How to "want" to do something

[Everything]

It seems that I cannot go against my own will or nature of desire. No matter how much will I use to reach a goal, if I don't want to do the things I need to do, I never reach the goal and never even make any significant progress. Its not about the goal, its about the steps that we have to take to get there. I already realized that we cannot use the will to stick to a journey. "I'm going to do it even though I don't want it!" doesn't work. If I want do something, like play the piano, I do it even without any conscious effort on my part. It just happens. I think of a cup of tea and before I know it I'm behind a piano practicing some random song. How can I bring this effortlessness into every aspect of my life?

 

How to create a desire of taking those steps in your journey? To do the things necesary in order to reach the goal. Without this desire, or without any desire, I make no progress whatsoever. Just desiring the goal is not enough. I need to desire the steps to reach that goal aswell? If so, how to go about creating such a desire?

 

I might have asked the wrong questions, but I hope I gave enough information here for you to understand where I'm at. The topic title conveys honestly my current level of awareness.

 

Any advice/guidance on this is very much appreciated. If changing desires is impossible, I'll have to look elsewhere for the solution of this problem. Is it also possible that something is blocking me from creating this desire? What could it be, if it were so.

 

Looking forward to replies, my eyes are all open

Edited November 1, 2011 by Everything

[Ish]

I seem to have a similar problem, wasn't like this a few years ago, but if I don't have the desire/motivation to do something it's like getting blood from a stone to get it done.

 

People usually call this laziness . But it feels different.

[XieJia]

I don't think I know too much on the subject but this is what I can share with you.

Wanting 'no wanting' is still wanting.

 

Taking breathing for example;

 

the desire 'to breath'

the desire 'not to breath'

the desire 'to lengthen the breath'

the desire 'to shorten the breath'

the desire 'to breath in rhythm'

the desire 'not to breath in rhythm'

 

one will find that the 'desire' is independent of the 'act' of breathing itself.

and that the 'act' of breathing does not depends on the 'desire'.

 

When one breath in, one has to breath out.

When one breath out, one has to breath in.

This goes accordingly to the moment.

 

such are the same with work, family, responsibilities, studies

one act accordingly to the task at hand in the present.

 

Toy with the idea then share with the bums; I am sure that many bums can give wonderful inputs.

 

Take care now Everything.

 

Edited November 1, 2011 by XieJia

[Protector]

same thing 5 times in a row now

can't wait for you to figure it out

[Jetsun]

Essentially we have conflicting parts of ourselves which want different things. Alchemy is about fusing these different parts of your psyche so all of who you are is moving in the same direction rather than pulling in many different directions at once. The person who explains this process best for me is G.I. Gurdjieff and he explains what blocks progress when we try to obtain a goal through the "Law of Octaves", but these concepts are very big areas of study and hard to summarise in a post, many books have been written on this subject of how to develop genuine will.

[Lucky7Strikes]

This has been a problem for me as long as I can remember. I just can't get myself to do things without a genuine desire to do them. Understandably, this type of attitude has given me a lot of trouble with school and sometimes results in a rebounded states of laziness. The other extreme is addictive behaviors that result from over fixation on goals/fantasies/states of being where you are entrapped by a certain activity (or a person), becoming lost in them.

 

IME the duality of addiction/repulsion are very much related, as in the preference for one state is also the cause for the repulsion of the other because the scale is already tipped one way in the mind; there is a type of reassurance that happens every time a certain urge comes up again.

 

The answer is, as always it seems, the middle way. Instead of trying to control or conjure desires, to guide them and finally transform them. Our intuitive desires are most often what guides us anyway and one should honor its direction instead of trying to artificially construct one's own wants and dislikes. To an outsider it may seem that your sense of preferences have not changed at all, but in your mind there is no longer the constant deliberation between what "should be" and "should not be." You are simply yourself.

 

In Buddhist terms I guess this could be understood as getting rid of karmic residue, and Taoists might call it fulfilling one's destiny.

 

Just 2 cents...

Edited November 1, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[manitou]

Yes, I too end up in front of the keyboard far too often too.

 

What I do to get something done that I 'don't have any particular desire to do' is just to make a list of everything that needs to get done. Cross things off the list as they get done.

 

Sorry if this was too simplistic. But nothing feels better than throwing that damn list away after all items are crossed off.

[Jeff]

There is a flow and everything just happens. Try to feel the flow. The issue comes from your perceived desires and the judgements that you are making around the stuff/activities. Take a look at why you believe there is a difference between drinking tea & playing the piano compared to taking out the trash. How does it "feel" different?

 

You don't repress or stop desires. They fade away on their own. It is more about accepting that you have to take out the trash and just do it. No need to judge. Like I tell my children, people spend more time "worrying about a test" than actually "studying for a test."

 

Or, as Manitou simply stated... Make a list and just do it.

