Holographic? Quantum Mechanics? Buddhism? What is real and what isn't?

[Aaron]

Hi guys and gals,

 

I start this a little tongue in cheek, because I would like to have a discussion where people can discuss what they think reality is, without having to prove that they're right and someone else is wrong. For the sake of this thread, I'd like to start off with people explaining how they see or understand reality, and let it go from there.

 

First off, I've been thinking about the nature of reality for awhile now, and although I could grasp the fundamentals of a lot of what people were saying about the Holographic Universe, Quantum Mechanics, and even the Buddhist view on reality, it was still a bit confusing when I tried to understand these things in a practical sense, in fact it was overwhelming, so I decided the effort wasn't really worth the time it took to study them.

 

Recently, with my new anime craze, I started watching a show called "Noein" which goes very in depth into the quantum mechanics view of reality, causality, and the phenomena of dreaming and such. It got me thinking about these topics again and I really wanted to have the chance to talk to others, who might be interested in these topics, that could also possibly explain their own views regarding these things.

 

My recent interest in Lucid Dreaming was influenced by "Noein" indirectly, because after watching the show and listening to their explanation of the theories of causality, string theory, and the multiverse, I wondered, could lucid dreaming be evidence that the Holographic Universe is in fact real? Could our consciousness, while we're asleep, be creating different dimensions that are only real for as long as we are there to perceive them? I know that's kind of weird to wonder, but after you start getting into the idea of quantum consciousness and mechanics, it isn't as weird as it sounds.

 

Anyways, that's enough out of me, just wanted to give you guys an idea of why I got interested all of sudden and open it up to others who might have something to say about the topic. The more specific and boring in detail you can be, the happier I'll be. I'm very interested in the nitty gritty of it all.

 

Aaron

 

edit- One thing I was thinking about was the notion of time following a wave pattern. My question was, if it is following a wave/spiral pattern, why? Wouldn't a wave pattern indicate that time is meeting some kind of resistance that's forcing it to follow a wave/spiral pattern? Perhaps it's space that's causing the resistance? Hence when we are examining those things that exist within space, we can only fully understand them within the confines of time, because the two need to interact for whatever is observed to exist? I know... another crazy question, but once you start thinking about these things, the crazy questions don't stop. I just hope someone can answer them.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Twinner

[doc benway]

Hi guys and gals,

 

I start this a little tongue in cheek, because I would like to have a discussion where people can discuss what they think reality is, without having to prove that they're right and someone else is wrong. For the sake of this thread, I'd like to start off with people explaining how they see or understand reality, and let it go from there.

 

On the one hand, I feel like there is nothing that can be thought that is ever the thing, reality; we think in images and symbols, representations of reality.

Paradoxically, is thought really separate from what is?

And am I separate from thought?

Am I separate from what is?

I haven't gotten much past there yet...

 

I really have no idea what the hell is going on.... but I like it!

[Birch]

Oh NICE!

 

Good topic Twinner :-)

 

Righto, my take is to not confound reality with (all) models of reality and/but to realise what our models do to reality (given, last time I looked, we were part of it:-)/it. So there is this 'is' idea which it seems many would like to lay claim to. I suppose that might be part of your question? Personally, I have to seriously wonder why anyone in their right minds would want to define it (reality) due to the huge responsibility that that places upon them.

 

To borrow and (badly) paraphrase - the question is real :-)

[SeriesOfTubes]

great definition of the mind within, I'm thinking this is one piece of the puzzle.

I've been huge Siegel fan lately. A huge thing I have taken away is that he basically states that the mind, brain and relationships are "primes" and basically irreducible. While no one knows what awareness or thoughts actually are, the brain—being physical down to the atom—is subject to the laws of newtonian mechanics, whereas awareness itself may not follow such laws at all, but rather those which govern energy at scales smaller than the atom (quantum mechanics etc). The implications are profound. Edited November 9, 2011 by SeriesOfTubes

[ATMA]

I don't think we can know. And somehow that is the point.

Anything is possible because we don't know.

Reality (not knowing) is a machine (law) which proves infinity (anything is possible).

I think you have to end up just choosing what you believe and once you really believe it then you have to just live it.

