fodian.net/world/Platform-Sutra.pdf].

 

Liu I-ming is an 18th Century Taoist adept and he in his subtle harshness warns about people falling into sidetracks and false teachers, time and again. I have few of these books in pdf. Send me a private message and I will send you the links. Cheers

[deci belle]

[fatguyslim]

[manitou]

Fatguyslim - how pertinent your questions seem to be, and your quest for true companions of the Way is something I crave as well.

 

I too believe that the Te in Tao Te Ching does involve the inner work. There are plenty who can talk about Te, but the words have not come alive yet. This all seems to be within the Tao's timing within each of our lifetimes. In my particular case, the Te part came before I even knew the TTC existed. It came through my crashing alcoholism and the subsequent working of the steps of recovery. By the time I found the TTC, the inner alchemy part was well underway. It continues to this day, and I expect will continue until I slip out of this skin.

 

I think that within each life there are opportunities presented to us to go within and straighten ourselves out, align our mindsets with that of the Tao, the action of reversion to the One. Love always lies at the bottom of our actions, even if love means something different in each circumstance. The inner alchemy removes the false shell of ego that we've developed over the years; only the problem is that the false shell is all contorted starting with the lies we were handed as kids. We had not much choice but to accept the mindsets of our parents. Maturity is to question that which was shoved down our young throats; maturity is to question the religion we had strapped on us as kids. Maturity within the Tao is to know that within each person, regardless of how seeming evil or unkind, lies a shining lump of gold. The unkind man would have a serene and balanced life if he chose to go within and eliminate the unkind elements of his personality.

 

And realization that we all have that lump of gold at the pit of our Essence is to realize that we are all brothers; we are all part of the same Entity, the gold. The pure. The shining. It's like we're a zillion-armed creature that emits nothing but love and wisdom when we've cleaned ourselves out and allowed it to shine.

[deci belle]

Who's we? Who is the friend you refer to? Why is this a consistent referent? What does this person have to do with your self-refinement? And why are you looking for MORE friends?

 

Harsh is relative, fatguy. Yet you are judgmental of those knowledgeable few who do not fit your preconceived criteria:

Everywhere we seem to stretch our hands for help, we get given answers with zero potential to follow the path and mostly empty words.

 

We have come across people who seem to know a lot of stuff about Inner alchemy but their actions are different to what they read, study and write so it's hard to ask questions and discuss about stuff as it seems inappropriate and fruitless.

 

Zero potential, huh? You have not set eyes on potential, oh picky one. Empty words? You beg the question. Again, the touch-stone for seeking is this: see essence on your own, THEN seek a teacher.

 

Why? It is not found in others. Just call back other to your self. Essence is the self; Sense, true lead, real knowledge is found in other. Other is impersonal awareness. If you cannot grab metal out of water, you have no basis to work on. You have to get wet yourself before you can absorb the real in the false, and share with the other of others.

 

Why do you keep coming up empty-handed? Who are you calling a hypocrite? The original schools were formed not for initiates, but for those who were accomplished— in other words, for those who had something to offer. If you are so empty-handed, why is that, hmmmm?

 

As I told you before, you are overly afraid to make a mistake, which is ludicrous at this point because you have nothing to loose (nothing real to offer), because you have not accomplished anything real.

 

You were whining six months ago and you are whining now. Did you re-post your original thread this time?

 

You are in need of harshness and I am happy to oblige.

 

I had a perceptive mind at one time, even with my walker and hearing aid, yet that did not stop me. I had no "friends". There were no others to ask, much less share the intimacies of self-refinement. No internet, no forums. I opened myself to the world. Reality is found in the heart of delusion. They are one and the same. Picking the real out of the false is alchemy.

 

Looking for sympathy? How are you ever going to drop your skin-bag when you only want to take the world with you?

 

You are only going to get sympathy from those who have not been where you claim you want to go.

 

If you want to go there and do that yourself, you are going to have to get to work, dear.❤

 

(ed. note: hot-rod last two lines)

Edited October 31, 2011 by deci belle

[fatguyslim]