 

[Everything]

same thing 5 times in a row now

can't wait for you to figure it out

5 little steps? it seems like I'm moving backwards on each step.

[zanshin]

Just do it!

 

 

er...yeah, it's a link to a nike ad, but it is sort of quirky and relevant to the discussion.

[Protector]

5 little steps? it seems like I'm moving backwards on each step.

 

No, I meant you made 5 threads on the same topic and still don't get it

[Everything]

Essentially we have conflicting parts of ourselves which want different things. Alchemy is about fusing these different parts of your psyche so all of who you are is moving in the same direction rather than pulling in many different directions at once. The person who explains this process best for me is G.I. Gurdjieff and he explains what blocks progress when we try to obtain a goal through the "Law of Octaves", but these concepts are very big areas of study and hard to summarise in a post, many books have been written on this subject of how to develop genuine will.

Thanks, I'll look into that.

[JohnC]

It seems that I cannot go against my own will or nature of desire. No matter how much will I use to reach a goal, if I don't want to do the things I need to do, I never reach the goal and never even make any significant progress. Its not about the goal, its about the steps that we have to take to get there. I already realized that we cannot use the will to stick to a journey. "I'm going to do it even though I don't want it!" doesn't work. If I want do something, like play the piano, I do it even without any conscious effort on my part. It just happens. I think of a cup of tea and before I know it I'm behind a piano practicing some random song. How can I bring this effortlessness into every aspect of my life?

 

How to create a desire of taking those steps in your journey? To do the things necesary in order to reach the goal. Without this desire, or without any desire, I make no progress whatsoever. Just desiring the goal is not enough. I need to desire the steps to reach that goal aswell? If so, how to go about creating such a desire?

 

I might have asked the wrong questions, but I hope I gave enough information here for you to understand where I'm at. The topic title conveys honestly my current level of awareness.

 

Any advice/guidance on this is very much appreciated. If changing desires is impossible, I'll have to look elsewhere for the solution of this problem. Is it also possible that something is blocking me from creating this desire? What could it be, if it were so.

 

Looking forward to replies, my eyes are all open

 

You just do. You feel what you want, and it's as simple as that.

 

But that isn't to be confused the challenges that come up along the way of getting what you want.

 

The real issue is why do you think you want what you want? Because there are genuine desires for things, then there are desires for things so that you can actually get something else.

 

Money is an example. People want a million dollars, but what they actually want is to go have fun and use the money. Or they want security, or whatever. The money is just a means.

 

When you can actually just go for what you actually want.

 

But consider if you are getting stopped a lot and having a hard time motivating yourself, that you don't want it bad enough. Like if you were dieing of thirst, and I had a glass of water, but you had to walk across a bed of broken glass to get to me, you'd suddenly become John McClane and you'd get that glass of water.

That you are comfy.

 

Some ways to help though, is you can explore what is challenging you and stopping you from moving forward. That the challenges you feel, and think up in your mind become so great, that it gets in the way of you moving.

 

So part of it is deprogramming, part exploring what you want and part of it is fucking ignoring what you feel and acting anyway.

 

John

[Everything]

No, I meant you made 5 threads on the same topic and still don't get it

No I meant I actually am going backwards in my understanding. I'm more confused now then when I began. I am further away from getting it. I can't seem to find the answer in the previous so I try to go deeper to the problem.

 

Well, the stress topic is not for my self. Just some random idea to deal with passiveness. This motivation thing hasn't always been a problem though. I can't seem to accomplish anything if I cannot create my own desires. When I no longer fear thigs, I even loose that motivation of fear.

[Protector]

No, I meant I'm trying to confuse you even more

[Everything]

You just do. You feel what you want, and it's as simple as that.

 

But that isn't to be confused the challenges that come up along the way of getting what you want.

 

The real issue is why do you think you want what you want? Because there are genuine desires for things, then there are desires for things so that you can actually get something else.

 

Money is an example. People want a million dollars, but what they actually want is to go have fun and use the money. Or they want security, or whatever. The money is just a means.

 

When you can actually just go for what you actually want.

 

But consider if you are getting stopped a lot and having a hard time motivating yourself, that you don't want it bad enough. Like if you were dieing of thirst, and I had a glass of water, but you had to walk across a bed of broken glass to get to me, you'd suddenly become John McClane and you'd get that glass of water.

That you are comfy.

 

Some ways to help though, is you can explore what is challenging you and stopping you from moving forward. That the challenges you feel, and think up in your mind become so great, that it gets in the way of you moving.

 

So part of it is deprogramming, part exploring what you want and part of it is fucking ignoring what you feel and acting anyway.

