Birch Posted November 4, 2011 There is no longer any doubt in my mind about mind/body unity. Fine enough. So, remains for me the issue of "spirit". I am currently finding myself unsatisfied by my own vague notions of "spirit" and i do not currently have experiences that i could point to with certainty and say "yes, this was spirit" rather than a type of consciousness or my imagination or ?? Perspectives? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) There is no longer any doubt in my mind about mind/body unity. Fine enough. So, remains for me the issue of "spirit". I am currently finding myself unsatisfied by my own vague notions of "spirit" and i do not currently have experiences that i could point to with certainty and say "yes, this was spirit" rather than a type of consciousness or my imagination or ?? Perspectives? Even most masters won't say much about spirit or shen cause they don't fully understand it. So take what you hear here with a grain of salt or seven... I won't even begin to pretend i know anything about spirit, although i know what people say about spirit in a couple different systems, i also know that i shouldn't try to say anything about it. But how did i know that? with intuition? so maybe that is spirit. Or maybe its the chili i ate for lunch. who can say, not me Edited November 4, 2011 by anamatva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted November 4, 2011 An ancient character for Spirit (Shen). What do you feel? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted November 4, 2011 Nonpsychologically aware. Immediately aware. Selflessly aware. Aware. Awake. Open. Unborn. Undying. Living awareness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted November 4, 2011 Nonpsychologically aware. Immediately aware. Selflessly aware. Aware. Awake. Open. Unborn. Undying. Living awareness. Pretty much. I have equated it to the awareness as well. Kundalini, spirit, shen, conscious consciousness, awareness, I can't find any discernable differences. If it is something other than that, then I have yet to become aware of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted November 4, 2011 I think if you move the awareness away from your eye's to other parts of the body, it may become obvious on an experential level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted November 4, 2011 Exactly what it is I am not sure but you can witness human spirit very easily in young children who live mostly through their spirit which naturally expresses itself through play without any contrivance, that spirit is still within each of us I am absolutely certain of that it just gets covered up. The main description of my own spirit I can come up with is that it is soft and gentle without being weak or powerless, it may be childlike in it's wish to express itself but it's not childish in the sense that it is immature or regressed. Listen to the songs or Icaros that Shamen sing as they are a call to your spirit and to all spirits in the world, connect to the vibe and nature of the songs and you will learn about the nature of spirit as they are usually gentle songs but immensely powerful at the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted November 4, 2011 Thinking about this subject a bit more I'm not sure spirit is just pure awareness as it seems to have a character or natural expression depending on what form it manifests from the Tao, for example the spirits of different animals and plants have different characteristics, the monkey for example has a much more playful spirit than a horse, the Cat has a prouder more refined spirit than a dog, there are trees with strong noble spirits like the old tall trees in the forest and then there are trees with more welcoming spirits like fruit trees. Plant medicine largely originated from the idea that you ingest part of the spirit of the plant to strengthen your own so you embody certain spirit qualities depending on the illness, the same with Shamanic power animal work you embody the spirit of the particular animal whose strengths you require at that particular time. So for me spirit seems to have character and qualities depending on what form it is expressed. Human spirit shares some qualities with the monkey in that it is naturally playful but it is more free, potentially anyway when we strip away the conditioning which covers it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted November 4, 2011 Jetsun, this is the one I mean! I don't mean undifferentiated "big shen" (I figure) The symbol reminded me of a tai-chi, a snake and a vine :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lienshan Posted November 4, 2011 Thinking about this subject a bit more I'm not sure spirit is just pure awareness as it seems to have a character or natural expression depending on what form it manifests from the Tao, for example the spirits of different animals and plants have different characteristics, the monkey for example has a much more playful spirit than a horse, the Cat has a prouder more refined spirit than a dog, there are trees with strong noble spirits like the old tall trees in the forest and then there are trees with more welcoming spirits like fruit trees. Which characteristics does this fish spirit have? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 4, 2011 I have always considered that all thinking life forms have both "soul" and "spirit". I equate the soul to our un(sub)conscious mind. I equate the spirit to be personal Chi, or, live force. Our spirit can interact with the spirit of all other living life forms as well as what I call 'universal Chi'. When a life form dies its spirit (life force, energy) returns to 'universal Chi' with the potential to be reused in some other life form. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted November 4, 2011 Interesting thoughts Mr MH. I am equally interested in why some "paths" would seemingly prefer to go straight to undifferentiated consciousness while (to me at least) either throwing out the idea of an individual's spirit or just bypassing it straight into emptiness. It seems to me to be a similar step to the exhortion of ego destruction and "you are not your body" type teachings. I mean clearly, we are incarnate (as the zen Master would prove to you by stamping on your toe) and we have (for all of its conditioning) a personality. I agree with your idea on soul. Jetsun, i liked your suggestions very much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted November 4, 2011 Which characteristics does this fish spirit have? That's a bowl not a fish, unless you are making some point about everything originating from one spirit, yet that concept doesn't tell you much about the way the Tao expresses itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted November 4, 2011 and that's why I do the horse stance what is passion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
realfastcat Posted November 4, 2011 If we are going to consider Zen is this thread.(ummm Already have) May as well say "If everything is everything and anything is anything" "And the "spirit of in of itself"" And how really it is just this "No-Thing-Ness" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lienshan Posted November 4, 2011 That's a bowl not a fish, unless you are making some point about everything originating from one spirit, yet that concept doesn't tell you much about the way the Tao expresses itself. It's the first ever expression of a spirit I've seen ... one of the beautiful potteries of the Yangshao culture. It's said: The valleyspirit never dies! Maybe I should view this a bowlspirit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted November 4, 2011 Here is a topic from a while back, trying to determine what Shen is. There were some very good and helpful contributions. I like Jetsun's descriptions here too.. the "uncarved block" so to speak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted November 4, 2011 Here is a topic from a while back, trying to determine what Shen is. There were some very good and helpful contributions. I like Jetsun's descriptions here too.. the "uncarved block" so to speak. the link is a great thread, thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted November 4, 2011 Here soooooooooo close what is passion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted November 4, 2011 soooooooooo close what is passion? What is dancing with an elephant? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted November 4, 2011 Fine, where is passion and where does it come from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiraltao Posted November 4, 2011 Fine, where is passion and where does it come from? [rambling thought pattern]At this point i would say heart, not the physiological one, but there brings up where does heart energy come from? ...and I am not sure. I have thought of spirit as "energy with an involuntary personality" not saying it is correct, though. If that even makes sense to anyone. Wonder where our spirit began? Each of us are the same yet unique. We all have DNA. Is DNA mortal? From my understanding, yes.[/rambling thought pattern] :wacko: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted November 4, 2011 do people want to become greatest rock stars ever from thinking about their heart? what was the first heart I wonder... hmm... THIS CALLS FOR MEDITATION Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) Jetsun, this is the one I mean! I don't mean undifferentiated "big shen" (I figure) The symbol reminded me of a tai-chi, a snake and a vine :-) I wasn't going to tell you what "spirit" is. I was waiting for you to define what "spirit" is in your initial thinking. I think you have just told me.... Edited November 5, 2011 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted November 5, 2011 Maybe spirit is a de container; each giving shape to the other. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