The most important thing for me is self progression. I want to be as ultimate as I can in every way I can.

The problem is there is so many unknown possibilities it is hard to make myself believe completely in this one even though I know it is the best possible reality.

This is why I seek spiritual discipline. I want the strength to self-confirm my desired belief in some form.

So I can give up the dance of uncertainty and begin on certainty even if it is fabricated by my mind.

We can't have truth without belief and that's somehow the rule. What we have is choice. You can choose to believe in something, and believing in it may or not make it into truth.

Lastly, you may or may not change your mind suddenly, at anytime, for no reason at all.

And so on and so on until you die.

 

 

Ommmmm.

Edited November 9, 2011 by ATMA

[zanshin]

I don't think you have to choose your beliefs, if you don't know stay open to possibilities. I have no idea, but it is fun to wonder about. Most things in nature do follow a wave/spiral pattern. What waveform does your brain make in lucid dreaming? We mostly understand straight lines, that's Newtonian physics. But even those outwardly linear things are filled with waves, spins, oscillations and vibrations.

[manitou]

I can take a metaphysical shot at what I think reality is.

 

I think reality is the golden stream of consciousness that pervades every man, woman and child on the planet; it pervades and animals plants and seemingly unsentient things, although my guess is that there's some degree of awareness in unsentient things too. This reality is a figure 8, it goes on and on and on. No beginning, no end. Even if there were an 'end' my suspicion is that the 'reality' would be flipped to another dimension if something were to happen to this dimension. Black hole vs. white dwarf, that sort of thing.

 

I agree with Aaron about the lucid dreaming phenomenon; I do think it's evidence of separate realities; a more quantum way of looking at things.

 

I think this golden reality has an Intent. I think the golden reality started within the fire of the sun, in this universe and in this time, and manifested to the outward its Intent. It intended for the world to be fiery. It intended for the world to cool. It intended for water and clouds and weather to be formed, it in itself is all of these and 'it' grows as the planet changes. It kept changing, evolving, manifesting. Life formed in the oceans, climbed up onto the shores. Kept changing, reaching upward. Always reaching for the sun, always REACHING FOR ITSELF in a complete goal of Oneness of expression. I see that Oneness of expression as being the expression of Love. Or magnetism, if you'd rather. Or gravity, one object to another in space.

 

There's just something about gravity. This odd force that longs for itself, that collects things to itself, that joins other things. It's this unseen force of gravity that is the glue; perhaps that is analogous with Love when it comes to human activity one to another.

 

It manifested through animals. It manifested through evolutionary means and at this point the manifestation is human in perhaps its most sophisticated forms (that are visible; no accounting for higher awarenesses and beings that we are unable to see at this point in our journey.)

 

Many Christians I know believe that eternity begins the day 'they' die. A bit arrogant, to my way of thinking. They've always been, they'll always be. But that doesn't fit into their frame of reference.

 

Where does it want to go from here? It wants everything to return to Oneness, from my perspective. The longer time goes on, the more we become technologically capable of all speaking with the same voice at the same time. We are finding out that we no longer 'need' the old ways of being ruled; now each and every man has his voice. And each and every man has his equal shot at financial success through the internet, if he chooses. We have no need for a king to supply our grain; we are all Gods in waiting, if only we could see that.

 

It wants us to remove the illusion of the false self that we accumulated around us from birth. It wants to manifest freely and purely through these bodies of ours, its vessels. It's not tied up with good and bad, religious or atheist; rather, it merely wants to express the pure human being from within.

 

I am guessing that those who truly find the golden essence are those who go within to find It. Even the Nazarene said 'Know Thyself', as does every other path in the world, it seems. I see It as being two-dimensional in its desires for us humans; we've evolved the brain to look without, to choose a structure, to go way out as far as possible within that construct. But as far out as our brains must go to develop our understanding (the understandings that have been built, generation by generation, each of us standing on the shoulders of our forefathers), our psyche must go an equal distance into self. We must look for our part in every disagreement, every disagreeable situation, and own up to our own deficiencies.

 

It is only be removing the dross of what we've been taught to believe, that we find the pony under the manure. and this process does take a very long time; I suspect it continues until the last Yeehaw!