 

John

I do NOT desire the thing I want to do. Yet, I have decided to do it anyway. If I cannot succeed, I fail. I know thinking about it too long doesn't help, but I wish to deal with this once and for all. I know I can do it, cause I have desired it before. I don't want to do it anymore. Honestly. Its not that I'm confused about it. I don't want to do it. Instead of positive programming, negative deprogramming sounds like a plausible idea though. Thanks. I will consider it.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Everything

[suninmyeyes]

Take one thing at the time and concentrate on it .Keep it in mind as a must.

Choose a practise(qi gong ,meditation..) and stick to it no matter what for 6 months at least.Just always keep it in mind as a must at least for some time a day.

If you have practise ,then practise more.

Practise through everything like: being fidgety, bored, fed up, stressed, worried, happy, scared...

This will give you a lot of motivation, focus and fuel in a long run .

I think spiritual practises are great and such helpful as a tool especially when done daily. It is incredible tresure , I am big fan. You can even learn how to remove psychic blocks/obstructions without taking only a psychological route.

 

Otherwise,

either you need to really get fed up super properly with the current state of affairs in your life and then you will get motivated or you start paying attention seriously or do whatever you are doing , but keep it in mind as an idea -that way you are planting a seed that will sprout at some point, but you may have to wait for a while though.

[Everything]

Meditate on my desires, see what desire in relation to the goal is blocking my progress and deprogram it or let it go, then plant the new desire alone and focus on it for a few days to make it a reality.

 

Think thats a good idea that has a chance of succeeding?

[Everything]

I don't think I know too much on the subject but this is what I can share with you.

Wanting 'no wanting' is still wanting.

 

Taking breathing for example;

 

the desire 'to breath'

the desire 'not to breath'

the desire 'to lengthen the breath'

the desire 'to shorten the breath'

the desire 'to breath in rhythm'

the desire 'not to breath in rhythm'

 

one will find that the 'desire' is independent of the 'act' of breathing itself.

and that the 'act' of breathing does not depends on the 'desire'.

 

When one breath in, one has to breath out.

When one breath out, one has to breath in.

This goes accordingly to the moment.

 

such are the same with work, family, responsibilities, studies

one act accordingly to the task at hand in the present.

 

Toy with the idea then share with the bums; I am sure that many bums can give wonderful inputs.

 

Take care now Everything.

 

If I breath in, I desire to breath out and out desire to breath in. I'm familiar with this rythm and vibration of life.

What I'm talking about is actually changing the balance point. I want to fluctuate around a certain task. If I don't practice enough music, I desire to and I automaticly do. If I practice too much, I automatically let go and do something else. I can easily focus on something if I am motivated to do so for hours in a row. Sometimes this deep focus puts me in trance states that bring about even more progress. If I'm not motivated at all, not even a little,, I can hardly focus for 3 minutes. So it requires allot of conscious effort and it still doesn't work. Without my subconscious backing me up, it is useless to even try. That much I've experienced. If there is absolutely not even a single desire to do something, I either transcend desire and nondesire or I just create desire. Else I'm only walking in circles and going nowhere.

 

For example, I can easily take out the trash because I don't want the house to stink. Sometimes I don't want to stink my self to stink, so this overrides that one and I don't take it out if someone else will. I cannot easily increase my desire for the house not to stink or take out the trash. No idea how. Even worse, How on earth to create a desire that is not even there and make it strong?

 

Taking out the trash is an easy task that can even be done against your will with little conscious effort. A difficult task will require more conscious effort then I can give it when I have no desire to do this task. Sometimes I desire the goal but not the task itself, steps to reach the goal.

 

So how do you suggest I transcend desire? Even when I feel like I experience god and nothingness or source of, I can still not succeed at a task that I have no desire to do. I have, however, not yet tried to use this god bliss to make positive desires or believes about the task I'm not willing to do. Anyone ever tried that?

Edited November 1, 2011 by Everything

[Everything]

Yes, I too end up in front of the keyboard far too often too.

 

What I do to get something done that I 'don't have any particular desire to do' is just to make a list of everything that needs to get done. Cross things off the list as they get done.

 

Sorry if this was too simplistic. But nothing feels better than throwing that damn list away after all items are crossed off.

I think this might very well be the best answer to my question. It provides more structure and at the same time creates a desire. Not doing anything else before the list is done will require very little conscious effort. So I will just get angry after applying this little conscious effort for a while. This anger will give me energy to get trough the tasks I don't want to get trough. Then the reward will reinforce this habbit of getting trough the list. This list is a limit that creates frustration that motivates me to do the thing I don't want to do. When I don't abide by these frustrating rules I can severely punish my self and label my self as failure and get totally disgusted by my self or just withhold from eating or slap my self. This will create fear that enforces my motivation to do the tasks I don't want to do. So thanks, Manitou. I will have to use this method until I find a better solution to this motivation problem. I wont orture my self too much on this, though. Unless I need to... I think the fear and anger from not receiving the reward will be sufficient and most effective. I recall that punishment works less effective then desire for reward after a certain task is done. Like training a dog trough reward. I can enslave my self more easily trough rewards aswell.

