Solving the world's overpopulation problems?

[Aaron]

This topic has been on my mind lately. I was going to give my opinion, but I'd rather hear other people's solutions... also does anyone think the Gate's conspiracy regarding vaccines and sterilization might not be as inhumane as it appears, given the potential for another mass extinction?

 

Aaron

Edited November 5, 2011 by Twinner

[Protector]

Perfect the space travel

[Jetsun]

I think the earth is a self regulating organism, if humans become overpopulated I expect some forces will come into play which will regulate their number. In my experience when humans interfere too much with natural processes it causes more problems than it solves, so maybe we shouldn't worry too much about it.

[Encephalon]

It's not really a "solution," but the depletion of the petroleum supply in the next 1 to 2 decades means an end to industrial agriculture. Even with quality topsoil (which is disappearing by the tons every day) available to turn oil into food,the limit of this planet's carrying capacity is around 2 billion, 5 billion less than what we have now. It would seem that our era of rapacious industrial capitalism comes with its own self-destruct device.

Hafta hand it to God... her poetic irony is breathtaking.

[joeblast]

I personally have plenty of faith in the nearly limitless creativity of man. It won't always be of pristine nature, but if there is one underlying thing in the Tao it is it's nearly never-ending capacity to procure solutions.

[Encephalon]

I personally have plenty of faith in the nearly limitless creativity of man. It won't always be of pristine nature, but if there is one underlying thing in the Tao it is it's nearly never-ending capacity to procure solutions.

 

Yep. And not so infrequently, the solution is hitting the reset button and mass extinction. There have been nine of them since life first appeared on earth 500+ billion years ago, and we're working our butts off for #10.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Encephalon

[joeblast]

Yeah, a splashdown of a significant sized rock into the ocean would cause quite a mixing that would bring a new ice age pretty quickly. Short of a blast from space that would cause drastic short term changes, we'll do just fine so long as we have some time to deal with issues, that is the key point. E.g. the whole peak oil concept, it is just not going to cause anything near like a mass extinction. Fatalists get proved wrong time and again on these things and this one's little different. if we truly do start running out of oil, then those dudes I used to know making oil cleaning and filtration systems will really be making some big bucks! although last I was in any proximity it was cooking oil that they were turning from a deep brown to the new-like colored transparent yellow. They were pretty much testing any oil they could get their hands on, the nastier and dirtier the better. I'm not saying we'll all get by unscathed, of course, but if I was betting, I know where I'd place my money.

[doc benway]

It seems to me that human population is artificially elevated by technological advancement.

We have usurped Earth's ecology with our intellectual prowess.

The question is, can technology solve the problems it creates indefinitely?

Or will we ever be able to let go of our addiction?

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Stigweard]

I know ... lets pack up all the "undesirables" on ships, scoot em off to Mars and we will call the new colony "New Australia".

 

 

As always humanity won't respond until their backs are against the wall and the sword is above their heads

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Aaron]

I don't think fossil fuels are going to play as big a part as many do in society's decay. I don't even think it's something that will occur quickly or overnight, but rather gradually and it will be a result of overpopulation and lack of basic resources to provide for the population, in particular food. Modest projections that I've read predicted something like 10 billion people by 2046. At that time the majority of the world will be living at around the same level of poverty as mexico right now. A few pockets of western society will still maintain a higher quality of life, but it will be more akin to living along the lines of what is considered poverty level in the states now. The poor in the western world will be living very much as rest of the world, in other words shanty towns and scraping by each day. Infant mortality will most likely be high, perhaps even as high as 25% die before the age of 2. And childhood mortality will be about the same with a high number of children dying from disease before they reach their teens.

 

Now with this knowledge in our minds and 35 years to plan for it, one would think that we would get off our asses and try to make some real changes in the way we're living life. I blame much of this on religious organizations and capitalism. The first fights against any form of birth control or population control and the latter is so bent on making money that they aren't willing to back any changes that might impact the bottom dollar. Of course in 35 years their bottom dollar will be nearly non-existent, because the majority of people will be unable to afford luxuries, so it would seem to me, that it would be in the corporate interest to try and help with coming up with a solution.

