"Spirit" - what is it?

[Aaron]

I'm with you here Kate. I'm not certain what the spirit is. Perhaps its the part of us that is part of the dharma cycle, perhaps it's an actual third part of us that exists (which I thought was true until I had some recent experiences). Now I only see myself as me. Me is not just what I think but my physical body as well, they aren't separate. Since I've begun to understand this on a deeper level, my thoughts about spirit have been diminished greatly.

 

If my ego self is gone with this body, I am still a part of this world and I have no doubt that I am living through my own existence and yours as well, even if I'm not consciously aware of yours. I know it's trippy, but it's essentially why I don't fear death or dying, because I know as long as you or anyone else exists on this earth or universe, then I will continue to experience this world. Maybe that's why Buddha was so dead set on trying to release everyone from suffering, because on some level he understood until everyone passes on, we will all be right back here, maybe not as "us", but as "we/me".

 

Aaron

 

Edit- *shudder*... I didn't mean to bring up Buddha on a Taoist discussion board, but I got the sense this was more than simply a Taoist discussion. Please forgive my transgression.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Twinner

[Birch]

"Since I've begun to understand this on a deeper level, my thoughts about spirit have been diminished greatly."

 

This is what I'm referring to.

 

I don't know how to explain it but i personally take issue with a "path" that drops one off at the station without ever having got on the train. So I'm still wondering...

[ChiDragon]

"Since I've begun to understand this on a deeper level, my thoughts about spirit have been diminished greatly."

 

This is what I'm referring to.

 

I don't know how to explain it but i personally take issue with a "path" that drops one off at the station without ever having got on the train. So I'm still wondering...

 

What is this deeper level that you are thinking of...???

[三江源]

.

Edited October 3, 2014 by cat

[Protector]

when you have a lot of jing, you don't need sex

when you have a lot of chi, you don't need food

when you have a lot of shen, you don't need sleep

 

hmmmmm

[ChiDragon]

when you have a lot of jing, you don't need sex

when you have a lot of chi, you don't need food

when you have a lot of shen, you don't need sleep

 

hmmmmm

 

Really......????

People still believing in this kind of stuff...???

[Bubbles]

Really......????

People still believing in this kind of stuff...???

 

Dear ChiDragon,

 

Why being so surprised?? Don't you know some very materialistic people still don't believe they have a spirit ? Unbelievable? ..uh?

 

hehehe...

[Protector]

let's just say, I don't need some creepy oil

[Birch]

What is this deeper level that you are thinking of...???

Well, thinking about beliefs about this stuff. I know the call is to "not think" but it's unfortunate. I'm a bit of a contrary horse:-) Every time i hear something like that i want to do the opposite:-)

 

Same goes with "acceptance" and other hand-me downs:-)

[doc benway]

So I was training today (a particularly productive day) and when standing in bagua zhan zhuang

 

 

 

 

I found myself looking at a tree.

A young oak with a twisting character. and I was struggling to feel the posture, and then the tree helped me understand the posture. Then I started thinking about the spirit of the tree and then I started thinking about the spirit of "me," the spirit of human. And I sort of had a bit of an insight into my spirit relative to the tree and the similarities and differences sort of helped me feel what "spirit is" a bit better. I'm not sure if I should try to put more words to it than that.

It was cool.

It was a good illustration of what we were talking about in the other thread -K-, the theory vs the thing.

Or as Krishnamurti would say, the image vs the thing.

PS - that's me in the picture

....

JK

[Taomeow]

PS - that's me in the picture

 

Wow! What a yao! Meow!

[Marblehead]

PS - that's me in the picture

....

JK

 

And that's the tree in the background, right?

[Birch]

Interesting post Steve. I wonder what the tree-spirit figured when it saw a human spirit trying to be something the tree wasn't:-)

I'm thinking of the reflective attribution of consciouness to things that are not oneself i.e. because i (be)hold this tree in consciousness it "must" therefore also have/be consciousness. It's IMO a matter of attribution (again) and if you've ever shouted at a computer you'll know what i mean :-)

 

I'm not referring to that kind of "spirit". I'm referring to the individual spirits of the tree and the human (in this case) respectively. You know, the ones that people "meet" in various circumstances.

[deci belle]

[lienshan]

Dear ChiDragon, Why being so surprised??

 

Don't you know some very materialistic people still don't believe they have a spirit ? Unbelievable? ..uh?