 

When we find the pony, magically our perspective slightly shifts from one which is self-centered, to one that is 'us-centered'. We see all people as One, hardly a new idea. Actually, this is an idea that the indigenous Knew in their hearts and acted as one unit; it does seem to me that there is a necessary return (due to the pending collapse of just about every social structure we've known) to humanity looking out for humanity. The degree of unfairness that us imperfect humans have created around the world appears to be changing daily.

 

The Essence within each and every protester everywhere....is speaking loudly now. It wants Its freedom to express. Each and every soul has just the same amount of God-ness within it; however, I think about 99% of the world doesn't realize it yet.

 

My personal feeling is that if you took Buddhism, Yogi philosophy, Taoism, Christianity (the mature variety) and every other ism in the world (including Atheism) and backed up and looked at the essence of each, that the Oneness of all the paths makes itself apparent. They join in the room where all paths meet. (I like to think of TTB's as a room where all paths meet).

 

The room where all paths meet is the room of Love. Not sexual or selfish love. An agape type of love that extends to everything and everybody. Somehow, within this continuous 'weave' that It knits century after century, the Love is the glue, and Love is the lesson.

 

I think open-mindedness is the key. I think once one has pronounced oneself a Master, it would be tempting to close off the mind and feel that one's job is in giving answers. We'll never know all the answers. So, best be a student, always. It our minds are open and we are clinging to no preconceived notions, then quantum possibilities come into play. On the other hand, if our minds are pre-set with attitude, or a dislike of someone - then we cut off our own realm of possibility within which to act or react. Then, it 'has' to fit into what we already 'believe'.

 

Believe. I think beliefs are mindsets and just by their nature cut off all other options. When the pony is found, there is only Knowing. Belief, its artificial cousin, is no longer necessary. It sounds arrogant to speak of Knowing, but I do know from personal experience that folks that have found the place of Knowing have all found the same thing. they Know the same thing.

 

And it's nothing that can be communicated by words. It must be experienced by the individual alone, the journey of Self-Realization.

[Gerard]

Hi guys and gals,

 

I start this a little tongue in cheek, because I would like to have a discussion where people can discuss what they think reality is

 

What you create with your EGO-MIND.

 

I will offer you a little experiment to play with to prove you how powerful our ego-minds are:

 

1. Morning.

 

1.1 I am a spirit in a body capable of experiencing

dimensions beyond physical existence.

 

1.2 I have the ability to separate from my body, return safely, and

remember.

 

2. Evening.

 

2.1 Every morning I faithfully write dream key words in my notebook.

 

2.2 I recognize each morning as a fresh opportunity to hone my astral memory.

 

2.3 I attract dreams that help me achieve my goal of conscious out-of-body exploration.

 

However you can repeat all these phrases throughout the day as many times as you can; you are basically conditioning your mind in order to consciously operate in the yin phase of reality.

 

Trust me, after just few days you'll realise that your mind starts to create realities beyond the physical one and the line between yin (astral) and yang (physical body) will slowly fade.

 

I would also suggest using your mind to actively scan your entire body: skin (surface and deep inside), blood, internal organs, bones, tendons, joints, muscles, marrow, hands, limbs and the head and look for any signs of discomfort or points of rapid pulsating energy as they are blockages. Once you start working on them (dissolving or watch them and let them go) then Qi will start to flow naturally. This scanning activity and clearing of Qi blockages will accelerate the OBE experience.

 

We create reality.

[doc benway]

 

We create reality.

Don't forget the corollary to that -

reality creates us.

Both truths coexist.

[suninmyeyes]

'What is real what isnt?'

Who is asking? is the answer. Really .

[doc benway]

'What is real what isnt?'

Who is asking? is the answer. Really .

This

[julianlaboy]

Don't forget the corollary to that -

reality creates us.

Both truths coexist.

 

Kudos, there.

 

In that particular topic, I really like the works of Chilean biologist Humberto Maturana. He calls that "structural coupling". I know, fancy name for "we create the world and the world creates us", but I like Academia

We create our worlds because of what we are (mind-body). But, the world sets the conditions for us to be what we are and it is because of that that, in turn, it creates us. And it is not a "what came first" kind of question. It is a simultaneous process. At least, that's my opinion also...