 

If anyone has any idea on how to create a change at the being level, I'm still open for that aswell. To evolve my consciousness to a point where I can create my own desires instead of only using the desires I have at my disposal. To honestly, positively, directly, desire to do a certain task that I previously did not desire. That would be so much better. Else I'll just have to do with this one.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Everything

[Everything]

No, I meant I'm trying to confuse you even more

You bastard

 

...wait, do you mean we have to confuse our minds first in order to prepare the soil to plant a new desire? That sounds plausible. This little desire seed could grow into a full tree by feeding it the awareness, by using the tool of focus, trough our little conscious effort. Perhaps a matter of applying the necessary leverage here and there.

[Aaron]

Hello Everything,

 

I was going to comment on this, but I got distracted and forgot to. Anyways, let me start by saying if you don't want to do something, there's no reason why you should want to do it. If it's something you have to do, then just do it, simple as that. There's no need to expound and extrapolate about this, it's actually very simple to understand. We are all forced to do some things we don't like (perhaps an awful lot of things) that doesn't mean they don't have to be done. You either suck it up and get going, or you can sit alone and complain about things that need to get done.

 

I hate housekeeping by the way. It takes a monumental force of will for me to motivate myself to clean my house.

 

Aaron

[XieJia]

So how do you suggest I transcend desire? Even when I feel like I experience god and nothingness or source of, I can still not succeed at a task that I have no desire to do. I have, however, not yet tried to use this god bliss to make positive desires or believes about the task I'm not willing to do. Anyone ever tried that?

 

Take away God or Nothingness (Don't bring them into the picture).

 

The desire/no desire you feels or see is illusional.

The desire of 'not wanting to do something' is still a desire.

A desire to overcome that desire of 'not wanting to do something' is also a desire.

 

It's your will against your will;

The Dao is not about your will.

 

Like many have said;

Just Do What Needs Done.

 

Don't talk about transcending 'Desire'.

Take things as it come and goes.

 

Be With Care

 

[manitou]

No I meant I actually am going backwards in my understanding. I'm more confused now then when I began. I am further away from getting it. I can't seem to find the answer in the previous so I try to go deeper to the problem.

 

 

 

 

I can see how difficult it is to put this into words...to go backward in understanding. There is something inside me that goes backward too - I have used the metaphor of standing in a stream, facing downstream, yet walking backward upstream. That is just the description of the 'dynamic', not a discussion of exactly what it is that I seem to be tunneling backward into.

 

But when we get to a certain point, it does involve a tunneling backward into ourselves. We find that when we lose our judgment of everything and everybody, our vision gains clarity and we become 'as children' in some ways. The Nazarene, whom I see as an enlightened one, talked about the quality that children have that we must return to if we want to become enlightened. (He talked much more about individual enlightenment in the Nag Hammadi Gospels, as opposed to the normally used tome.) Those were the ones Constantine didn't want folks to see...they do not focus on Jesus being 'the intermediary' through which everyone must go to avoid a fiery hellpit. Perhaps that viewpoint helped control the hordes, I don't know.

 

But he does talk about returning to the child in our innocence; to weed those things out of our character which need to be weeded, to return to the Original Human Being. To me, there is a definite sense of 'going back to the beginning', or something like that. And it seems that is man's quest as well - going back to the beginning - trying to understand the Big Bang. This very question, who are we and where are we going?, seems to extend not only to the individual psyche but to the understanding of the universe as well. One being a microcosm, the other a macrocosm of the same thing. We are merely made of stardust, an offshoot of the sun, at our very basest physical component.

[suninmyeyes]

Meditate on my desires, see what desire in relation to the goal is blocking my progress and deprogram it or let it go, then plant the new desire alone and focus on it for a few days to make it a reality.

 

Think thats a good idea that has a chance of succeeding?

You could do that too.

 

What I meant is that with constant practise you learn to follow your intuition well, and clear the mind not necessary through thinking but on psychic level - that is why I reccomended taking on a constant practise daily of any technique of your choice and doing it.

Applying what you learn in daily life. This plus introspections is the medicine that does wonders.

Also maybe do a lot of physical work or and spend long time daily outdoors could help you. It just feels as the right antidote to your thinking.

Sorry if I am totally wrong and sound as if I am talking nonsense.

Just to let you know that this is something I used to struggle with till my early/mid twenties and it really was a big problem, for me. Untill I took some spiritual practies up and first time in my life did something consitently and still doing it daily .It changed my life totally ,to unimaginable extent.

However you may find something different that snaps you out of your current mindset.

Best of luck,

sun

Edited November 2, 2011 by suninmyeyes