The belief in spirits was the subject of Mozi's (470-391 BC) book 8

[Taomeow]

[Marblehead]

[al.]

How about the Hun and the Po?

 

Talk of Shen is dependent on what angle you take, where you choose to look at it. Break it down into numbers and it is more simple- at base level there is only 1. The interconnectivity of every single little thing. At second level there is 2- polarity, Yin Yang, Heaven & Earth, matter and awareness. The love affair between the 2 creates a third thing- infinite potentiality- Qi- 3. Everything can be seen as a dance between this trinity- Yin-Qi-Yang, Earth-Humanity-Heaven, Jing-Qi-Shen, Matter-Energy-Awareness.

 

So what can be termed awareness is Shen. But we don't want to forgot the number 1 thing- 'the three are actually one'. On this plane, matter and awareness create each other, light particles have physicality to them, darkness extinguishes colour from objects, literally. So our own awareness is a composite of Yin and Yang also- it is said we have 3 spirits and 7 souls. Three Hun and seven Po. The Hun are our Heaven bound spirits, the Po are our Earth bound souls. But why 3 and 7? What meaning can you find in these numbers?...

 

When pondering this I remember an old saying (can't think where from)-

God slept in the rocks,

God dreamt in the plants,

God awoke in the animals,

God realised himself in humans

[ChiDragon]

Spirit is a very powerful invisible force may be known as a "spiritual force". Its effect is invincible when it was enforced. Whether one believes it or not, it doesn't even have to make any sense....

 

 

My 2 cents worth.

[Birch]

[Birch]

The belief in spirits was the subject of Mozi's (470-391 BC) book 8

Well this is exactly what I'm referring to. If i understand the writing properly what is being said is that a belief in spirits is what is important. Not the truth of them.

It also looks like the recording of events is considered proof enough of their occurrence.

[doc benway]

Does any one practice talking to trees and bushes and flowers "as if" they understood you?

Talk? No, I don't think vocalizing really is necessary.

Communicate? Yes.

It's disturbing to me how we exploit trees and plants for our entertainment.

We plant a variety of species in our gardens and landscapes, generally with no thought whatsoever other than visual appeal or some other benefit that we may derive.

We cut and groom and fertilize and weed and I wonder whether we genuinely consider anything other than our own pleasure.

I wonder if anyone ever considers whether our haphazard arrangement of plant life is conducive to a healthy and beneficial arrangement for the plants and trees themselves.

They seem to cry out sometimes.

[Birch]

I restrict my interaction in this regard to only things that contain a life force. But yes, there are people who extend this to things like old volkswagens.

Which makes sense to me.

[Birch]

Great post TaoMeow!

Hehe, I've often wondered why some "spiritual" folks take up with the old-school language;-)

More seriously, IMO your post is very pointed in a direction that i find interesting.

[noelle]

How about the Hun and the Po?

 

Talk of Shen is dependent on what angle you take, where you choose to look at it. Break it down into numbers and it is more simple- at base level there is only 1. The interconnectivity of every single little thing. At second level there is 2- polarity, Yin Yang, Heaven & Earth, matter and awareness. The love affair between the 2 creates a third thing- infinite potentiality- Qi- 3. Everything can be seen as a dance between this trinity- Yin-Qi-Yang, Earth-Humanity-Heaven, Jing-Qi-Shen, Matter-Energy-Awareness.

 

So what can be termed awareness is Shen. But we don't want to forgot the number 1 thing- 'the three are actually one'. On this plane, matter and awareness create each other, light particles have physicality to them, darkness extinguishes colour from objects, literally. So our own awareness is a composite of Yin and Yang also- it is said we have 3 spirits and 7 souls. Three Hun and seven Po. The Hun are our Heaven bound spirits, the Po are our Earth bound souls. But why 3 and 7? What meaning can you find in these numbers?...

 

When pondering this I remember an old saying (can't think where from)-

God slept in the rocks,

God dreamt in the plants,

God awoke in the animals,

God realised himself in humans

 

This trinity system is different with counting system of Zhouyi (易經), the binary system.

The oldest records of this thrinity system is "Chon-Bu-Kyung" inscribed on the rock founded in Myo-Hyang mountain.

this trinity system and culture was originated from the cultural belt who lived far north east asia people(northern territory upper the great wall) who had totemism of bear, three leg birds三足烏 , three Gods三神, heaven, earth, man.

 

 

and....

 

"Spirit"

 

....can't say simply in words.... : )

Edited May 28, 2012 by noelle