 

I think the easiest and most practical solution is to actively slow down population growth. This doesn't mean that we become a police state per se, but rather that we place limits on the number of children a person can have, that number being 1. If a person has more than one child, they would be guilty of a crime (yes it would be a crime to have more than one child). The circumstances of course would have to be taken in to account, but generally there should only be one child per person (not couple). So if a man goes out and gets a woman pregnant, then that's his one child. If he does it again, he would be guilty of a crime.

 

I know it sounds draconian and many people might think it will destroy family values, but think about it, what kind of family values are we going to have in 35 years, when we're sending our kids out to scour the garbage dumps for items we can use or sell, while we do whatever we can to provide for them so that they can eat that day? I'm thinking having one child who can live a happy, safe, and healthy life, is far better than having five who suffer in poverty.

 

That's my 2-cents at least.

 

And yes we need to give up on fossil fuels. I don't have a car anymore and if I do end up buying transportation again, it'll be scooter or smart car, because I don't want to have my hands dirty, knowing I could've done something to help out and didn't.

 

One idea I had to help diminish environmental impact and stimulate growth was to lower the average work week to 30 hours. This would require companies to hire more people and also reduce traffic and help stimulate economic growth through providing new jobs.

 

Aaron

Edited November 6, 2011 by Twinner

[Cat Pillar]

The problem is : The inhabitants from Earth are the cast out from Mars.

 

Sure did the Martians a lot of good.

 

I won't even pretend to have a solid opinion on the overpopulation issues. I'm not nearly wise enough to think of a solution.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Once again: Simple:

 

government stops wasting money on military to secure oil abroad and pretending to fight drugs

 

puts that money to growing hemp everywhere rain falls - along highways, between houses, previously unusable land becomes usable when hemp is grown on it, so, ev-e-ry-where..

 

instead of coming up with useless jobs to employ people, employ them in harvesting and processing hemp ethanol (hemp produces, literally, 10 times the amount of ethanol per acre than corn, plus it harvests 3 times a year)

 

all the land that was previously useless can now be used to grow food

 

Follow wisdom of Taoism

 

..

Edited November 6, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Encephalon]

Once again: Simple:

 

government stops wasting money on military to secure oil abroad and pretending to fight drugs

 

puts that money to growing hemp everywhere rain falls - along highways, between houses, previously unusable land becomes usable when hemp is grown on it, so, ev-e-ry-where..

 

instead of coming up with useless jobs to employ people, employ them in harvesting and processing hemp ethanol (hemp produces, literally, 10 times the amount of ethanol per acre than corn, plus it harvests 3 times a year)

 

all the land that was previously useless can now be used to grow food

 

Follow wisdom of Taoism

 

..

 

Well, I'm with you in spirit, and there's no question that hemp will be a huge crop in a post-industrial society, but there are enormous forces, political and economic, aligned against the utilization of hemp, some of them in unison with an anti-marijuana agenda. People, 21st century competition for the remaining resources is going to be a game of "The Lst Man Standing" and will make all previous resource wars look like minor skirmishes.

 

There has been talk for decades about simply bribing the energy and chemical companies with monopolies in solar power, sustainable agriculture, water desalinization and the like in the hopes that they don't take down the rest of the planet with them.

 

They ain't interested.

[Aaron]

Once again: Simple:

 

government stops wasting money on military to secure oil abroad and pretending to fight drugs

 

puts that money to growing hemp everywhere rain falls - along highways, between houses, previously unusable land becomes usable when hemp is grown on it, so, ev-e-ry-where..

 

instead of coming up with useless jobs to employ people, employ them in harvesting and processing hemp ethanol (hemp produces, literally, 10 times the amount of ethanol per acre than corn, plus it harvests 3 times a year)

 

all the land that was previously useless can now be used to grow food

 

Follow wisdom of Taoism

 

..

 

That's a short term solution. It might help for one or two centuries, but what happens when we finally have more people than the additional crops can support? For me the natural and practical solution is to institute some kind of population control that will allow the human race to diminish its numbers humanely and sustain itself for the long term.

 

Keep in mind that scientists have been saying for awhile that in the next few decades it's highly likely that they will be able to slow down aging dramatically, so what then, we have people that can live 200-400 years, but not enough food to feed them? At that point I think you'll essentially have a lottery for who is able to have children and who isn't. I really wouldn't want to live in that kind of society myself, but it's the governments and corporations that actively dictate the flow of society, people haven't been in charge for centuries.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Ironically I will be living in that society, just not as Aaron. At least that's what I believe. Maybe the new me, having grown up with those kinds of restrictions will be less inclined to believe it's screwed up.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Twinner

[ralis]

I personally have plenty of faith in the nearly limitless creativity of man.

