Deity Yoga

[C T]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WtPrOE1JSk&feature=related

 

 

Shinzen Young gives a clear explanation on the practice of Deity Yoga in the Vajrayana Path.

 

 

 

 

 

_/\_

[Trunk]

An alternate pt of view is that deities are actual realized beings and that by being 'near' one your body learns and develops by proximity. Similarly w/ an enlightened teacher (in the physical).

[C T]

An alternate pt of view is that deities are actual realized beings and that by being 'near' one your body learns and develops by proximity. Similarly w/ an enlightened teacher (in the physical).

Very much so, Trunk. Good point actually...

 

Aspirations do often lead to embodiment. Which is why one's intent and motivation is quite vital in the process.

 

 

Thanks for contributing.

Edited November 2, 2011 by C T

[Lucky7Strikes]

I personally do not believe that such undertaking of another identity is a healthy end goal. It can easily lead to disillusionment of oneself as an emanation. However, as a stepping stone, which I get the hint from Shinzen, can be a powerful tool. But just as prone to many pitfalls of self grandeur.

[Jetsun]

I like the way he talks about westerners using more familiar deities as I find even though I am not Christian the image of Christ represents compassion and holyness far better than any Buddhist image simply because that archetype was drilled into my head when I was very young just through the culture I grew up in. I suspect using a familiar image would be far more effective than trying to import something from a different culture, the author Rob Preece talks about this issue quite a lot in one of his books about Buddhist Psychology about how Western Buddhism if it is to be more effective needs it's own familiar deities to replace the traditional Buddhist ones which are alien to the Western mind.

[C T]

I personally do not believe that such undertaking of another identity is a healthy end goal. It can easily lead to disillusionment of oneself as an emanation. However, as a stepping stone, which I get the hint from Shinzen, can be a powerful tool. But just as prone to many pitfalls of self grandeur.

Valid point. Reports of people misapprehending this practice are frequently heard.

 

Actually, if one incorporates fully the Noble 8-Fold Path into the practice, coupled with a sincere desire to adopt the Bodhisattvic ideals into one's activities, most if not all associated pitfalls can be avoided. Its crucial for spiritual development to keep one's body, speech and mind can be kept in check thru mindful awareness and learning to persistently direct one's attention towards embodying the truly virtuous qualities associated with buddhahood, or arahatship. Certainly, pride and various portrayals of holiness or divinity in an arrogant manner are fully discouraged if one were to be a sincere cultivator or practitioner of Deity Yoga.

Edited November 3, 2011 by C T

[Aaron]

I have a question related to this topic, so rather than start a new topic, I will just ask it here. How many people actually believe in the existence of deities as they have been defined by the Buddhist canon? I understand that most (many?) of the Buddhist in Asia have no problem understanding and believing this concept, but I think for most Westerners it's hard to understand the notion of deities, rather than a deity, hence the belief many Westerner's have that Buddhists worship Buddha.

 

Anyways, for those that have no problem with this concept, do you have any experiences where you have interacted with, or been able to sense the existence of these deities? I value experience more than philosophy in most cases.

 

Aaron

[三江源]

As I understand it deities and lands are how our minds experience the states arising at the unlocking of gates within our subtle bodies. Dwelling on deity is equivalent to focusing on a gate in order to unlock it.

 

As without, so within, as above, so below, type thing.

[三江源]

An alternate pt of view is that deities are actual realized beings and that by being 'near' one your body learns and develops by proximity. Similarly w/ an enlightened teacher (in the physical).

 

Exactly!

Poetry of it all. Mosaic tapestry we try to comprehend with literal senses and everyday minds.

[Pero]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

 

 

Shinzen Young gives a clear explanation on the practice of Deity Yoga in the Vajrayana Path.

 

No, he doesn't. He gives an explanation of his own ideas about Deity Yoga.

[C T]

No, he doesn't. He gives an explanation of his own ideas about Deity Yoga.

Quite sure a minority will find this an astute observation based on specific needs. Purity is good ~ after all, Deity Yoga is primarily concerned with generating and remaining in purity of body, speech and mind.

[C T]

I have a question related to this topic, so rather than start a new topic, I will just ask it here. How many people actually believe in the existence of deities as they have been defined by the Buddhist canon? I understand that most (many?) of the Buddhist in Asia have no problem understanding and believing this concept, but I think for most Westerners it's hard to understand the notion of deities, rather than a deity, hence the belief many Westerner's have that Buddhists worship Buddha.

 

Anyways, for those that have no problem with this concept, do you have any experiences where you have interacted with, or been able to sense the existence of these deities? I value experience more than philosophy in most cases.

 

Aaron

Perhaps Pero may be able to enlighten us on the purer aspects of what Deity Yoga actually is?

 

You might find this explanation of this teacher's version of Deity Yoga helpful in the meantime.

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/A%20-%20Tibetan%20Buddhism/Authors/Lama%20Tharchin/Deity%20Yoga/deity%20yoga.htm

 

And this short but clear statement from Lama Thubten Yeshe basically saying the same thing as Shinzen Young albeit with less words - http://buddhism.about.com/od/vajrayanabuddhism/a/tantradeity.htm

 

Another explanation from a different source - http://www.rigdzindharma.org/deity-yoga-practice.html

Edited November 6, 2011 by C T

[Pero]

Quite sure a minority will find this an astute observation based on specific needs. Purity is good ~ after all, Deity Yoga is primarily concerned with generating and remaining in purity of body, speech and mind.

 

What Young is saying though is that anyone can achieve what Vajrayana Deity Yoga achieves by just imagining oneself as anything. Lama Yeshe is hardly saying the same thing.

[C T]

What Young is saying though is that anyone can achieve what Vajrayana Deity Yoga achieves by just imagining oneself as anything. Lama Yeshe is hardly saying the same thing.

Is there a slight contempt for Shinzen Young being detected here?

 

Perhaps you would like to share your understandings on Deity Yoga instead of restricting your input to such obscure, minimalist declarations.

 

At least we can then learn something useful.

[Pero]

Is there a slight contempt for Shinzen Young being detected here?

No, don't know why you think that.

 

Perhaps you would like to share your understandings on Deity Yoga instead of restricting your input to such obscure, minimalist declarations.

Well frankly I'm really not too keen about it since I could say something wrong too. Simply I guess you could say that it's a method to purify impure vision into pure vision. This method is first transmitted by a teacher who has had contact with the Sambhogakaya deity and then subsequently by teachers who at least experienced some signs of achievement of the practice. So the reason why visualizing oneself as just anything won't have the same effect is that there is no transmission going back to a realized teacher and those visualizations aren't Sambhogakaya deities but complete fabrications of the mind. Maybe through inventive visualizations you could realize emptiness of self but Vajrayana goes beyond that (Buddhahood).

 

Also, creation stage is accompanied by completion stage, without which Buddhahood cannot be achieved and he makes no mention of it.

[Birch]

Can I jump in?

 

Yes I can :-)

 

Alright.

 

My very personal (from practice) understanding is that the self-identification of a deity is intended to cultivate specific attributed qualities - not necessarily to show as Shinzen suggests that the person(ality) is arbitrary but to provide a template for equilibrium (my suggestion). As is 'feeding the demons' (counter-practice IMO/IME to 'forgiveness').

 

Which is also why K-related practices require a structure and that orbits are micro-cosmic before anything else.

 

My 2cts.