 

That statement sums your objectivist Ayn Rand world view. Your statement is the sum of 'The Fountain Head' and 'Atlas Shrugged' which barely classify as literature. Further, her world view is one of Social Darwinism.

 

It won't always be of pristine nature, but if there is one underlying thing in the Tao it is it's nearly never-ending capacity to procure solutions.

 

Your personification of the Tao is an error in anthropocentric thinking. To project human traits such as the ability to solve problems onto the Tao is an untenable argument.

 

Your use of the term "procure" sounds like a business transaction in which the Tao bends to your will for whatever you desire, in exchange for money.

 

The Tao is about balance and humans are of no consequence and may pass into extinction along with the other millions of extinct species.

Edited November 6, 2011 by ralis

[Encephalon]

Effective, long-term solutions to overpopulation haven't changed. Poverty eradication is the best, cost-effective solution; insuring that people have access to adequate food and water, clothing, shelter, and medical care and the means to a dignified way of life (I'm almost quoting the UN Charter of Human Rights here). The cost up front has always been a fraction of the price paid in human carnage, but the planet is still under Darwinian rule, so don't expect any massive changes soon.

 

I fail to see how criminalizing childbirth beyond a one-child policy is not a measure of a police state. A well organized global police state could solve a lot of problems, including overpopulation, but it is unlikely that anyone except for authoritarian personalities swoons over the prospect of global dystopias.

[ralis]

Effective, long-term solutions to overpopulation haven't changed. Poverty eradication is the best, cost-effective solution; insuring that people have access to adequate food and water, clothing, shelter, and medical care and the means to a dignified way of life (I'm almost quoting the UN Charter of Human Rights here). The cost up front has always been a fraction of the price paid in human carnage, but the planet is still under Darwinian rule, so don't expect any massive changes soon.

 

I fail to see how criminalizing childbirth beyond a one-child policy is not a measure of a police state. A well organized global police state could solve a lot of problems, including overpopulation, but it is unlikely that anyone except for authoritarian personalities swoons over the prospect of global dystopias.

 

With deregulation of the commodities market which allows investment bankers and hedge funds to speculate on any food commodity at a wider margin such as 10-1 as opposed to 1-1 before deregulation is an insane policy. Before deregulation, a commodities speculator must take delivery of the physical commodity, even if the futures contract expires at zero. Commodities speculation was only used by farmers, production facilities, airlines and fleets that needed to lock in a future price many months in the future. Now, Wall Street brokers only paper trade at the higher margin, while producing nothing but greed and more expensive food stuffs that many on this planet can't afford.

Edited November 6, 2011 by ralis

[ATMA]

The only question you need to answer within yourself is what you think happened in roswell new mexico.

 

And regardless of that.

 

The only thing you have to remember is that the world is the way it is because somebody wants it this way.

[ralis]

The only question you need to answer within yourself is what you think happened in roswell new mexico.

 

And regardless of that.

 

The only thing you have to remember is that the world is the way it is because somebody wants it this way.

 

 

Who?

[ATMA]

Who?

 

I don't know, is it you?

[Encephalon]

The only question you need to answer within yourself is what you think happened in roswell new mexico.

 

And regardless of that.

 

The only thing you have to remember is that the world is the way it is because somebody wants it this way.

 

You got the third line right, but the rest is

Edited November 6, 2011 by Encephalon

[ATMA]

absolute doodie

 

I like you.

I'm not one for news either. I prefer to focus only inwardly and in my immediate vicinity.

 

The past and the future are the motar and bricks which compose the wall of ego separating us from everything.

Interior cells are dark as hell.

Ommmmmm...

[lazy cloud]

You got the third line right, but the rest is

Or some fine compost? Which will come in handy for the Folks willing to take some personal responsibility and start producing their own produce.

Shit, I know that sounded redundant. Horses will once again become valued partners?

Future wars over water?

 

I do respect these posts:Especially the contributions from ralis and Encephalon.

Cooperatives, Intentional communities, Where ever you are remember this> United We Stand , Divided We Fail.

We Live In Interesting Times!

The future Low-Tech Revolution?!

Edited November 6, 2011 by lazy cloud